We are all SLAVES to PLANTS!

[Gypsy Nirvana]

GN:....Excellent post which contributes well to the thread some other arguments that I perhaps have not considered just yet....so I will work thru them.

There was a time when man survived without agriculture... And there are still peoples that could survive without modern commodities, while also living a life that is very much removed from interactions with plants - the Inuits come to mind, who usually only have access to plants during the summer months but are/were forced to rely on hunting as a primary food source for a very long time. These peoples are not the majority, but the lifestyle is possible, and they are a happy people.

GN:....If there was a time where man survived without the need of plants then I am unaware of it. We all have to eat and what we eat is either plant based or AN ANIMAL/FISH/BIRD/INSECT that needed to feed on plant matter somewhere within its food-chain to survive and thrive as meat for us to eat.

The Inuit people live on mainly meat from sea animals and land animals who in turn might have to eat other animals to survive. For example lets take say a whale the inuit need to work hard to catch and to prepare as food, where did the whale get its food from?....ahhh yes, the plankton, and what do plankton feed on?

All other life off the land in the oceans and rivers needs phytoplankton to survive. Phytoplankton get their energy directly from the sun using photosynthesis, just like plants. Zooplankton then feed on phytoplankton, and are then eaten by larger zooplankton, fish, larger fish, and so on. Plankton are at the base of a complex aquatic food web.

So we can determine that plankton is plantlike or could be construed as a plant of the sea because they have a very similar symbiosis with the mammals and fish of the sea as we do with the plants in the earth which generally feeds them and their existence is directly attributed to light/the sun as the plants and plankton are dependent on photosynthesis which has nothing to do with any human being around to help that.

So by eating whales the Inuit need the plants of the sea so that the whales can eat and exist for the Inuit to catch for their food.

Coughie:...The symbiosis is real, but to think that its between humans and plants is to assign that same god-like mentality to our own species, that we have such a complex with in the rest of life. The symbiosis is between Cellular Respiration and Photosynthesis.

GN:...Yes, the chemical breakdown of this, what I see as a temporary symbiosis between us and plants still determines that plants can exist with the sun and water and the chemicals it needs from the sea or the earth, but we cannot because we still need them to survive and grow, so who is the slavemaster here?.....yes that's right THE PLANTS.

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Coughie:...It's not an accident that the products from one process are the reactants in the other cycle. It is, however, an example of the natural world being Perfect. The exchange back-and-forth is perfect, molecule for molecule. It can not be improved. It's a beautiful thing.

GN:...Indeed nature it is a beautiful thing to behold, but how come human societies have only been able to develop to where we are today? Yes, we have only got to this place in history with the ability to cultivate and labour/slave over the continued proliferation of PLANTS. Even today genuine human slaves of other men who are slaves to the slaves are still slaves to plants.

Meanwhile without humans ever existing plants would still be very happy and vigorous coating every fertile spot on the planet, with no man or woman (human) ever intervening in their lives

Coughie:...And Natural Selection works both ways, so I'm not sure that it is fair to say we are slaves to the plants any more than they are slaves to us. There are plants that depend on animals, humans, what-have-you... Berries for example, the Rubus Genus, needs to be digested before the seeds will germinate. This was a natural selection method that took place over many generations, favoring the plants that produced harder seed coats, so that the seed survived digestion - by a bird, bear, etc - to then successfully grow when deposited in a new location, presumably far away from the originating plant. These plants have evolved so far into this method, that they have horrible germination rates when it is attempted prior to exposure of something like the acids found in the gut.

GN:...I think the argument here is about humans being slaves to plants. All other animals/fish/insects could also be said to be thoroughly dependent on plants too and they do work as carriers of seeds to fertile ground for the plants as well, just as humans (myself included as a seed distributor) carry or send plant seeds far and wide to ensure the proliferation of OUR MASTERS THE PLANTS!...and to get those seeds into the hands of those that will labour/slave over them for the rewards our plant masters bestow upon us.

Coughie:...Just some things to think about for now... If the topic turns from humans & plants -- to --> animals & plants, the whole conversation would become profound in a different manner.

GN:....As stated above I truly believe that Plants are the superior life sustaining force today, not us for sure and, right NOW, and have not yet been gazumped by any new technologies yet as a practical and sustainable solution for our continued survival and growth over any others there might well be into the future, so we are all at the mercy of plants and continue to serve their existence far more than they would have ever have 'served' us or at all when we consider the very existence of our own human race is WHOLLY DEPENDENT ON PLANTS.....we just cannot continue without them, and cannot leave them alone since most actual toil and labor by humans on this earth is in the service of PLANTS.

 

[trichrider]

i dislike the notion of being a slave to plants, it fosters resentment in caring for and nurturing them.
i would rather not have that karma to deal with while utilizing them to my benefit...

 

[pinkus]

But would plants or animals survive without fungus?

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Lets not just yet get embroiled into the microbiology of it all just yet, and try to argue/debate around the central topic here pinkus which is......Are Humans Slaves to Plants? ...yes - or no.


Something to think about though....

But would plants or animals survive without fungus?

 

[Coughie]

Just to explain a bit about where I'm coming from in terms of approaching the conversation differently..
Humans & plants relationship is the comparison of a single species (humans) to an entire Kingdom (plantae). Any ecosystem can survive and continue without any single species, but when you're asking whether a single species can survive without an entire Kingdom.... the argument just isn't objectively equal.

Species & Species or Kingdom & Kingdom, then you're giving both sides equal weight.

Kingdom vs Kingdom, the answer is clear. It's a symbiotic relationship that wont survive without both sides.
Species vs species....... the waters run deep, lol.



With that said, of course you can remove humans from the planet and plants in general will continue. Agricultural crops might falter; things like the detriment of the Cavendish banana might accelerate; the spraying and poisoning would stop so insect activity would self-regulate, resulting in what would probably be an increase in overall populations..

These things would all affect the plants around them, for better or worse.


For educational purposes, i'll dive down the animals & plants, kingdom vs kingdom, larger conversation, a bit.

So, there was this event called the Cambrian explosion. Prior to this event, plants were.. simpler. So check this out:

This is the Cambrian explosion in timeline form. The Cambrian explosion is "when most major animal phyla appeared in the fossil record." (Wikipedia)

So prior to the explosion, plants were aquatic, mostly algae. These plants were limited in function due to the chemical composition of the atmosphere though, surviving on processes that produce less ATP than cellular respiration - fermentation, etc..

Cyanobacteria are the cause of the increase in O2 levels in the atmosphere. At the time, the "life" on earth had evolved in an atmosphere with a lesser amount of oxygen, and the increasing level proved to be toxic to a lot of the life forms that had evolved to that point. This created empty niches that needed filled..

This oxygen continued to build, until the Cambrian Explosion happened... And then, later, plants moved onto land, and begin to diversify as seen in the second picture. The point being, plants and animals evolved in symbiosis.


I said that, to say this.


If you were to wipe Animalia off the earth, it would all collapse. Debris would build up on the soil with alarming speed, CO2 levels would start to plummet as the plants used up the atmospheric CO2 and there wasn't any cellular respiration to replenish it. This would eventually, essentially, strangle the plants worldwide. They'd have sunlight and water, but they wouldnt have the CO2 needed to make the sugars.

The plants would die.
Fungi would rule the world, until they ran out of things to decompose, then they too would die.
Or the wheel would be reinvented, and a new type of "animalia"/cellular respirator/source of CO2 would evolve to fill the niche.


Human vs all plants, a no-brainer.
Of course we need plants more than they need us..

But if you want to actually learn something today...

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I think that we would all resoundingly agree that the notion and fact that we are indeed 'in the service' of plants is more than slightly alarming trichrider.....and we can disguise and deny the fact till the cows come home, but overall I can't begin to get away from the blatant truth of the matter that for sure we are the workers/slaves that keep them happy and in turn as a sort of carrot and stick reward the plants allow us to have what we need......usually.

i dislike the notion of being a slave to plants, it fosters resentment in caring for and nurturing them.
i would rather not have that karma to deal with while utilizing them to my benefit...

 

[mr.brunch]

I wouldn’t say we are slaves to the plants, because we are well rewarded for our time... if they weren’t here , we wouldn’t be here , after all.
Cannabis plants have me pretty well trained though.

 

[Donald Mallard]

ive considered this before ,
akin to how flowering plants use bees to lets say live long and prosper ,
cannabis id say has used man in much the same way ,,




slavery would involve no remuneration ,
i think we all do pretty well from our arrangement with cannabis ,
its more of a symbiotic arrangement id say ,
we both benefit ....

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

One of our plant masters, from the movie: 'The Day of the TRIFFIDS!'

 

[ozzieAI]

if we are slaves to the plants...then they must be pretty good masters.....

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

If you were to wipe Animalia off the earth, it would all collapse. Debris would build up on the soil with alarming speed, CO2 levels would start to plummet as the plants used up the atmospheric CO2 and there wasn't any cellular respiration to replenish it. This would eventually, essentially, strangle the plants worldwide. They'd have sunlight and water, but they wouldnt have the CO2 needed to make the sugars.

Plants are constantly doing cellular respiration, just like you and me.

 

[pinkus]

All of the kingdoms meditate molecules for the other kingdoms. I don't care that I need them more than they need me. We ALL need help. Even those Damn "libertarians".

 

[FrozenFire]

Two trains of though on this.

First thought is who sold the human race to plants, and to what end? What currency was used to make this transfer of ownership? How was it documented to show proof of ownership? Are plants growing us to consume? Are our graveyards the commodity plants bargained for?

Second train of thought is that we share an ecosystem as others pointed out. We both directly and indirectly require the plant kingdom to survive. While life can survive without plants, life as we know it cannot. Extremophiles come to mind.

 

[Teddybrae]

I 'm struggling with the question. Enslaved? Plants? And ... wasn't there a book about this? And ... then a film? How will thinking about this help mankind? Gosh ...

 

[oldbootz]

We are in a symbiotic relationship with plants. Saying they dont need us is the wrong way to think about it. Its a give and take. Most plant species requires certain pollinator vectors to be successful. All flower bearing plants only make flowers for pollinators, not because the plant likes to make pretty flowers. In the case of cannabis, the type we have today is akin to a highly bred dog species. It is no longer the wild wolf it once was. They exist in this form because they are valuable to us, and we keep planting and breeding them, so its good for the cannabis plant. If you talk about truly wild cannabis in places like Nepal where they have some original wild cannabis chinensis and russia where they have some original ruderalis, then yes those plants dont rely on us, but at the same time we dont rely on those kind of plants either.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

There's a reason why smoking a joint makes you want to go work in the garden.

 

[Cork144]

isnt this the concept behind the documentary, the botany of desire

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Pretty much Cork, but I have never seen this doco and I can only get a trailer on youtube about it due to copyright stuff...Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdXOeWMwX-4

isnt this the concept behind the documentary, the botany of desire

*I'm enjoying this thread, for it does get the intellectual juices flowing.

**You would have to feed slaves to keep them alive, and the plants do feed us....
So that's a form of remuneration right there.(and they clothe us and keep a roof over our heads).

 

[Cork144]

I remember it being available back in 08, I did post it on the videos sub forum back then, I think you were a bit too busy with your legal troubles though to have maybe caught it my good friend

 

[Cork144]

I believe we are a conduit of creation, so much of our behaviour and ourselves we will never understand because we were never meant too, the ego is the mechanism in place to hide that underlaying biological function of us all, to just spread whatever it is our purpose is, who knows, I just love being high and tending to plants, I know many others do to, I dont see ourselves as seperate from anything anymore, its all one giant symbiotic dance like the fungal microbes in our soil working together with the roots, probably not ever understanding what either is