What mycorrhizae is everyone using?

[dank.frank]

i think thats why the spore count on the popular mixes have plenty of trichoderma spores and other root enhancing goodies like kelp,humic/fulvic acids,etc..

i also remember reading studies of trichoderma inoculating roots faster then VAM & in some cases,counterproductive to mycorrhizae..specially on products with lower spore counts of the endo "some" want..

hence

I have considered this as well. For a long time I only used the BioVam, and upon suggestions made in these forums tried out the BioAg Vam.

I FULLY understand and have read inside and out countless articles that 100% coincide with the statements made above...

HOWEVER - I always seem to have better / healthier plants when using the BioVam - soil tilth is completely different. My observations and experiences have been opposite what I've have read and technically understand as being accurate, so I've been (probably much like the company selling something) adding more endo (ie BioAg Vam) to the BioVam blend...lol.

I've been using roughly 2 tbsp of each BioVam and BioAg for a little over 2 years now, which...

I suppose that gets to be a bit impractical and redundant - as in why use one product that is in theory killing / nullifying another - so I hope that better explains the why behind the "I catch flack for it" comment a bit better as well...

I'm not suggesting anyone -"use this in spite of science" - I'm simply relaying my experiences with various products that I have had positive and beneficial results with.



dank.Frank

 

[Microbeman]

I have considered this as well. For a long time I only used the BioVam, and upon suggestions made in these forums tried out the BioAg Vam.

I FULLY understand and have read inside and out countless articles that 100% coincide with the statements made above...

HOWEVER - I always seem to have better / healthier plants when using the BioVam - soil tilth is completely different. My observations and experiences have been opposite what I've have read and technically understand as being accurate, so I've been (probably much like the company selling something) adding more endo (ie BioAg Vam) to the BioVam blend...lol.

I've been using roughly 2 tbsp of each BioVam and BioAg for a little over 2 years now, which...

I suppose that gets to be a bit impractical and redundant - as in why use one product that is in theory killing / nullifying another - so I hope that better explains the why behind the "I catch flack for it" comment a bit better as well...

I'm not suggesting anyone -"use this in spite of science" - I'm simply relaying my experiences with various products that I have had positive and beneficial results with.



dank.Frank

The one comparison you probably have not tried is trichoderma by itself?

 

[dank.frank]

The one comparison you probably have not tried is trichoderma by itself?

You are fully correct on this, MM! It had crossed my mind - but I've not done so. You point is noted and understood.

It really is something I should do simply to gain a better understanding... Good point.



dank.Frank

 

[masshole61]

Clearly you guys are out of my league in microbe knowledge (I have none, reading and learning) , but have any of you heard of a company named www.ogbiowar.com ? I tried their foliar pack in my teas for my amateur outdoor grow and had surprising success, but I have nothing to compare it to.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Right on Frank!
SM
Please read what I write before commenting. Did you notice the other thread which I bumped?

Probably not, I've unsubscribed from quite a few of late. I've grown weary and tired of the BS, the assumptions being made and attacks that go with them, all the knees jerking and downright nastiness I get here. In fact, I hadn't made much of any comment there, only said that I personally feel it's not a good idea to discount the utility of Trichoderma; eg throwing infant child out with its bathwater, which I already know is in direct contradiction to the assertions of at least one "expert" here.

But I'll go ahead and expand here on what I've interpreted you and others to be saying with specific regard to the Trichoderma species that many vendors include in their mixes, and that message has been that they have no place in cannabis cultivation. I disagree. I feel that we will learn we must have the full suite/compliment of organisms to achieve what we want--a fully natural, sustainable, low impact cultivation method that works in concert with nature, not against her.

Has my interpretation been so wrong? I don't know, but if it has been so wrong and it's refuted in a thread that I've unsubscribed from, then I won't see it. No worries for me! I will still get my information, just elsewhere.

Why are my links contradictory to anything you've written? Or maybe I should be asking why you think those links were put up for you.

 

[Scottish Research]

What about General Hydroponics Subculture B & M?

I know people that swear by this.

Are these worth it?

R.Fortune

I guess that I will re-ask this question since my first post was ignored.





R.Fortune

 

[EclipseFour20]

I guess that I will re-ask this question since my first post was ignored.





R.Fortune

I've used both of them in the past. They are good, but IMHO not the best deal in town. But since we are talking minute dosages here, probably in the grand scheme of things--no biggy.

Probably more important to know when to use the right one at the right time. They have a feeding schedule that might help.

 

[Microbeman]

Probably not, I've unsubscribed from quite a few of late. I've grown weary and tired of the BS, the assumptions being made and attacks that go with them, all the knees jerking and downright nastiness I get here. In fact, I hadn't made much of any comment there, only said that I personally feel it's not a good idea to discount the utility of Trichoderma; eg throwing infant child out with its bathwater, which I already know is in direct contradiction to the assertions of at least one "expert" here.

But I'll go ahead and expand here on what I've interpreted you and others to be saying with specific regard to the Trichoderma species that many vendors include in their mixes, and that message has been that they have no place in cannabis cultivation. I disagree. I feel that we will learn we must have the full suite/compliment of organisms to achieve what we want--a fully natural, sustainable, low impact cultivation method that works in concert with nature, not against her.

Has my interpretation been so wrong? I don't know, but if it has been so wrong and it's refuted in a thread that I've unsubscribed from, then I won't see it. No worries for me! I will still get my information, just elsewhere.

Why are my links contradictory to anything you've written? Or maybe I should be asking why you think those links were put up for you.

If you actually read what I wrote, which seems to be a challenge for you, you will see that I recommend the use of Trichoderma. Trichoderma is great, just not combined at 1,000 to 1 or greater with endomycorrhizal spores, as it usually is. Why is this not good? What does Trichoderma eat? Do some reading and find out.

Darkman was even good enough to repeat the quote for you, yet it seemed to go unnoticed.

If anyone should be accused of knee jerk reactions,... well let's just say it is not me. I usually do not run off verbally motivated by one word in a discussion/statement.

As I said, please read what I actually write before commenting or before categorizing me into a group.

 

[DARC MIND]

guess its not only me eh
maybe frank can highlight,bold and up the font size

 

[BlueJayWay]

Originally Posted by Microbeman
The one comparison you probably have not tried is trichoderma by itself?

You are fully correct on this, MM! It had crossed my mind - but I've not done so. You point is noted and understood.

It really is something I should do simply to gain a better understanding... Good point.

I would really like to see or even do exactly that - I will probably look into sourcing trichoderma as a stand alone.

Several 'brands' of mycorrhizae have ran through my soil, completely unsure as to what extent they may/may not have survived or recolinized etc.

Several months ago I made a stable switch to consistenly innoculating the roots of each and every new clone/seed and only the one time at first sign of roots with BioAg's Vam-endo.

I've noticed a clear difference since that time with the size and amount and whiteness of roots and vigorous root growth. Quicker establishment of roots after transplants (and a need to transplant again sooner!). And a real nice soil structure, seems much more 'connected' and loamy, but this could be a more subjective observation than the others.

Anyways I'd like to attribute these qualities as benefits of using the vam-endo product based on my observations since using it, but there's so much at play in the soil and constant inputs via teas / mulching & them affecting and/or working with each other and so on...
.... there's billions of little guys down there, it can get overwhelming thinking about it & how fast the soil moves/lives!

 

[soursmoker]

Clearly you guys are out of my league in microbe knowledge (I have none, reading and learning) , but have any of you heard of a company named www.ogbiowar.com ? I tried their foliar pack in my teas for my amateur outdoor grow and had surprising success, but I have nothing to compare it to.

I was also wondering the same thing...
ordered 1 of each pack a while back before I read any of MM's stuff. stopped using it cuz it was just a hassle...

but dude claims to have the best stuff around...

 

[dank.frank]

guess its not only me eh
maybe frank can highlight,bold and up the font size

dank.Frank

 

[silver hawaiian]

I've heard anything from the RTI (xtreme gardening) guys is awesome.

Lots of friends using it with better inoculation speed/rate then great white and the Plant Success products they have been using previously...

symbios mycorrhizal inoculant I believe is what they're using. Think its being sold under "Pumpkin Pro" or something like that if not buying it in bulk.
RTI Granular Mykos in smaller quantities..


I believe it is the same spore MM mentioned - Glomus Intraradices

I've used Mykoz from RTI, and I'm with the original post - not terribly sure I've seen a significant difference.

On the other hand, I've been using Orca (from the Great White folks - who are also the Plant Success folk) for about 6-8 months now, and I seem to have greater success with Orca.

Great thread OrganicOzarks!

 

[OPT]

Trying great white in coco in a few weeks, heard nothing but good stuff about it.

OPT

 

[soursmoker]

MicrobeMan, do you have any knowledge of or experience with http://ogbiowar.com/ They have a foliar,root, and nute pack of supposed beneficials.

The nute pack contains both [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]g intraradices and g mossae which you have said are the only strains that colonize cannabis roots. But what about the other packs? and the other contents in the nute pack?

What do you think of this product?
[/FONT]

 

[MrSterling]

Sour my opinion might not be fair but here it is. I don't trust companies that try to move their products with gimmicky names in our industry. It sets warning lights off when I see "OG" or any other stoner keywords like that. They're appealing to a certain market and it's a market where the markup is usually immense. Their website looks like every hydro brand out there. Too many danger signs.

 

[soursmoker]

Sour my opinion might not be fair but here it is. I don't trust companies that try to move their products with gimmicky names in our industry. It sets warning lights off when I see "OG" or any other stoner keywords like that. They're appealing to a certain market and it's a market where the markup is usually immense. Their website looks like every hydro brand out there. Too many danger signs.

I agree completely. I am not down with the hydro scene whatsoever. I actually bought some of this product before it was a legit company, he was selling his stuff on ebay for a while before. He is on another site that would be frowned upon if I mentioned it. I don't frequent that site much at all anymore, but I remember the guy saying how awesome his porducts were and how much more pure it was than all the big name brands.

LOL every salesman talks their product up I know. I just wanted to see what opinions were on here of it or if anyone has used it...

I don't use it anymore lol my soil mix does my plants just fine, but I did an experiment on 4 clones today to see if I could notice any effects...

 

[soursmoker]

LOL I went on the other site for a sec and he is still selling his stuff on ebay and for a good amount cheaper than on his real site! I believe it is for only member of that site to hook them up, which IMO is cool. Still not sold on the product... I've got plenty of it, so i wont be purchasing anymore from him, but I'm curious to know what the real science is behind this product?

 

[OrganicOzarks]

MicrobeMan, do you have any knowledge of or experience with http://ogbiowar.com/ They have a foliar,root, and nute pack of supposed beneficials.

The nute pack contains both [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]g intraradices and g mossae which you have said are the only strains that colonize cannabis roots. But what about the other packs? and the other contents in the nute pack?

What do you think of this product?
[/FONT]

His foliar pack is a "broad spectrum" biological pesticide. Honestly if your grow has gotten to the point where you need this foliar pack then you have some major problems. You can get his foliar pack in bulk from India for about $35-$70/kilo depending on how much you buy at 1 time. I am sure they work, but if you need to use it you need to go back to growing kindergarden.

Integrated pest management is what you want to focus on. That way you may get an outbreak here or there, but nothing that you need a product intended for broad spectrum holocaust. Honestly though if you do a complete IPM system you should not get any out breaks. Although I still occasionally get something here or there, but nothing that kills a crop.

I will say that it is a much better alternative to chemicals. So in that respect it is a plus. Also everyone is at a different level of growing, and I can see this product being good for the "new to organic growing guy."

Now for large scale growing if you were purchasing straight from India I could see the benefits. If you had multiple warehouses, and tons of employees it would cut down the possibilities of losing a crop. Although if you are at that level you have much cheaper less invasive alternatives at your disposal.

As far as all of his other products go I would say that there is better money spent on other inputs. His other products are also available from India, and China at much lower rates if purchased 100kg at a time. With 1kg sample orders possible from most Companies.

I feel that Myc's are not a benefit for the indoor cannabis grower unless you are using a no-til soil bed. For us that use pots, and a plant is not in a pot any longer than 3 months I can't see it is worth the money. At best you get a 2 week inoculation, then you have another 2.5 months in the pot, but you are throwing some P at the plant to promote flower and it is going to make your Myc's go bye-bye.

I have yet to make 2+2=4 with Myc's indoors. Now used outdoors for an entire season, and I could see the benefit. I have one last sample from a Company I am going to try, and when it's gone I will not be using them any more. To each their own.

 

[soursmoker]

I feel you man, I won't be purchasing anymore Myc's for a very long time. I don't see the point. Was just curious. Guess he was just another bullshitter, trying to make some money.