Water Cooled Growers Unite!

[!PeAcE!]

Hey for those of you that are DIY'ers and dont feel like spending 120 bucks on a ice box and would rather spend 30-40 to construct their own here you go....and your welcome!!

6-pass oil cooler core...
http://www.etrailer.com/p-D15831.html

I almost built 4 for the price of 1 icebox

I have found that this DIY now makes going water cooled not so stupid sounding anymore. This only works if you have a fairly cool place to begin with (never really going about 75), 3/4 of my 100gallon rez (you dont have to go this big but I just had this laying around) was dug into the ground (dirt basement) for natural cooling from the cool earth below. All I am paying for is the electric off the pump and everything is getting cooled about 15 degrees. I knew with just a little tweaking i could make water cooling intriguing again in my eyes. I replace the rez water every week or so to prevent mineral or calcium build up in the gear.

 

[Bozo]

Here my my take on water cooling .If you need a chiller the best you will do is lowwer your power bill.I think buying any of this stuff from HI is silly.It truely is over priced junk from china.I tried to throw ideas about water cooled co2 last year and had some friend of HI tells me thanks but HI didnt need my ideas to better there product.You can read thread search water cooled co2 .Back on point all these products to water cool are avaliable else where cheaper and ofter times better.
Water cooling bulbs is a recipe for trouble as we see from the poor fella that lost it big when 1 pump took a crap.
This can fail that can fail but there are a few things that need to be redundant or on auto shut down when limits are reached.If you dont do this and have a failure whos fault is it?
I have a fan set up to exhaust room if water cooling fails.Theres no difference if yer split ac craps out you still need a back up or auto shut down.
Heat exchangers are avaliable in any size all they need is cold water flowwing a drip pan and a fan .All I have ever done is DTW and DIY exchangers and never been unhappy with it

 

[walmatt23]

I've got a 1/10 hp chiller lying around that I'm not using, but am thinking I might as well try one of these 6" ice boxes on my next grow to cool my 600w. I'll post up some pics of my set up when I do!

 

[KaptKid]

Read this thread thur and thur.
Still need to study up on this some more.
Great Theard

 

[trekstor]

i think most of you are actually crack heads. for 2.5 k i could run over 2500 feet of tubing for geo thermal.

I can get $1.15 per foot of high density poly 1 inch. I will dig 2 40 foot trenches 3 feet wide. 5 -8 feet apart. Renting a back hole is around $250 per day with delivery and pick up. I am sure I can dig 80 feet of trench 3 feet wide in 10 hours 6 feet deep.

This will provide me with about 2 tons of cooling. In the winter It will provide me with over 3 tons.

So whats the problem? Ac, and water chillers are stupid. For people who have to much $ to blow. Give it to me instead of buying chillers. my back yard is super small, but you just run coiled tubing horizontally. Cost of digging is nothing compare to electrical bill for a chiller.

Earth temp is steady around 55F, That means, 75 degrees in the room should be no problem.

Anyways, I am gonna start digging soon, I just need to make sure I get the plans for the hydro. You do not want to damage a gas line.

Lets concentrate, on how to build our own "icebox" cuz 150 is way to much for what it is worth.

I saw someone post a link to $29 oil coolers for campers. Anyone remember the link?

cheers

 

[trekstor]

just did the math,

1 trench will be almost 1.5 tons of cooling. On average 1 loop = about 180 feet of tubing.

40 feet trench, of 3 feet diameter circles over lapped every 1.5 feet. = about 255 feet of tubing. so just to call it safe 280 feet will be more then enough to pull this off. For how much? I figure $350 in tubing. $200 in bob cat rental, plus water pump around $300. Res, $30. and then at end your heat exchangers, like ice box.

So lets say, I call it a day for around $1300. 1.5 tons of cooling, Geothermal, might need to run only 5-6 amps of power for the pump. Works all year around. Sounds good to me.

Allot better over 3-5 k for 1.5 ton a/c, with 15 amps of power, and limited to only positive temps.

Something like this. There is no better pattern, But there is always the best pattern for the size of the yard. I am not going to drill at all. So those who are scared to attempt a DIY geo thermal, dont be. If you make it big enough, you could use it for your central heat or cooling.

http://www.olearyplumbingandheating.com/pictures/heating/Geothermal.jpg
http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/geothermal-loop.jpg

That guy has at least 4-5 tons.
I might keep you guys posted.

 

[attackyhi]

anyone try advanced nutrients ice flow? i want to know if work or not..

 

[Eschertias]

This is what I have in mind for my own setup once I get a house with a decent yard in it. Given we have snow on the ground half the time, and I'll be running a 60% polypropyline glycol solution, I foresee it working out very well.

 

[trekstor]

well i did some more math on heat loss, I am going to go with 600 feet of tubing. My loops s should just great in the summer, but even better in the winter.

 

[Rednick]

This is what I have in mind for my own setup once I get a house with a decent yard in it. Given we have snow on the ground half the time, and I'll be running a 60% polypropyline glycol solution, I foresee it working out very well.

Unless you live in an area with Permafrost, then the ambient ground temp should never dip below a certain temp and that is well above the freezing point of water.
Now if the connection to your house is Above Ground you would have to insulate that for sure.

 

[budleydoright]

I run two fresca sol water jackets off of a 50 gallon insulated rez with a DIY chiller built from a 100 dollar AC unit. This is an attic type environment with ambient air temps regularly exceeding 100 degrees.

My chiller runs and exhausts indoors. the sealed room or box is 4 x 8 flower 4 x 4 veg. for a total of 12 x 4. the interior is insulated with 1.5" styrofoam sheet insulation.

I cool the interior with what was my last chiller. another 100 walmart AC unit. this time the heat exchanger drops through the ceiling of the box and the compressor/condensor sit on top.


Here's the complete chiller insulated rez setup.


The AC disassembled and ready to be submerged.


Installed next to the Veg side.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?
albumid=20521&pictureid=427096&thumb=1
The flower side.


In Action. The white box in the middle is the AC.

So like other styles of growing, there are ways around the high cost of entry.

2 Fresca Sols 600.00
2 ballasts 600.00
lumber and supplies to build box 300.00
2 AC units 200.00
1200 gph pump 120.00
co2 Regulator 100.00
Co2 controller 300.00

I'm growing in 100% coco coir in 3 gallon smart pots. GH FNB + additives. Temps low 80s RH 60%. Interior is just under 30 sq ft. 67 watts per sq ft. 1k eye hortilux hps 1k ushio hps 12=16" from the tops.

I have done 3 rounds with water cooling in a simular box chiller.

 

[bogfan]

Trekstor,
Most of us arent crackheads. Most of us just read and are curious.This is my first real post here on icmag. No pics to prove what I have done, so I dont have much credibility on here. What I do have, are years of experience.
I am curious about how you did the math on heat loss and came up with 600 feet of 1 inch tubing. The ground temps here are around 58 degrees at 36 inches below the surface.
I have 4x600 bulbs running now. This will be my 4th grow in this setup with Bogglegum and heat is giving me a real problem.
I am designing a hybrid system with both 4 cooled hoods and a couple of heat exchangers for general room cooling with the intent of getting rid of my ac system and running a sealed room.
I can only justify this by NOT running a chiller. I have a 120' deep well that i am getting repaired next week.
I would like to run a drain to waste system pulling water from the well, but I dont think I can dump the volume of water in my 1500 gal septic system and field lines, leaving the only option to drill another well to drain the water into.
Also, not sure the quantity of water I will be able to pull from the well as compared to the volume of water needed.
The HydroInnovations Ice box owners manual says it needs 300 gpm at 10' head.

I am not sure how much flow should go thru the FrescaSol or the liquid lumens fixtures. I assume about 100 gph.
That would mean I need to flow about 1,000 gal/hr thru the 6 fixtures. 1200 if I use a bestcoastgrowers dehumidifier. And that is all assuming that water stays at a low temperature and doesnt warm from recirculation.

Assuming I ran the system for 12 hours a day that would leave me a 12,000 gal per 12 hour day of operation. a 12,000 rez is just not feasible for me

I am also considering a underground 1,000 gal reservoir in combination with some loops of geothermal piping, but dont have any idea how to calculate the requirements on any of this.

The other issue I just cant seem to put together in my mind is how I am gonna pump and control all of this water.
The pump that gets all of this water to the surface is gonna draw some major amperage, so I might need to pump it to a reservoir first so the pump doesnt have to run the full 12 hours. It doesnt seem practical to have a 2500 watt pump running for 12 hours.
That means I will have to design some type of system inside the reservoir to control the deep well pump, and I am not really sure how the well pump works.

Options:
1 1,000 gal reservoir that heats up continuously during operation
2 Nice cold water well that has no place to dump and requires a rez.
3 Geothermal piping that I dont know my requirements

I WOULD APPRECIATE ALL INTELLIGENT COMMENTS
Chiller is just not an option for me

 

[THRIPS AHOY!]

anyone try advanced nutrients ice flow? i want to know if work or not..

Have not tried it but i am commenting cus i just hooked up their coolflame.So far wow.I am running my blowers constant and running the coolflame. I thought it might come up short to bring the ppms up but it is no problem. Getting 1500 ppm and not even at half speed.Plus it was less than half the price of the other burners which were not water cooled.Ive always been skeptical of their products but so far im loving this one.And im brewing up some ideas for the iceflow.

 

[Bozo]

bogfan, I run 4 open bulb 600 watt lights and add a 1000 around week 3 .I dtw through a large heat exchanger I salvaged off an old ac condenser.I dont use anywhere near 1200 gallons in 12 hrs.My heat exchanger is 2 ft x 4 ft and I use a valve to restrict flow I have never measured my flow but if I had to estimate it I wold say bout 100 -150 gallons a 12 cycle.
I wouldnt use any numbers given by hydro inovations they wat to scare you into buying a chiller from them .

I think #2 is yer best bet .

I can explain my system better to you if you want .I dont post pics but .If I have time I will attempt to measuse my flow rate to give you a more accurate number

I run open bulbs by choice I have 5 super sun 2 reflectors .Using them would likely cut my water consumption by 30% or more.
My take on water cooled fixtures is there trouble waiting to happen,I would air cool my lights on a curcuit that didnt use room air and use heat exchanger to cool room air

 

[bogfan]

Bozo,
Thanks for the reply. Your setup sounds really sweet. If I go with the heat exchanger, I am going to buy the HydroInn exchangers.(Those DIY exchangers are probably better but I just dont feel confident) Plus I already have 2 laying around. How many 8 inch exchangers and what size pump do you think I would need to achieve air conditioning in my room with them. My goal is to reduce electricity demand from my system from my ac so that I can add a light. would a 600 gallon submerged reservoir and a 1/4 hp pump get er done? I would still like to find more data on heat loss and exchange through geothermal piping.

THANKS ALL

 

[bogfan]

The only issue I have with using the cold well water is that it is 120 feet deep and that pump will probably pull 12 or 15 amps @110V. Thats a lot of Juice! especially is I run it continuously for 12 hours a day. The only way it can be feasible is with a reservoir and a smaller pump that runs continuous and uses much less power.I have to keep it from using more juice than my lights.

The options and equipment uncertainties still have me pondering.

 

[Bozo]

My best guess would be 4 - 8 inch ice boxxes .600 gallons might be enough,but remember you will now have to feed 4 units with water .Have you pondered how easy it would be to get a radiator that still has the fan shroud mount a fan on it .Do you really wanna buy 4 -8 inch fans .Geo thermal is sweet but requires digging up your yard and a fairly hefty initial investment to do it properly.
If done from well water or dtw tap I belive 1 big unit is more effecient than multipul units and will use less water .I dont have any facts to back this theroy up .I have seen pictures of the water cooled rooms H.I. has set up and trouble they go through is silly to me

I didnt catch how you cool your room now but if it barely keeps up hook up the 600 gallon tank and pump set up the 2 ice boxxes you have and measure the results that should tell you if you can add a light

 

[bogfan]

Setting up the 2 boxes I have would require all the water , pumps and reservoirs to be already set up. I am planning the setup now. The original investment doesnt bother me much. I just want it to operate right and use as little electricity as possible. I am starting to see your point about only flowing water to one exchanger though. That would have lots value in a smaller pump. It seems to me that if the water volume is the weak point, then the exchgear size may not be the most important variable.

Using multiple smaller exchangers, should I not be able to reduce the flow to each exchanger down to maybe 200 gph?

Also, the water cooled fixtures require much less flow and would seem to require a much smaller pump. Seems like that alone would allow you to run another light by saving on pump power.

THANKS BOZO

ALL IDEAS WELCOME

WOuld love to hear more about similar setups!!

 

[what the]

these geothermal ideas are awesome. Unfortunately not practical for most people, but really cool. If any of you guys build one of these, please posts pics.

Also, since this is a water cooled thread maybe some of you can give me your thoughts on the cost of chillers in this other thread.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=181027

 

[budleydoright]

Probably be a good idea to try this system with a make shift chiller or huge rez. water cooled isn't for everyone. If your water gets too cold you'll get condensation. I find it takes considerable tweaking to find the right balance between rez temp/AC-deumidify settings.

Water cooling ads a level of complexity as well as some new risks. You may want to make sure that this is not only something your able to manage but that it won't take the enjoyment out of your hobby before investing the $$ or tearing up your property.

Me, I love water cooling. You can really stealth things out with it. My 4 x 12' sealed box sounds like a refridgerator or freezer. Almost completely silent. Yet inside is 2k hps in a 4 x 8 flower chamber, full climate control, co2. All self contained in a 100 degree attic. Straight aircooling just simply couldn't do this. Plus I have made friends with my arch enemy "the inverse square law". reducing the distance between your plant tops and your light source by 25% doubles the lumens that reach the plant. So it is an effective way to increase light intensity when runnung a Hot room with Co2.