Water Cooled Growers Unite!

[OIBI]

This website is loading extraordinarily slow. So Reading the thread is very time consuming. So forgive me if this was discussed on this thread.

Has anyone running water cooling measured the actual power draw of their equipment? Not what's printed on the label, or assumed power draw, or estimations. Actual power draw as measured at the wall for every pieces of equipment of the HVAC system. (pump, chiller, air handler, ect)

I've seen claims of high energy efficiency but I've never seen actual hard numbers mentioned or a true apples to apples comparison made. Makes it really difficult to make plans.

 

[queequeg152]

This website is loading extraordinarily slow. So Reading the thread is very time consuming. So forgive me if this was discussed on this thread.

Has anyone running water cooling measured the actual power draw of their equipment? Not what's printed on the label, or assumed power draw, or estimations. Actual power draw as measured at the wall for every pieces of equipment of the HVAC system. (pump, chiller, air handler, ect)

I've seen claims of high energy efficiency but I've never seen actual hard numbers mentioned or a true apples to apples comparison made. Makes it really difficult to make plans.

i think its telling how few people are actually reporting back to the thread with these wild success stories.
the chiller and water cooled AC craze was/is mere marketing bullshit. such is the norm with this industry.

chillers CAN be more efficient, but not these units being offered... they are basically off the shelf condensing units with plate or tube shell heat exchangers slapped on, in lieu of an actual lineset and evaporator coil/ air handler assembly.

 

[hobojoe00]

So years after my initial post here, I now can afford to and I'm going to try this. I currently have 6x12' room with 4k lights in air cooled hoods. All the reading I do seems like adding water cooling to the lights could cause condensation issues INSIDE the hoods. sounds bad to me. So, I'm going to get heat exchanger to act as air conditioning for the room. (my room is not sealed I suck air out via 8" vortex on a scrubber)

So, with my air cooled lights, and the exhaust pulling cool air from the basement I can keep temps good most of the year. In the height of summer though I hit mid 90s. I have been turning off lights to keep it in check.

So next month I'm planning on buying a heat exchanger, and running my well water through it back into my well. The well water comes out at 55F. I'll build a little box for it so I can put one of my 6" fans on it, push/pull air through the exchanger into the room. My question to you guys is:
What size exchanger should I run? I'm looking at the ones of this site, unless someone has a better suggestion.
http://www.badger-pipe.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=COIL


Air conditioning is not an option. My electric bill is already too high. I already run water to the room so adding a line for the exchanger will be simple.

let me know how this works out , i have a 30,000 gallon swimming pool that stays 50f all the time. i could cool my greenhouse and use it in the summer. id also convert my rooms.

 

[queequeg152]

let me know how this works out , i have a 30,000 gallon swimming pool that stays 50f all the time. i could cool my greenhouse and use it in the summer. id also convert my rooms.

50f all the time? how is that possible?
my pool reaches 80 EASILY. with full blast sun it gets up to like 86 ish.

is northern california that much cooler than houston?

 

[queequeg152]

saw these randomly today... thought about this thread.

https://www.johnstonesupply.com/sto.../c1027078-c1026859-c1028312-bSPACEPAK-p1.html

3 and 5 ton units, sold as "reverse cycle" chillers. IDK why they are billed as reverse cycle... they are simply heat pumps.

anyway, i think i saw a 5 ton unit for like 8 grand when i was reading about it. not terribly impressive, but i was not aware such chillers were available.

 

[eebbnflow]

i think its telling how few people are actually reporting back to the thread with these wild success stories.
the chiller and water cooled AC craze was/is mere marketing bullshit. such is the norm with this industry.

chillers CAN be more efficient, but not these units being offered... they are basically off the shelf condensing units with plate or tube shell heat exchangers slapped on, in lieu of an actual lineset and evaporator coil/ air handler assembly.

I am back ! Unfortunately I had purchased a chiller to use this year and I don't like it . The pump is what makes it totally inefficient constantly running ! What I do like is the it is easy to cool 2 rooms , but it is still not worth it for me . The other huge benefit is 6 months of the year I can hook up an ambient cooler . I will leave my water lines in place for the winter for free cooling . I ordered a central air system I can't wait for it to come ! Aside from everything else the prices on chillers went up again I choked on my cereal this morning . You can get va 2ton window chiller for 4800$ usd /or instead 2 mr slims

 

[queequeg152]

I am back ! Unfortunately I had purchased a chiller to use this year and I don't like it . The pump is what makes it totally inefficient constantly running ! What I do like is the it is easy to cool 2 rooms , but it is still not worth it for me . The other huge benefit is 6 months of the year I can hook up an ambient cooler . I will leave my water lines in place for the winter for free cooling . I ordered a central air system I can't wait for it to come ! Aside from everything else the prices on chillers went up again I choked on my cereal this morning . You can get va 2ton window chiller for 4800$ usd /or instead 2 mr slims

4800 bucks? are you fucking serious?

is this sold by a hydro company? it must be.

see the link i included above somewhere about the chillers on offer from john stone. they are still very expensive, but more like 1500-2000 per ton.

regarding your pump... yea that should not be the case?

the pump should be on a time off delay circuit, or a temp dependent delay off circuit.

basically...when the thermostat is not calling for cooling, the pump should be delayed, staying on for a pre determined amount of time... say a minute, then shut off.

alternativly, upon shut down, the circuit keeps the pump on while the temp of the chill water is under a certain set point... say 55 degrees.

both of these are designed to move as much heat as possible into the chill water... concerving energy to some extent.

regular air handlers do this as well... though the time delay will be alot less owing to less specific heat capacity in refrigerants like r22,r134a,r410 etc.

in addition to fixing the delay circuit, you can also change the pump out... possibly.

what sort of pump is this? is it over sized? personally, if i were to run a chiller, i would be running something like a LAING circulation pump... they are rock solid, though idk if they are rated for cold water... i know they are designed for hot water circulation, but cold? idk.

yes these pumps are upwards of 300 bucks, but if your system head is low enough... or can be retrofitted to be low enough, such a pump could probably be used.

 

[eebbnflow]

I did not pay 4800 for mine but I see the MSRP on the same unit has gone up to 4800 from 3500 from hydro innovation . I find it is too expensive per ton of cooling.

I really liked watercooling . This was my 2nd go at it . What you mentioned about the pump is foreign to me , I have always ran pumps recirculating 24/7 with chillers on a smaller scale except this time it was NOT and Eco plus pump that uses 125w, the pump I use is a 1/2hp flo tech very powerful ! Fire hose powerful lol . The chiller won't even start unless it's getting 5 gpm . At 120v it pulls ( I believe 8 or 10 amps ) can't remember . I can't help but think it's a waste of power . I've already paid for an AC so I guess I will see

I'm not trying to hate on water cooling this is my experience. I look forward to winter though as I will be trying out some coils immersed in iced cold water outside then I will chill my water by pumping it through the coils . Depending on how much coil I use do you think it would work ?

 

[eebbnflow]

I see the chillers from John stone as well . Tradewind makes them too but are for aquariums

 

[queequeg152]

I did not pay 4800 for mine but I see the MSRP on the same unit has gone up to 4800 from 3500 from hydro innovation . I find it is too expensive per ton of cooling.

I really liked watercooling . This was my 2nd go at it . What you mentioned about the pump is foreign to me , I have always ran pumps recirculating 24/7 with chillers on a smaller scale except this time it was NOT and Eco plus pump that uses 125w, the pump I use is a 1/2hp flo tech very powerful ! Fire hose powerful lol . The chiller won't even start unless it's getting 5 gpm . At 120v it pulls ( I believe 8 or 10 amps ) can't remember . I can't help but think it's a waste of power . I've already paid for an AC so I guess I will see

I'm not trying to hate on water cooling this is my experience. I look forward to winter though as I will be trying out some coils immersed in iced cold water outside then I will chill my water by pumping it through the coils . Depending on how much coil I use do you think it would work ?

ok... so the unit does not have its own pump? ok thats your problem right there man...

this is only a 2 ton unit? you could probably run a 1/6hp pump EASILY... it just needs to develop enough head to cooperate with your chillers heat exchanger.

do you know if this chiller uses a coaxial hx or a brazed plate?

can you get the model numbers off the HX? you need to look up the hx and determine its pressure drop at various flow rates.

like you said your system has a flow switch at 5gpm... so your pump needs to be able to deal with your hx pressure loss + your systems pressure loss + a few gpm for safety and filter fouling etc.

im not hating on chillers ether man. im just angry at all the people bullshit on this thread about chillers being 30% more efficient because... water.

its complete nonsense. chillers are good on there own for a number of reasons, you dont need to bullshit.

ON PRINCIPAL chillers are a good idea... just not cost effective on these residential scales... YET.

given the choice? costs being reletivly close? i would 100% install a chiller in my home.

the only real downside is the lack of central air filtration that you get with a good central AHU with a powerfull blower and good media air filter.
everything else about chillers is great though.... 1" insulated pex or a 24x20 insulated duct? which do you think is easier to install?

zoning with a simple 100 dollar valve actuator... or a fucking... 500 dollar opposed blade damper/vane splitter + actuator?

everything about chiller systems is good except cost.

 

[Rippleyaliens]

Water Cooled...
Let me throw my few pennies into this, as I am all about it. An extremely tricky, picky, solution, to address --->HEAT<----. My first initial configuration, was a 50gal, heavy trash can (plastic), a 8" Hydroinovation Heat exchange. Big time fumble as 8", is tooo big, for a small to still small grow infrastructure. -No water chiller. I initially thought I could just use ICE, epic failure, but insane amount of knowledge obtained.

My first grow, was with a
Fresca Sol water cooled light.
1/4 power ECO+ water chiller.
60gal black reservoir. Water chiller in next room, 2x 2in holes in wall. Used PVC pipe, to allow the 3/4 water hoses through, so no hose hitting\touching anything, other than the connectors to the chiller\reservoir.
Used 1/4 tubbing, from reservoir-light-reservoir.
2 Water pumps. 1x for Light 1x for Chiller.

Once setup, and running with 600 Watt hps light. This is where it gets just outstanding, to the point I only grow, with Water cooled gear.
Test 1. Just water, using room temperature. With 600watt lights, the water will go from whatever temp it is, up to 90+ Degree. Still in safe operation, but the temp just climbs, depending on the location temperature. I learned. To do that initially, to heat up the tubing, to allow for really secure checks. To see where PINCHES develop within the tubing, where it is sitting wrong, etc..
Test 2. Chiller in the ROOM... =---->2x as fast heating up. <---- . I knew it would..

Test 3. I tried a 2x4x6 tent, just to see. (UGGGGG, yet WOWWWWW). My last one, was with a cool tube, in a small tent. very decent. With the Fresca Sol, It was a Very, very different situation.
When the system- 1/4hp Chiller-[-wall-]- Reservoir --600Watt Fresca Sol. The entire room+Tent became whatever temperature I wanted. In the Winter, it was 15F, outside. The Chiller\Room pretty much heated my place. In the room--Tent. It becomes possible to set whatexactly temperature you want. The light will heat the water high. The chiller can just be set at 65-67. The tent will be 84, rest of room 70-75. YES a 10 degree difference. The plants grew so far, soo fast, was Amazing.

With water cooled Fresca Sol, the plants actually grew up on the light. I kid you not, to the point, of I woke up one day, checked. A cola, was actually up against it. I had no more height to grow, so it was interesting. With Water cooled, the plants can be within 6inches, still cool to the touch.
---------------
I've done a number more tests. But for pure STEALTH, this is hard to beat. For full efficiency, This setup, cost me $24 a month for the Chiller, $68 a month for the light. I used "KiloWatt" meters. I just use dirt, no fancy hydro.

 

[eebbnflow]

These are easily available for me . If I had one of these to act as my air handler along with my chiller . They can make me one with no solinoid valve so the water will flow 24/7 but the fans turn on/off as needed will that work as an air handler if properly sized ? To me it's the same thing is it ? Instead of cool to waste the water will recirculate .

this is the one QQ . No specs but just to give you an idea

 

[queequeg152]

cool so that seems like a legit fan coil man... are you sure they dont offer any data sheets?

i mean how are they selling these things to builders if they dont have any data? that makes 0 sense tbh.

when i spec a pump or a blower or even shit like catwalk grating... the manufacturers LEAP at the opportunity to send you cut sheets, data sheets etc... just hide your address in your email footer or else they will start mailing your catalogues and shit if they think you are a consultant engineer or what ever....

i ordered drawing tube mailers and special cardboard flat file boxes from uline ONE TIME, and now we get fucking phone books sized catalogue every 3 months rammed into our tiny ass mail box.

 

[Ttystikk]

So is anyone working with water cooled LED?

 

[jackspratt61]

pfa tubing

pfa tubing

For those interested...PFA tubing/5/16" I.D. coiled to 2 3/4" interior bend...a clear tubing that can tolerate temps to 500 degrees...use R.O. water,no chiller necessary. Use standard quick connect fittings and keep exiting water temps to approx. 120 degrees. Works wonders and provides hot water. Turn off your water heater and save money!

 

[Ttystikk]

For those interested...PFA tubing/5/16" I.D. coiled to 2 3/4" interior bend...a clear tubing that can tolerate temps to 500 degrees...use R.O. water,no chiller necessary. Use standard quick connect fittings and keep exiting water temps to approx. 120 degrees. Works wonders and provides hot water. Turn off your water heater and save money!

PFA=?

Where do you get it? Got a line on the fittings? I'm about to do an upgrade and this is exactly what I need.

 

[jackspratt61]

PFA=?

Where do you get it? Got a line on the fittings? I'm about to do an upgrade and this is exactly what I need.

There are several companies that produce this tubing. They will coil the tubing to specs you provide. Expect to pay approx. $100 each. The fittings are common push type that you find at any hardware store. Rated at 120 degrees operating temp.

 

[Drop That Sound]

I'm contemplating to cut an access port in the floor in my converted RV trailer, right down into the grey water tank (def not the black water one lol), and bend the copper lines and dunk a 80 pint dehuey evaporator coil down into it. Or any old window banger, etc. I can replace them easily when needed.

Gonna insulate around the tank with 4 inch foam, fill it with RV glycol antifreeze\water mix, and chill 3 different reserviors with titanium tube heat exchangers. 3 different pumps with their own STC-1000 temp controllers.

70% of the year I have a culvert with cold mountain water running right underneath where i'm parked, suppose I could run another coil or a pipe the length of the entire culvert (40 ft) and pump coolant through it as well.