tennesseetoker
Member
Time is everything dont get rushed to do shit(trimming, watering, nutes).
Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?
- Thread starter HempKat
- Start date
Think before you add something to you plants, measure properly correct dose
Actually cutting off an entire branch during flower is another form of stress that could bring out the hermie trait more.
Nothing really because when I started out I had a friend helping me every step of the way. When I say friend though I don't mean like the typical buddy that's usually the same age or close to it. I mean an older friend that was an experienced grower and like a mentor of sorts.
What I have more of now that would have been nice to have back then though is patience. :smile:
tennesseetoker
Member
shit, i didn't cut it your right thanks for all your help hempkat.
No problem and just an observation, you seem to be stressing every single little detail every day and while technically there is nothing wrong with that, it sure can't be much fun. Growing marijuana is not that difficult. Give it 18 hours of light and 6 hours of dark for veg, switch to 12 hours light and 12 hours dark when you are ready to flower, water/feed consistently, provide them a nitrogen rich diet in veg and a phospherous and potassium rich diet in flower. Keep temps at 75-80 degrees F during lights on and try to have the temps around 60-65 degrees F during lights out. Try to keep RH (relative humidity) in the 50% range during lights on and the 30% range during lights off. Finally make sure it has good ventilation and air circulation.
Do those things and you should have a fairly successful crop and it should feel like it almost runs itself. Don't fret over every leaf or every blemish, pay attention for sure but realize it is rare to have a plant go full cycle to harvest and not show any blemish or sign of a problem along the way. Marijuana is an efficient plant and when parts of a plant get so shaded by upper growth or other plants they die and drop off. Otherwise they're taking energy that the plant collects but not collecting any on it's own or very little. The plant if in an active growing phase, will sacrifice the lower leaves not doing any work in favor of the upper leaves bring all the energy in. As those leave die off they can look horrible but it is good in a way to just let them drop as leaves will store nutrients and moisture in the leaves and as the leaf dies off the plant recovers what's stored there. If the leaf is completely dry though it's okay to remove them, sometimes they just won't drop. The way marijuana grows it's virtually impossible to grow a plant that never loses any leaves, at least with overhead lighting.
Growing ultimately should be fun and relaxing.
tennesseetoker
Member
I'm going to chill out just let the good times roll. Thanks again
Okay just don't chill so much that you go to the other extreme and neglect things.
tennesseetoker
Member
Thanks Hempkat, when they get closer to harvest I'll post some pics. Currently on day 29 you've help a lot. This thread is priceless!
G
Gobwats
There is no such thing as a perfect grow; every grow will present some challenges. The secret to becoming a competent grower is learning how to turn fuck ups into something better
EnZee
Active member
heya hempkat! i got a question for ya..
me and a partner are growing and have started to use a sulfur burner.
the room is a 20x12 with 12 foot ceilings. luxury huh. lol.
The question we have for you is after we use the sulfur burner, my partner thinks we are meant to mist the plants down like a week later to remove the sulfur from the plant. but i always thought you want to leave that coating on the leaves?...
thanx for the advice, will check back soon!
peace!
me and a partner are growing and have started to use a sulfur burner.
the room is a 20x12 with 12 foot ceilings. luxury huh. lol.
The question we have for you is after we use the sulfur burner, my partner thinks we are meant to mist the plants down like a week later to remove the sulfur from the plant. but i always thought you want to leave that coating on the leaves?...
thanx for the advice, will check back soon!
peace!
There is no such thing as a perfect grow; every grow will present some challenges. The secret to becoming a competent grower is learning how to turn fuck ups into something better
Boy do I have a lot to learn ;>}
I seem to be fukin up quite a bit ;>}
tennesseetoker
Member
whats been going wrong?
There is no such thing as a perfect grow; every grow will present some challenges. The secret to becoming a competent grower is learning how to turn fuck ups into something better
Actually if you want to be technical, there's no perfect anything. :smile: Fortunately since perfection is more of a conceptual rather then true state of being, it is possible to achieve a personal sense of perfection.
I don't know, 60 grows seems kind of high, I'd say it shouldn't take more then a half dozen grows at most for most people.
Sorry I've never used sulpher in my grows and I've only heard a few mention using sulfur burners but not in any detailed way. I know it's for a specific situation and not something for all grows. Personally I don't like things like that, which drift too far from nature, sulfur burners, ozone generators, etc. They may work but it seems to me once you go down that path running a grow becomes way more complicated then it should or needs to be.
Foliar Feeding
Foliar Feeding
If you've been paying attention for the last few pages you can see where a disagreement between me and Boo started over the use of foliar feeding in flower. My position is I don't like it and the risks outweigh the benefits unless you have a really solid ventilation system. Which unless you live somewhere where a top notch ventilation system is needed then the cost of that may outweigh the benefits. Boo's position is he recently finished a foliar treatment program in flower and he say a noticeable improvement over not using it.
Because of his positive experience Boo had some difficulty accepting my view. So he questioned me on it and didn't like my answers. What should have been a public debate in the thread broke down into an arguement in PM which has now lead to negative feelings from Boo towards me. Normally I'd just let it go and not mention it further as people often have strong feelings about the methods they use and arguements over what's best is very common. Often these arguements come from people who don't share much until they see something they take exception with. I usually don't feel it's worth the time arguing over style with someone I don't really interact with.
This time however I'm in such a situation with someone whom I have known online in these canna sites for several years now and for whom I have a great deal of respect as a fellow grower. Boo is about 10 years older then me and therefore he is 10 years more experienced. He is however only human and therefore he's not infallible. I say that because I want to try to clear up possible misconceptions yet ultimately I'm not changing my position on foliar feeding.
Foliar feeding is a method by which one can give a plant water and/or nutrients by spray water or a water/nutrient mix, onto the leaves of a plant as opposed to watering the roots. Plants can take in moisture and nutrients this way but it's a secondary or backup mechanism and not the primary or prefered method of feeding. To compare it to something on a human level, when you're dehydrated and in a state where you can't drink there is an effective alternative of rehydrating someone called subcutaneous injections. This is when water is injected just under the skin and then absorbed into the body. Now while it is an effective way to rehydrate someone that doesn't mean walking around with a needle and a vial of water so you can give yourself subcutaneous injections is a good idea. The prefered and primary method of introducing fluids to your body is to drink them via your mouth. Foliar is like that the leaves can take in nutrients applied via a foliar treatment but the prefered method for nutrient uptake is thru the roots. Another example, this time from the plant world is the practice of cutting off leaves that are shading buds to allow more light to get to the buds. Anything green on a plant is capable of photosynthesis but not all green plant parts photosynthesize at the same rate. A big, broad, flat, fan leaf is much more capable and better designed to harvest light energy then the smaller leaves and rounded shape of a bud. So yes if you cut off the fan leaves you might still see good bud growth but it's better to leave the fan leaves on and let them gather more energy then the less efficient at photosynthesizing, bud.
Now it's not all about just doing things the way the plant was designed. Some of my objections are particular to the situation that was being discussed (overwatered plants suffering from a ph imbalance, nutrient lock out and perhaps the beginning of root rot) It also had to do with the person who had that problem. A relatively new grower with perhaps not much money to work with. He had asked about the possibility of foliar feeding while he was getting the problem in his soil straightened out so they would be able to keep recieving nutrients. I advised against foliar feeding because the number one priority in that case was to get the soil right. Foliar feeding would just slow that down. I also advised against it because foliar feeding can be done successfully as proven by Boo, but only when conditions can be made compatible thru good ventilation and tempurature control. The person with the problem didn't sound like he had that or the money to buy the equipment to give him that. Then there was the fact that the grower in question was relatively inexperienced and I didn't think it a good idea to encourage him to try things that could lead to other problems such as bud rot.
I tried explaining all that to Boo but somehow those things didn't mean anything and all he could see or hear was what he apparently felt was an attack on his style and his knowledge. Boo as I said is an experienced grower, he's had a long time to twak and fine tune his method and his setup. He does live in an area where even without foliar feeding he needs better then average ventilation and cooling. It's being able to cope with the weather of his region that also enables him to use a foliar treatment plan without fear of bud rot. He even acknowledge in his posts earlier in this thread that because of his fans and what not he can keep conditions to where bud rot isn't an issue. He did make one mistake I feel in the analysis of his results though which I pointed out and maybe that's why he see's it as a personal attack? Basically he did one grow with this foliar method and saw and improvement in trichome production. Since he didn't specify I can only assume he used the same strain, same style of growing, same posts, same light, same water source etc. In such a situation where only one thing is different it's understandable that a person would conclude and different results are directly connected to that one difference. Which in fact, may or may not be true. I completed a grow recently where I was working with strains I had grown before and everything was the same except for temps were higher then I like and I didn't use blackstrap molasses as a supplement to my watering/feeding routine. The grow didn't do as well as usual. Now the fact that temps were higher wasn't due to a change in any physical aspect of the grow it was because my grow room is set up to run in the winter. I had some delays that put my grow into warmer weather that the growroom isn't meant to handle. The only actual change in what I used though was that I didn't use molasses. Now I could look at that and say, "Well I didn't use molasses and that's why my grow didn't go well". More likely though is that the increased heat evaporated more of the water leaving less for the plant to work with.
When trying something new you can't just do it once and say your results prove anything. In Boo's case what was new was the foliar treatment and the nutrients used in that treatment. So it could be the foliar treatment, or it could be the nutrients or it could be some other variable altered/triggered by the foliar treatment. I tried to point out that his claim of this products success is unproven and one way to better prove it would be to do another run where the top max is applied to the soil rather then as a foliar application. If the results ended up the same it would be more fair to say the product and not how it is applied made the difference. If on the other hand the foliar method ended up working better it would suggest it was the method of application that made the difference. It would also then need further testing using just a normal feeding routine thru the soil combined with foliar treatments of just water. If that grow ened up getting good results one could conclude that the top max had nothing to do with it but rather it was the foliar treatment.
Ultimately this disagreement between me and Boo highlights something I've said all along. There is no one best method for all growers but rather one best method for each individual grower. So arguements over soil vs hydro, water vs foliar feeding, HPS vs MH, etc are all pretty foolish because what's best depends on each individuals, wants, needs, and abilities. If there was one best method guarenteed to work for anyone but it cost $1000 then it's not the best method for a poor person.
In closing I would like to say to Boo, I'm sorry if my opinion and view on foliar feeding offended you somehow. It wasn't meant to because at the time I said that I wasn't talking to you nor was I aware you had such strong feelings about it. I have alot of respect for you and value your input, even though I don't always agree with it.
Foliar Feeding
If you've been paying attention for the last few pages you can see where a disagreement between me and Boo started over the use of foliar feeding in flower. My position is I don't like it and the risks outweigh the benefits unless you have a really solid ventilation system. Which unless you live somewhere where a top notch ventilation system is needed then the cost of that may outweigh the benefits. Boo's position is he recently finished a foliar treatment program in flower and he say a noticeable improvement over not using it.
Because of his positive experience Boo had some difficulty accepting my view. So he questioned me on it and didn't like my answers. What should have been a public debate in the thread broke down into an arguement in PM which has now lead to negative feelings from Boo towards me. Normally I'd just let it go and not mention it further as people often have strong feelings about the methods they use and arguements over what's best is very common. Often these arguements come from people who don't share much until they see something they take exception with. I usually don't feel it's worth the time arguing over style with someone I don't really interact with.
This time however I'm in such a situation with someone whom I have known online in these canna sites for several years now and for whom I have a great deal of respect as a fellow grower. Boo is about 10 years older then me and therefore he is 10 years more experienced. He is however only human and therefore he's not infallible. I say that because I want to try to clear up possible misconceptions yet ultimately I'm not changing my position on foliar feeding.
Foliar feeding is a method by which one can give a plant water and/or nutrients by spray water or a water/nutrient mix, onto the leaves of a plant as opposed to watering the roots. Plants can take in moisture and nutrients this way but it's a secondary or backup mechanism and not the primary or prefered method of feeding. To compare it to something on a human level, when you're dehydrated and in a state where you can't drink there is an effective alternative of rehydrating someone called subcutaneous injections. This is when water is injected just under the skin and then absorbed into the body. Now while it is an effective way to rehydrate someone that doesn't mean walking around with a needle and a vial of water so you can give yourself subcutaneous injections is a good idea. The prefered and primary method of introducing fluids to your body is to drink them via your mouth. Foliar is like that the leaves can take in nutrients applied via a foliar treatment but the prefered method for nutrient uptake is thru the roots. Another example, this time from the plant world is the practice of cutting off leaves that are shading buds to allow more light to get to the buds. Anything green on a plant is capable of photosynthesis but not all green plant parts photosynthesize at the same rate. A big, broad, flat, fan leaf is much more capable and better designed to harvest light energy then the smaller leaves and rounded shape of a bud. So yes if you cut off the fan leaves you might still see good bud growth but it's better to leave the fan leaves on and let them gather more energy then the less efficient at photosynthesizing, bud.
Now it's not all about just doing things the way the plant was designed. Some of my objections are particular to the situation that was being discussed (overwatered plants suffering from a ph imbalance, nutrient lock out and perhaps the beginning of root rot) It also had to do with the person who had that problem. A relatively new grower with perhaps not much money to work with. He had asked about the possibility of foliar feeding while he was getting the problem in his soil straightened out so they would be able to keep recieving nutrients. I advised against foliar feeding because the number one priority in that case was to get the soil right. Foliar feeding would just slow that down. I also advised against it because foliar feeding can be done successfully as proven by Boo, but only when conditions can be made compatible thru good ventilation and tempurature control. The person with the problem didn't sound like he had that or the money to buy the equipment to give him that. Then there was the fact that the grower in question was relatively inexperienced and I didn't think it a good idea to encourage him to try things that could lead to other problems such as bud rot.
I tried explaining all that to Boo but somehow those things didn't mean anything and all he could see or hear was what he apparently felt was an attack on his style and his knowledge. Boo as I said is an experienced grower, he's had a long time to twak and fine tune his method and his setup. He does live in an area where even without foliar feeding he needs better then average ventilation and cooling. It's being able to cope with the weather of his region that also enables him to use a foliar treatment plan without fear of bud rot. He even acknowledge in his posts earlier in this thread that because of his fans and what not he can keep conditions to where bud rot isn't an issue. He did make one mistake I feel in the analysis of his results though which I pointed out and maybe that's why he see's it as a personal attack? Basically he did one grow with this foliar method and saw and improvement in trichome production. Since he didn't specify I can only assume he used the same strain, same style of growing, same posts, same light, same water source etc. In such a situation where only one thing is different it's understandable that a person would conclude and different results are directly connected to that one difference. Which in fact, may or may not be true. I completed a grow recently where I was working with strains I had grown before and everything was the same except for temps were higher then I like and I didn't use blackstrap molasses as a supplement to my watering/feeding routine. The grow didn't do as well as usual. Now the fact that temps were higher wasn't due to a change in any physical aspect of the grow it was because my grow room is set up to run in the winter. I had some delays that put my grow into warmer weather that the growroom isn't meant to handle. The only actual change in what I used though was that I didn't use molasses. Now I could look at that and say, "Well I didn't use molasses and that's why my grow didn't go well". More likely though is that the increased heat evaporated more of the water leaving less for the plant to work with.
When trying something new you can't just do it once and say your results prove anything. In Boo's case what was new was the foliar treatment and the nutrients used in that treatment. So it could be the foliar treatment, or it could be the nutrients or it could be some other variable altered/triggered by the foliar treatment. I tried to point out that his claim of this products success is unproven and one way to better prove it would be to do another run where the top max is applied to the soil rather then as a foliar application. If the results ended up the same it would be more fair to say the product and not how it is applied made the difference. If on the other hand the foliar method ended up working better it would suggest it was the method of application that made the difference. It would also then need further testing using just a normal feeding routine thru the soil combined with foliar treatments of just water. If that grow ened up getting good results one could conclude that the top max had nothing to do with it but rather it was the foliar treatment.
Ultimately this disagreement between me and Boo highlights something I've said all along. There is no one best method for all growers but rather one best method for each individual grower. So arguements over soil vs hydro, water vs foliar feeding, HPS vs MH, etc are all pretty foolish because what's best depends on each individuals, wants, needs, and abilities. If there was one best method guarenteed to work for anyone but it cost $1000 then it's not the best method for a poor person.
In closing I would like to say to Boo, I'm sorry if my opinion and view on foliar feeding offended you somehow. It wasn't meant to because at the time I said that I wasn't talking to you nor was I aware you had such strong feelings about it. I have alot of respect for you and value your input, even though I don't always agree with it.
G
Gobwats
Actually if you want to be technical, there's no perfect anything. :smile: Fortunately since perfection is more of a conceptual rather then true state of being, it is possible to achieve a personal sense of perfection.
May just be me reading things into that statement (sitting here passing time until I go in to surgery to have a toe amputated, 'nuff said) but that sounds a lot like settling for less than is possible. Been sticking seeds in dirt since the early 70's along with knowing quite a few others doing the same thing, and have managed to learn something from every cycle. Yep, perfection is just a concept, but you come a lot closer to achieving it if you never settle for good enough. Enough philosophy, I'm ready for the happy juice
May just be me reading things into that statement (sitting here passing time until I go in to surgery to have a toe amputated, 'nuff said) but that sounds a lot like settling for less than is possible. Been sticking seeds in dirt since the early 70's along with knowing quite a few others doing the same thing, and have managed to learn something from every cycle. Yep, perfection is just a concept, but you come a lot closer to achieving it if you never settle for good enough. Enough philosophy, I'm ready for the happy juice
What I was trying to get at is there is no one all encompassing state of perfection for everyone. Not even heaven which is essentially the embodiment of perfection (if you believe in heaven), as there are people who will not get into heaven so for them it's not perfect. I was then trying to take that a step further because by itself one might say "well if nothing is perfect then why try for perfection?" So I went on to say "fortunately we can all achieve our own personal levels of perfection." Meaning there is perfect for each of us although what's perfect for me may not be perfect for the next person. For example, some growers are very hands on people, they like to have as much control over every single aspect as possible and to them they enjoy always tweaking and testing things. For them a hydro set up in a sealed rome with CO2 enrichment and the ability to monitor and regulate temps, humidity, CO2 levels, etc. is usually their idea of a perfect grow setup. Now another grower may not like all that, he/she may prefer to just have a decent room with good ventilation and a grow where he/she just puts the seed in a pot and waters and adjust the lights as need every few days. For that person, especially if they're busy, a highly involved setup might be more of a nightmare then perfection.
I felt the need to make the destinction because you see alot of colorful descriptions of things with words like perfect, ultimate, holy grail, etc. Just in the few years I've been online at these canna sites I've seen dozens of strains hyped as the holy grail which is like saying this is the last strain anyone ever needs. If there was a true holy grail of weed out there, there would be only one and once found nobody would look for others.
Oh and by the way, perfection and learning something new don't go hand in hand. You could have something that is considered perfect and still not know all there is to know about it and therefore be able to learn something new every cycle. :smile:
I hope the surgery goes well and you have a speedy recovery with as little discomfort as possible.
