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HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Lets begin... i have box 40x60x70cm (dont know how to write x length x height cm) and 4x120mm fans for blowing air out and 2x92mm for blowing it in. One of outblowers is attached to cool tube, in the other end of cool tube is another 120mm fan whitch is pushing air through cool tube and out. In the front end of the box i have big 22cm fan for air mixing in the box. I have 3x2+1 pots in the box.

The problem is following: The two backer flowers dont get enough light (because of cool tube) and i saw stretching signs. So do you think its good idea to remove cool tube and put in just ordinary hood and 22cm big fan directed into the light so the fan will move hot air towards the back of the box and the exhaust fans will suck it out? The two backer plants dont get almost nothing light and i must do something about that. Please help me ASAP.

IndianHay

Okay well first of all what kind of light are we talking about here? That's a pretty small space. Keep in mind given a natural environment this plant is very comfortable growing in excess of 2-3 meters tall. You're trying to grow 3 plants in less then 1/4 that size space (40cmx60cmx70cm = roughly 16"x24"x28"). Now I'm wondering here being such a small space you shouldn't be needing to use a very strong light so I'm kind of thinking the cool tube is overkill or you're trying to put too strong of a light in too small of a space but if so you wouldn't be thinking some plants aren't getting enough light. Another thing that's working against you is all the fans. What you describe first off is way more then a space that size should need. Your space translates to approximately 6 cubic feet. The maximum rate of air exchange for cooling one should use is enough to completely exchange the air 5 times per minute or in this case roughly 35cfm's I believe most 120mm fans are rated for at least 50cfm's so one 120mm fan should be enough but you got 4. Also what you describe is called an active intake/active exhaust set up. That's a design that only really works in large spaces. In small spaces you want to use a passive intake/active exhaust. If the space is well sealed except for the intake and exhaust then when the fan sucks air out the negative pressure created by the space that air occupied will naturally draw air in thru the intake. In a confined space the active intake actually works against the exhaust by adding positive pressure and so heat doesn't get ventilated as efficiently. So you should lose the fans on the intake.

For that size space your light should really be in the form of cfl's, at the most maybe a 250W HID. None of those, with proper ventilation, should need a cool tube.

Personally, if I had to grow in a space that small I'd only be flowering one plant not three. Not that it can't be done but it's alot of work keeping plants small and healthy and the yield hardly seems worth all the effort and risk. In the end one bigger plant in that space will yield about the same amount as three smaller ones will, maybe even a little more and it'll be alot easier to care for. The down side being you'll have no variety and if you're a heavy smoker you'll run out before your next harvest although that would be true no matter how many plants you had in there.

To answer your question though, you should be able to remove the cool tube although I'm not sure you need a hood that'll also eat up space. I think ultimately your problem is going to be keeping the plants from growing into the light. The cool tube helps protect them from that but at the same time reduces the room for growth. If I were you I'd be looking for some way to relocate my grow to at least a closet where I have more room to work with and therefore more options. Although that would probably mean buying stronger more powerful lights and fans as well as additional pots, soil, nutrients, etc.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
I have a question for you. Don't really know where I can ask this so I thought who better then you. OK so I have been smoking around 12 years now (only weed) sometimes a lot and some times only a little. When winter comes it gets really cold and also dry here and it gets harder for me to breath (also have a cat and cat allergies). If I smoke before I go to bed (one or two hours before) I wake up and hack for like 10 minutes, Flem Flem Flem. I am wondering if you ever have problems breathing in the morning or just really congested. also I am wondering if you have any advice to help my problem. I am worried I might have lung problems or something. Do you think if I start running or biking my lungs would get stronger and help elevate the problem? I am 28 years old.

Yeah I get that and the more resinous the weed or if I'm smoking straight hash or kief then I will be more congested the next day. However, I've been a cigarette and pot smoker for over 30 years. So to a certain degree I have come to accept the cough and congestion as normal, after all they do call that a smokers cough.

Now one thing you got working against you is at least some history of allergies that may impract your breathing but that should be pretty minor. You have youth on your side so I wouldn't be too worried about serious health problems yet. If you have the interest and or discipline exercis is one of the best preventative measures one can take to avoid problems in the future. However exercise does not treat or lessen the cause it just minimizes the damage. Currently there are two healthier options for enjoying marijuana other then the traditional bowl, bong or joint.

Option one is to ingest (eat) it, not raw by itself but added to certain food especially those containing alot of fat (THC attaches to fat and is then easily absorbed into the body thru the digestive system). Unfortunately this method of enjoying marijuana is very different, you feel it more in the body, the high is much much stronger and lasts for alot longer then the traditional way of smoking it. It does take longer to hit too, sometimes upwards of 2 hours. Due to this many find it too difficult to adjust the dosage and can only see eating it like at a big party or when your goal is to just get totally wasted and pass out.

Option two is to use a vaporizer. Marijuana resin doesn't need the intense heat of a flame (a couple of thousand degrees) to vaporize. All it really needs is right around 400 degrees F. At that tempurature the resin will vaporize into a gas but it's not hot enough for the plant matter to burn. It's the burning of plant matter that makes all the toxic gases that causes respritory problems. Also since the heat is so much greater alot of the THC is destroyed before you every get a chance to inhale it. Yet it's the THC we are really after the plant matter and all that comes with is something people tend to accept as a necessary evil in order to enjoy weed. Well with vaporizers that's not true anymore. When you use a vaporizer you get just the resin and virtually none of it gets destroyed, so alot less gets you alot higher that in and of itself decreases how much you are smoking but additional you're not getting all the toxins from burnt plant matter. The down side is that if you've smoked the normal way long enough you've incorporated the "feel" of those toxins in with your high and so when you switch to a vaporizer it just doesn't "feel" the same. This can make it hard to stick with. Also the more affordable vaporizers tend to not work as well and the ones that do work well, know it and charge out the wahzoo for the right to own one. The best one out there goes by the name Volcano and you will have to pay between $400 and $700 dollars to own one and really anything under $500 should raise a red flag since it is said that the cost to the dealer is about $500
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
OK, everything is going good but here is my problem. I am in day 50 of flower, thought I had the mite prob solved prior to start of flower. Well, i didn't and they are rallying the fucking troops.

Should I cut early and chalk it up to a learning experience, cut early and make loads of edibles of BHO.

2nd part of this, when making BHO or edibles do I need to cure it the same?

Thank you

That's a tough call, if the mites aren't just totally over running things then I'd try to hang on if it's a 60 day strain by trying to use non toxic methods such as misting then with cold water and or trying to just sort of scrape them off. Trying to keep them from getting too strong a hold on any one spot. If it's a longer running strain then yeah you may just want to throw in the towel and chaulk it up to experience. Either way though you should thoroughly sterilize the area after the grow even then chances are good they'll be back.

If you're a little adventurous there are natural pesticides that are supposedly safe to humans but unfortunately they are only a little better then just cold water. In the future, if this turns out to be a persistent problem you make want to try buying some predator mites and/or lady bugs. They will feed on spider mites and not harm the plants. Also there are a some rather potent options out there that supposedly work well but are very expensive. Unfortunately I don't know the names of any. I think Flora Mite is one but I'm not sure.
 

IndianHay

Member
Okay well first of all what kind of light are we talking about here? That's a pretty small space. Keep in mind given a natural environment this plant is very comfortable growing in excess of 2-3 meters tall. You're trying to grow 3 plants in less then 1/4 that size space (40cmx60cmx70cm = roughly 16"x24"x28"). Now I'm wondering here being such a small space you shouldn't be needing to use a very strong light so I'm kind of thinking the cool tube is overkill or you're trying to put too strong of a light in too small of a space but if so you wouldn't be thinking some plants aren't getting enough light. Another thing that's working against you is all the fans. What you describe first off is way more then a space that size should need. Your space translates to approximately 6 cubic feet. The maximum rate of air exchange for cooling one should use is enough to completely exchange the air 5 times per minute or in this case roughly 35cfm's I believe most 120mm fans are rated for at least 50cfm's so one 120mm fan should be enough but you got 4. Also what you describe is called an active intake/active exhaust set up. That's a design that only really works in large spaces. In small spaces you want to use a passive intake/active exhaust. If the space is well sealed except for the intake and exhaust then when the fan sucks air out the negative pressure created by the space that air occupied will naturally draw air in thru the intake. In a confined space the active intake actually works against the exhaust by adding positive pressure and so heat doesn't get ventilated as efficiently. So you should lose the fans on the intake.

For that size space your light should really be in the form of cfl's, at the most maybe a 250W HID. None of those, with proper ventilation, should need a cool tube.

Personally, if I had to grow in a space that small I'd only be flowering one plant not three. Not that it can't be done but it's alot of work keeping plants small and healthy and the yield hardly seems worth all the effort and risk. In the end one bigger plant in that space will yield about the same amount as three smaller ones will, maybe even a little more and it'll be alot easier to care for. The down side being you'll have no variety and if you're a heavy smoker you'll run out before your next harvest although that would be true no matter how many plants you had in there.

To answer your question though, you should be able to remove the cool tube although I'm not sure you need a hood that'll also eat up space. I think ultimately your problem is going to be keeping the plants from growing into the light. The cool tube helps protect them from that but at the same time reduces the room for growth. If I were you I'd be looking for some way to relocate my grow to at least a closet where I have more room to work with and therefore more options. Although that would probably mean buying stronger more powerful lights and fans as well as additional pots, soil, nutrients, etc.

Hello!

In the box is negative pressure, because if I put lighter in front of just a little bit open doors the fire is sucked in the box. I have 150W MH (for flowering i will put in 150w HPS). So you are saying that i should remove those two fans for intake and just leave holes? I have allready decided which grow technique i will use and thats LST and some topping. I think i should try how temperatures changes without a cool tube and with 22cm fan pointed directly into the light. Maybe the good thing will be that fan, which now sucks air from cool tube will sucking air into the box. hmm...o man a dont know really what to do :D maybe i will add another fan for exhause so i will have 5 for exhaust, 2 for intake and one 22cm for pushing hot air into exhause fans. I think i will give it a go and see what happens without cool tube. Another option is to flip cool tube and light in opposite direction of that direction in which is now, but i think it will not fit, because the sice of the box and because the hose for cool tube should be either attached to cool tube and it takes a little bit more space. A have one little hood for lights...a will maybe this one or do some modification on the cool tube hood, whitch is bigger and a think more efficent.
 

G0d5hand

Member
Thank you for your reply. I actually bout a volcano 2 mounths ago hoping to help alleviate these problems and it has helped alittle but still my lungs feel it. It sucks. I love smoking, the habit is so enjoyable and the rewards for smoking pots great that I dont want to quit smoking. wish I could have it both ways, stay healthy and smoke, but to bad.
 

Rudedewd

Member
IH, I'm with HK on getting rid of your intake fans and also some of your exhaust fans as well. The passive intakes should be larger than your exhaust though so the air flows properly. If your intake holes are smaller or the same size as your exhaust then your fan won't work to it's potentual (notice I said fan, you really only need one exhaust fan working properly). A fan pointed at the light is a good idea though.
 

IndianHay

Member
hmm...i am very confused now! You are saying to remove intake fajn and just leave holes? And get rid of some exhaust fans? I dont know man...mh is very hot...maybe the problem is that i have all vents in the backer side of the box. I will just test and see how will be.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
hmm...i am very confused now! You are saying to remove intake fajn and just leave holes? And get rid of some exhaust fans? I dont know man...mh is very hot...maybe the problem is that i have all vents in the backer side of the box. I will just test and see how will be.

Yeah, like I said before you don't need the fans blowing in and you really only need one or two fans at most blowing out. If they are really weak fans that spin kind of slow (for computer case fans) then maybe you need 3 but beyond that I think you're just using more energy and making more noise then necessary. Also your intake should be low and on one end and your exhaust vent should be up above the light (because heat rises naturally you don't really have to help it rise). That way cool air is drawn in from one side at ground level (you want low because just like heat rises cool air falls to the ground) and up thru the plant up to the light and then out thru the exhaust. At least try it, as long as you're maintaining about 3 to 4 inches between the plant and the light you should be okay
 
HK,Thank you for the reply, I have mucho respect for guys that do this right. It sounds easy to grow a weed, but to do it right it is not. On this crop I have had numerous probs, but the mites are no joke. I even used floramite, hot shots pest stips, some other stuff from lowes's, sitting and rubbing them out, they are crazy tuff insects. Maybe I'll feel good about smoking or eating them, like, I gain there power by eating them. thanks again
 

IndianHay

Member
Ive tried that method to run it without a cool tube but the temperatures as higher than before. omg ive never had heat issues. What do you suggest to do? I think the onli option is cool tube, but if i mount that hose for outtake the last row of two plants will not get much light in fact almost nothing...what do you suggest?
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
HK,Thank you for the reply, I have mucho respect for guys that do this right. It sounds easy to grow a weed, but to do it right it is not. On this crop I have had numerous probs, but the mites are no joke. I even used floramite, hot shots pest stips, some other stuff from lowes's, sitting and rubbing them out, they are crazy tuff insects. Maybe I'll feel good about smoking or eating them, like, I gain there power by eating them. thanks again

Yeah mites are tough little bastards and they adapt very well allowing them to grow immune. So when it's time to attack them it's best to do it right, shock and awe :D Unfortunately people are reluctant to do this as it involves powerful elements. So they tend to go at it half heartedly. Those pest strips I think are a joke for example. I've tried putting them in a grow before a problem developed, with the intention of preventing fungus gnats from developing. Well two weeks into a grow, sure enough they were there and as I was observing this one fungus gnat landed right on the strip sat there a few moments and then flew off. I bet if I had pulled out my 30x loupe and looked at this I would have seen that bastard grab his little gnat balls and say, "I got your hotshot pest strip right here" :biglaugh: Seriously though, the things don't seem to work worth a damn. Now floramite surprises me because I thought I heard that stuff was good but maybe I'm confusing it with something else?

To be honest I've been blessed *knocks on wood* in that the only pests I've had to deal with indoors are gnats which unless you get massively infested they're more of a annoyance then a problem even if left untreated.

As for your comments about doing things right well first off thanks for the compliment inherent in that but really it is a weed and growing it is not that tough. It seems that way at first because most people are pretty far removed from growing things. There was a time long ago when virtually everyone was more familiar with and used to growing things. Back when man moved from the hunter/gatherer stage and into the agricultural stage. When we moved to the industrial stage and now onto the modern or hi-tech stage much of that has been forgotten for generations. So to many of us growing things feels awkward at first and seems complicated. Once you get into it for a while most quickly adapt after a few crops and it all becomes as second nature as breathing almost.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Ive tried that method to run it without a cool tube but the temperatures as higher than before. omg ive never had heat issues. What do you suggest to do? I think the onli option is cool tube, but if i mount that hose for outtake the last row of two plants will not get much light in fact almost nothing...what do you suggest?

What I've been suggesting all along, from what you said, you have not tried the ventilation configuration I've been telling you. If you have your intake and exhaust on the same wall your cool air coming in thru the intake is going to be sucked right back out by the exhaust trapping the heat. Thatat's why you had heat problems. The cool tube fixed the problem because most of the heat which comes from the light was being pushed out thru a seperate tube, so it was no longer being trapped.

I understand your reluctance to change things but you have a fundemental design flaw if your intake and exhaust are on the same wall of your box. If you insist on leaving it that way then you're forced to use the cool tube, period. Alas as you have observed, by doing so your plants are prevented from getting all the light they need. The only way out of that arrangement is to change the design of your box for better air flow.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Thank you for your reply. I actually bout a volcano 2 mounths ago hoping to help alleviate these problems and it has helped alittle but still my lungs feel it. It sucks. I love smoking, the habit is so enjoyable and the rewards for smoking pots great that I dont want to quit smoking. wish I could have it both ways, stay healthy and smoke, but to bad.

Your lungs are still going to feel it, in fact I find that a good vapor hit feels much more expansive then a hit from a bowl or joint. The important difference though is that along with that you're not getting all the bad stuff. Everyone I know that has used a vaporizer and stuck with it has reported that their "smoker's cough" went away and so did all the junk they coughed up with it. Now when I say smoker's cough I don't mean the coughing one might do if they take too big of a hit. I mean the kind that come up periodically throughout the day. They did say it took a couple of months for the junk to go away but until it did as time passed it decreased and looked less nasty.

If you do use your volcano for an extended period and don't see an improvement that might be indicative of other problems such as being around alot of second hand cigarette smoke for example. So you may want to examine your environment and see if there is any other potential causes for respiratory problems.
 

Joey56789

Member
Ok, here is something I have been wondering. Where should you measure your temps? My rubbermaid setup pulls air in through the bottom, and exhausts right out the top between the lights. If I put my temp probe somewhere in the middle, the temps are practically at ambient. They go up to around 10 degrees above ambient within an inch or two below the bulbs? So what measurement is important? Also, where do most people measure? (because I am wondering that as I compare my cooling efficiency to others)

Thanks!
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Ok, here is something I have been wondering. Where should you measure your temps? My rubbermaid setup pulls air in through the bottom, and exhausts right out the top between the lights. If I put my temp probe somewhere in the middle, the temps are practically at ambient. They go up to around 10 degrees above ambient within an inch or two below the bulbs? So what measurement is important? Also, where do most people measure? (because I am wondering that as I compare my cooling efficiency to others)

Thanks!

I can't speak for most people but where I measure it is just a few inches below the canopy (2-3"). The meter I use has a long probe attached to it for using it as an indoor/outdoor meter (the probe measures the outdoor temp). The directions say not to hang the probe in direct light so I hang it from one of the leaves near the top so that the top most leaves shade it. What temp the plant feels is what's important. Some people do take multiple readings to come up with an average but if your temp is good at the top then it should be good all the way down the plant.
 

alk_loid

Member
hey hempkat. help me out with one question.
should i cut off some leaves when flowering to get light to the lower budsites?

or should i let them grow full, & only get upper buds exposed directly to light and hope smaller and ones who are under leaves etc grow normally?
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
hey hempkat. help me out with one question.
should i cut off some leaves when flowering to get light to the lower budsites?

or should i let them grow full, & only get upper buds exposed directly to light and hope smaller and ones who are under leaves etc grow normally?

That's a tough call, on the one hand if light is blocked from reaching into the depths of a plant the lower buds there will not grow very big. The further, more blocked from light, the smaller the buds will be. Trimming the upper leaves away will allow the lower buds to get more direct light and grow bigger. The problem is, those big leaves up at the top aren't just sitting there blocking light in order to be mean to the lower buds. They are in fact the work horses of the plant doing the majority of the photosynthesizing. If you cut these leaves off you are seriously degrading the plant's ability to photosynthesize. Sure the lower leaves that are now exposed will pick up some of the slack but lower leaves tend to be smaller then their light blocking counterparts in the canopy. The upper leaves don't grow big just because they are at the top. They grow big to absorb as much of the energy at the canopy (where it's stongest) as possible. The smaller lower leaves being smaller can't do as much due to their smaller size.

I say that if it's at all possible you would be better served trying to spread the branches as open as possible to allow the light to penetrate deeper without having to cut anything off. That being said there are plenty of folks who have trimmed upper leaves to get better bud growth and they got great results for their efforts.

One thing to keep in mind. Just because you trim leaves it doesn't make the light any stronger. The reason lower bud might be small may have more to do with the size of the plant and how far the light has to travel to get to the lower buds. The strength of the light relative to the plant is four times weaker at two feet then it is at 1 foot. At 4 feet from the light it's 16 times weaker. So based on that, if the lower buds that you feel aren't getting much light are several feet from the light (3-4 feet for a 1000W light) then even if you trim the leaves away the buds will not get much bigger.

Outdoors this is less of a problem, the same distance rules apply to energy from the sun but the light from the sun has travelled so far that it's strength is virtually the same for the entire length of the plant, no matter how tall the plant is and even though that energy has travelled millions of miles it's still stronger then the lights we use.
 
B

BigTex

Hey hempcat:D how you doin? Got a Q for you. I am starting Blueberry, Super Skunk, White Russian, and fem White Rhino indoors and gonna transplant em into the ground (weather permitting) around April 15, when the daylength is 13.00 hrs. I started my beans soaking yesterday and just got em planted a few moments ago. Okay my question is,----How long should I set my timer for?---I don't want them to flower early. I've done this before succesfully with 13.5 hrs. I would just like your professional opinion in this cause this was my first seed purchase and I want those lil babies to have every advantage. Your help is always much appreciated:D

P.S.- I'm at N 32 latitude . Not sure if that will be of any help.
 
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HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Hey hempcat:D how you doin? Got a Q for you. I am starting Blueberry, Super Skunk, White Russian, and fem White Rhino indoors and gonna transplant em into the ground (weather permitting) around April 15, when the daylength is 13.00 hrs. I started my beans soaking yesterday and just got em planted a few moments ago. Okay my question is,----How long should I set my timer for?---I don't want them to flower early. I've done this before succesfully with 13.5 hrs. I would just like your professional opinion in this cause this was my first seed purchase and I want those lil babies to have every advantage. Your help is always much appreciated:D

P.S.- I'm at N 32 latitude . Not sure if that will be of any help.

Well first of all I'm not a professional as I don't make money doing this but thanks for the compliment inherent in that. :smile: Technically anything above 12 hours should keep them from flowering but it's also strain related. Sativa strains can probably handle getting close to that 12 hour mark without flowering since their daylight time in their natural environment doesn't shift as much as it does north and south of the equator. Conversely indica strains typically coming from more northern lattitudes are more sensitive and I usually say it's best to go no closer then a 14 hour lights on to avoid any chance of an unwanted shift to flower. If you've done 13.5 before and these strains aren't much different (sativa Dom / Indica Dom) then 13.5 should work. I'm guessing the reason for this is to avoid the plant going to flower briefly, then revertting to veg and thereby lose valuable growing time?

That being the case I'd say you would ideally want the time to be equal to the time of daylight of the point you plan to move them outside, maybe even slightly less? That way the plant sees the same length of light or that the length is getting longer (although actually a plant looks at the length of the dark period to trigger reactions, not the length of the light). The tricky thing about outdoors is that you can't just go by the daylight, there are other things that can alter what the plant sees thru shadow or by artificial light. So it's about location and environment as well. The best we can do is to try to put them out at the best point possible which is harder these days when you see the weather go from sunny and in the 70's in February and then a week later in Mar you got artic temps and snow. It's a crazy mixed up world these days. You kind just have to look at the patterns for your area and go with your gut feeling of when it's right.
 
Hullo there old gents.

Does FFOF 'go bad' over time? I've got one bag that's about a year old and was stored inside, and another that was stored in the garage but had been opened. Are these any good, or should I just buy new?

Thanks.
 
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