What if there is no temp change between night and day?

[Maxyeild]

What if the steady temp in the room is 80F? I know people say a 10 degree change is good but what if it stays the same temp? This is during flowering cycle.......

Thanks in advance :smokin:

 

[Aaronponic]

The plant will pack on more resin and produce denser buds in an arid climate. If your temps stay a constant 80F, your buds may become airy.


No AC? Can't suck in cool air from outside?

 

[Mr Celsius]

The plant will pack on more resin and produce denser buds in an arid climate. If your temps stay a constant 80F, your buds may become airy.

Please provide me with proof of that. I've had HUGE (1 1/2 oz) colas with a mean temp of between 76-80. Please, explain to me how you came upon this false information.

Nothing will happen if your temps stay the same. Don't worry about it. 10 degree change is acceptable, more then that is bad.

 

[Aaronponic]

Please provide me with proof of that. I've had HUGE (1 1/2 oz) colas with a mean temp of between 76-80. Please, explain to me how you came upon this false information.

Nothing will happen if your temps stay the same. Don't worry about it. 10 degree change is acceptable, more then that is bad.

My understanding (I've been told by scientists) is that when the plant thinks that it is drying out due to an arid climate, to protect its future seeds, it will convert waters to resins and oils. If your temps are constantly high, this process will not occur in the same manner, or as effectively. Also, if the temps are at 80+F and you don't have Co2 and other cultural conditions optimal, growth will suffer.


It can be easily tested with an AC unit that can also add heat in your grow room. Raise a crop and maintain temps during the last week or 2 at 80F, day and night.


Due the same thing to a duplicate crop with day temps 78, night temps 58, let me know your results.


I have done this experiment, and my findings concur with the information afforded to me. An arid climate produces better yields, and colder temperatures produce more THC/gram but reduce overall yield. Humidity must be kept at the correct levels as well.



You have data that contradicts this aside from anecdotal cola size?

 

[Guest]

I have never had a lack of buddage from constant 80 degree temps. My pheno will produce well at 85 to 90 degrees. Remember some pheno's come from wamer places(or colder). The correct answer is the answer is yes or no. Root bound makes this pheno pack on resin.

 

[Mr Celsius]

My understanding (I've been told by scientists) is that when the plant thinks that it is drying out due to an arid climate, to protect its future seeds, it will convert waters to resins and oils. If your temps are constantly high, this process will not occur in the same manner, or as effectively. Also, if the temps are at 80+F and you don't have Co2 and other cultural conditions optimal, growth will suffer.

These scientists need to have their degrees revoked. The plant doesn't produce trichomes because of an arid climate, it produces them as a way to encourage animals to spread the seeds and protection from the suns harmful UV rays.

Atmospheric Co2 is 300-350 ppm on the average, if you can maintain that you're fine on the Co2 trip.

It can be easily tested with an AC unit that can also add heat in your grow room. Raise a crop and maintain temps during the last week or 2 at 80F, day and night.

I don't need to, I've both of those conditions, there was little difference in yields or quality.

Due the same thing to a duplicate crop with day temps 78, night temps 58, let me know your results.

So you're advising a 20 degree difference between night and day... riiight

I have done this experiment, and my findings concur with the information afforded to me. An arid climate produces better yields, and colder temperatures produce more THC/gram but reduce overall yield. Humidity must be kept at the correct levels as well.

Ok... so heres a little knowledge test for ya: What is the correct humidity for optimal plant growth? Also what is the optimal temps, Co2 ppm and watts per square foot of HID?

You have data that contradicts this aside from anecdotal cola size?

Your information is anecdotal as well, so that point is irrelevant for your own arguments.

I don't have particular data on cannabis and yield difference between temperature because there isn't any case studies being conducted; do you?. But you can talk with other experienced growers and you'll find that what you're saying is BS. Call me arrogant... but I'm very experienced and I refuse to buy what you're selling.

I highly suggest not listening to this guy. This isn't personal either, I just don't like people being tricked into thinking they're doing something wrong and causing themselves trouble by overthinking. Aggressively progressive.

 

[Maxyeild]

Thanks for the responses, see the room is CO2 injected maintain's a level of 1500ppm and when lights are off the the temp may drop a degree or 2 but that is it or it maintains the same temp. Guess it will be ok..........there is a portable AC in the room but, can't figure out how to drop the temps between night and day only has a steady temp setting..........

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Actually, no-one has ever proven why cannabis evolved to produce resins and oils...
There are a couple of favored or prominent theories, but theories they are and nothing more...

I've gotten fine yields and dense buds in 80 degree gardens, as well, Mr.C...

I like to drop temps some at night, but would not go far out of my way to make sure they drop... If there was no/little day to night difference, I'd shoot for more around 74 than 80, though...

One more thing... Arid means Dry... that's it... arid does not speak as to any condition other than humidity... You can have a perfectly arid 80 degree room in other words... I only mention this because the comment about aridness did nothing at all to answer the original question about temperature differential...

 

[Aaronponic]

These scientists need to have their degrees revoked. The plant doesn't produce trichomes because of an arid climate, it produces them as a way to encourage animals to spread the seeds and protection from the suns harmful UV rays.

Atmospheric Co2 is 300-350 ppm on the average, if you can maintain that you're fine on the Co2 trip.



I don't need to, I've both of those conditions, there was little difference in yields or quality.



So you're advising a 20 degree difference between night and day... riiight



Ok... so heres a little knowledge test for ya: What is the correct humidity for optimal plant growth? Also what is the optimal temps, Co2 ppm and watts per square foot of HID?



Your information is anecdotal as well, so that point is irrelevant for your own arguments.

I don't have particular data on cannabis and yield difference between temperature because there isn't any case studies being conducted; do you?. But you can talk with other experienced growers and you'll find that what you're saying is BS. Call me arrogant... but I'm very experienced and I refuse to buy what you're selling.

I highly suggest not listening to this guy. This isn't personal either, I just don't like people being tricked into thinking they're doing something wrong and causing themselves trouble by overthinking. Aggressively progressive.

The plant produces trichomes because the production of trichomes under certain conditions has caused those plants to create more offspring passing on the genes which cause trichome production to occur. The environmental factors which contribute to this, are many, and humidity, temps and other cultural conditions play a large part.

A plant has no idea whether or not an animal is going to domesticate it for its plant hairs.

Atmospheric Co2 may be 300-350 ppm, but running that PPM with temps above 80F will slow growth. If your PPMs are 300, you should keep your temps under 80F imo. And if your temp is 80+ you should keep your PPMs at 1500. Keeping your temps at exactly 80F with optimal cultural conditions will allow for rapid growth, but if any of those variable gets of of wack...growth suffers. And at 80F more so than at 75F. Which is hy I said, "at 80F your buds may become airy"...which is true.


I am advising if you want to test the idea of colder night temps to start with 78-58, as that is the largest drop you can really do to cannabis without hurting it imo. That will give you the largest comparison for difference. I don't waste energy trying to do that on normal crops. I do however keep my temps about 10F cooler at night than during the day. My daytime temps are 74 in the canopy, and mid 60s at night. Another reason for keeping your temps down, and also airflow good, is the distance lights can be placed from the canopy. I have colas grow to within an inch or 2 of the glass separator on my lights without suffering any burn. This would require much more ventilation to be possible at 80+F.


I want to be sure on this Mr Celsius, you are claiming that the plant will produce the exact same cannabinoids/gram at 80F as it will 70F and 60F? What about 85F? 90F?


My experience has been extremely definitive. Plants that grow in colder, dryer climates tend to produce more resin. With the density of cannabinoids and harvest weight being inversely proportional to a point (around 80F) where they both start to decline.

Flipping through Jorge Cervantes' book, he confirms what I am saying...


Arid is defined as a climate which is lacking in water. Generally less than 10 inches per year. However, arid climates tend to have a large change in night/day temps.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Arid is defined as a climate which is lacking in water. Generally less than 10 inches per year. However, arid climates tend to have a large change in night/day temps.

LMAO... This is the indoor-hydroponic forum...
It has never rained one time in my grow room...
Arid, as it relates to an indoor grow has nothing at all to do with temperature...

Your meaning and intent have seemed to morph a bit as the discussion progresses...

How in the world could anyone have inferred the content of your lengthy explanation from the post "The plant will pack on more resin and produce denser buds in an arid climate. If your temps stay a constant 80F, your buds may become airy."

This would make it seem as though you thought bringing a tropical sativa into the desert to grow would be a good idea, or that you think 80 degrees in the dessert can't be arid...

As well as the fact that you could not possibly have grown enough strains in well enough controlled grows that the only variables were temp and humidity to be able to make any statements about definitive experience.

 

[Mr Celsius]

The plant produces trichomes because the production of trichomes under certain conditions has caused those plants to create more offspring passing on the genes which cause trichome production to occur. The environmental factors which contribute to this, are many, and humidity, temps and other cultural conditions play a large part.

Its highly likely that the reason trichomes are produced in the concentrations that we see, is because man has been cultivating it for about 6000 years. Man is very good at selective breeding... look at a wolf and then a Pomeranian.

In south america, you have 12/12 almost all year, very high humidity and temps with very little change in those conditions. You see monster plants that yield some of the most potent stuff you've ever seen. Most of the strains we see are dutch and were afgani or pakastani strains that had been cultivated for thousands of years, then refined and selectively bred into "strains". Sativas are and have been gaining popularity for a while now and we're seeing more and more hybridization.

A plant has no idea whether or not an animal is going to domesticate it for its plant hairs.

Yes, that is correct. But if mutation in the genetic pool causes an offspring that will attracts animals and spreads its progeny to other locations, while the original plant without the new trait just drops its seeds within a 15' radius, which do you believe is going to be more successful? There's a reason that vegetables/fruits exist and have done so well for themselves.

Atmospheric Co2 may be 300-350 ppm, but running that PPM with temps above 80F will slow growth. If your PPMs are 300, you should keep your temps under 80F imo. And if your temp is 80+ you should keep your PPMs at 1500. Keeping your temps at exactly 80F with optimal cultural conditions will allow for rapid growth, but if any of those variable gets of of wack...growth suffers. And at 80F more so than at 75F. Which is hy I said, "at 80F your buds may become airy"...which is true.

It will not slow growth if Co2 levels aren't increase and heat is increased to 80 degrees F. Growth will increase if the Co2 levels, humidity, water and nutrients are match in the correct ratios. A plant can only grow as fast as its limiting factor. To me it seemed like you were saying that it will become airy... even then I would probably attribute that to another factor.

Another reason for keeping your temps down, and also airflow good, is the distance lights can be placed from the canopy. I have colas grow to within an inch or 2 of the glass separator on my lights without suffering any burn. This would require much more ventilation to be possible at 80+F.

Yes, with cool hood ventilation, you can get bulbs very close. Thing that bothers me is these absolute statements... the only thing I know everyone has to follow is that plants need: light, water, air & nutrients. Have you ever look at a Krusty setup? Were talking high temps, high humidity, high Co2 and the largest and most vigorous plants were produced from this environment.

I want to be sure on this Mr Celsius, you are claiming that the plant will produce the exact same cannabinoids/gram at 80F as it will 70F and 60F? What about 85F? 90F?

I never said that and never will. I simply stated that no flux in the temps will not damage/harm/stunt the growth of any plant (so long as those temps are ideal for growth). A plant will yield significantly less if grown at 60F or 90F because it will be stressed. Its all about a stress free environment.

My experience has been extremely definitive. Plants that grow in colder, dryer climates tend to produce more resin. With the density of cannabinoids and harvest weight being inversely proportional to a point (around 80F) where they both start to decline.

I will rebuttal with: Try growing a pure Thai strain with a cold dry climate and also grow one in a humid, hot environment and see if there's a real difference. I'd be willing to bet the colder dryer will grow slower and probably produce less resin.

Arid is defined as a climate which is lacking in water. Generally less than 10 inches per year. However, arid climates tend to have a large change in night/day temps.

I'll leave that to one of the few people I look up to: H3ad. I believe he already addressed it.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

From the oxford american dictionary...

arid |ˈarid|
adjective
(of land or a climate) having little or no rain; too dry or barren to support vegetation : hot and arid conditions. See note at dry .
• figurative lacking in interest, excitement, or meaning : his arid years in suburbia.

Or are you saying that cannabis grows best where it is too dry or barren to support vegitation?

 

[Guest]

I think everybody should stop bitching bout something that CANNOT be PROVEN either way!!! ... There are possibly hundreds of variables that effect wat ur plant does, then everyone of those variables changes at least slightly with every strain, then changes again with every pheno of that strain ... Climate wont produce awesome buds/THC levels if the rest of ur set up is completely shit!!! ... and vise versa!!!

There are certain groups who hav researched certain strains to find out how u can, in general, improve yield/THC of the strain they're working with ... Like the White Widow breeders who recommend you turn the lights off completely for the last 2 weeks of flowering because they've found that, with this strain, it will increase THC levels ... Bt if u do that with another strain, it may harm/kill ur plant!

There are TOO MANY VARIABLES to be having a bitching competition about something that, for the most part, will hav a minimal effect on ur crop.

If Mr. C is happy with his bud ... and Aaronponic is happy with his bud ... and Grat3fulh3ad is happy with his bud ... and we're all happy with the bud we produce ... Then why is everyone arguing? Get stoned, be happy and move on!
Too many people argue on this site, its not a cock measuring competition.

Cheers All!

 

[SacredBreh]

Have to wade in on this one.....

Have to wade in on this one.....

Hello all.
First, h3ad has been around for many a moon and have listened to his advise for awhile. If he says it, I am more likely to believe it.

I have grown many different strains in many different setups including outside over the last 20 years. I have found each strain to some degree likes something special. I am presently growing a DJ Short Blueberry and it is very touchy on the nutrients and highly K+ hungry. I have grown AK-47 from Serious of course, in the exact setup and found it liked less humidity than I am running now. The point is..... of course different strains and sometime plants from the same strain with a different pheno-type, like different nuances in their environment for optimal growth...

With that said, there can be certain generalities stated about the Sacredherb that are "generally true" but are not definites. They are generalized statements but are not true in all situations. Of course the reason Cannabis has resins and oils is because it helps to ensure the perpetuation of the species. That is the reason for almost any organism's nuances regarding the niche it has found in our biosphere. The specifics of why that has helped this specific organism is not definitively know but because as Celsius stated,has been domesticated and propagated for 6,ooo years (probably much longer due to the recent finds) makes it highly likely it is for our use.(Hemp for a different reason)
Temps and CO2 are good examples. If all factors are optimal, heat and CO2 will increase growth rates and product. It is a fact proven repeatedly in controlled studies. How much of these for your particular method, strain, dedication, experience, etc. is anyones guess until you "dial" it in with lots of experience. So, a generalized statement maybe true and untrue. That is with very known and researched variables, not the obscure type like the "temp from day to night drop." When people start out growing and come on these sites.... they get very conflicting information because generalities are being portrayed as givens not what they are... it would be best if the distinctions between generalities and "Cannabis Truths" were made.

I have found no difference with temp changes, not in growth, density, or potency in any I have done. My room varies with the seasons... late Spring, Summer, early Fall--changes. Late Fall, Winter, early Spring no changes..... so lots of experience with both.

Peace

 

[Aaronponic]

From the oxford american dictionary...




Or are you saying that cannabis grows best where it is too dry or barren to support vegitation?

No, I am saying that certain conditions of arid climates (dry with a change in day/night temps) during the last week or 2 of flower will typically produce denser buds.


My comment in regards to temps in the 80s had nothing to do with an arid climate. It is regarding that 80+ the the upper envelope for sustainable rapid growth, and that cultural conditions must be within closer tolerances at those temps than in the 70s. More things to worry about, and if you don't keep them in the correct levels you may end up with airy buds.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

No, I am saying that certain conditions of arid climates (dry with a change in day/night temps) during the last week or 2 of flower will typically produce denser buds.


My comment in regards to temps in the 80s had nothing to do with an arid climate.

And your comments in regard to arid climate had nothing to do with the question at hand...

And made little sense in response to the first question, since arid climates are typically quite warm (well over 80)in the day and quite cool at night (well under 70)... Look up the average High and low summer temperatures for somewhere arid and cannabis famous like Afghanistan... Daytime high temps for the summer months at elev. 6000ft are 87 degrees f and average nighttime lows are 48 degrees...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

And all of the actual research I've seen has proven an extended dark period at the end of flowering reduces potency... I don't remember the details of the experiment, but it seems several strains where tested for actual thc percentage with and without the dark period and the dark period was the looser...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

If your temps stay a constant 80F, your buds may become airy.

If this is really a 'stand alone' comment... then it is absolutely silly... Of course if your temps stay 80 your buds may become airy, but the airiness will have nothing to do with the fact that your temps stayed 80...

 

[Aaronponic]

Its highly likely that the reason trichomes are produced in the concentrations that we see, is because man has been cultivating it for about 6000 years. Man is very good at selective breeding... look at a wolf and then a Pomeranian.

Regardless of that, environmental factors are what will contribute to the production of cannabinoids within a plant. It doesn't matter if "UV and animals" are what caused plants of today to have their current potential for cannabinoid production. That potential is not reached unless environmental factors are what they need to be.

It will not slow growth if Co2 levels aren't increase and heat is increased to 80 degrees F. Growth will increase if the Co2 levels, humidity, water and nutrients are match in the correct ratios. A plant can only grow as fast as its limiting factor. To me it seemed like you were saying that it will become airy... even then I would probably attribute that to another factor.

Perhaps there are select strains that will not suffer reduced growth rates at 80+ without increased Co2 levels. However, the original poster did not indicate he was growing a pure thai strain that he or she believed to require high temps and high humidity. So assuming they are growing one of the more genetically diverse strains that most of us in North America/Europe grow, 80+F without boosted Co2 would not help and MAY cause airy buds. Not to mention, quite often a ROOM temp of 80 is a CANOPY temp of 85+.

Which is why I said again, 80s MAY cause airy buds. My experience has been time and again that if your temps get too high (btw 80F mean temp is what temp in the canopy?) buds get airy.

I never said that and never will. I simply stated that no flux in the temps will not damage/harm/stunt the growth of any plant (so long as those temps are ideal for growth). A plant will yield significantly less if grown at 60F or 90F because it will be stressed. Its all about a stress free environment.

who said damage the plant?


I said that if all environmental factors are optimal, as temps go up, thc/gram goes down and harvest weight goes up to a certain point. Generally in the 80s. What part of that is total BS?



When I am talking about introducing characteristics of an arid environment to an indoor grow room, I am talking about; Keeping the humidity down, keeping a 10F change at least in day/night temps, and right before harvest cutting all water to the plant. My experience has been that this will lead to a higher dried/harvested ratio, of more resinous buds.

If this is really a 'stand alone' comment... then it is absolutely silly... Of course if your temps stay 80 your buds may become airy, but the airiness will have nothing to do with the fact that your temps stayed 80...

Except that under the same conditions if your temps were slightly cooler and you maintained a change in night temps, they would not be airy. Why make it that much harder?

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

What if the steady temp in the room is 80F? I know people say a 10 degree change is good but what if it stays the same temp? This is during flowering cycle.......

Thanks in advance :smokin:

80f is too hot for night time.
if its 70 all day and night then the plants will strech less

=day and night temps = less strech