Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[boo]

HK, you've known me for years and also know I can pop a bud here and there...the 25% increase in size, density, and trich production was documented...there is no embellishment on my claims as I weighed and measured thruout the cycle...same genetics and same soil composition...only change was the heavy application of the topmax...why would you dismiss how it works until you try it...I have mad air movement and constant air temps so mildew as initially posted isn't a problem...if the plant uptakes nutes thru a different source, why not take advantage of that delivery system...all my grows stay at a 24/7 constant of 78 degrees so the trichs are an every day affair...you seem to doubt the results a bit too easily...why...

 

[noproblempablo]

Flushed Saturday

Flushed Saturday

OK, so I flushed my plants late Saturday night with 6 plus gallons of water each in the 3 gallon pots. After they drained I watered to runoff using the previously posted H202 chart recommendation of 1/2 cup per gallon of water. Now it's Tuesday morning and they have gotten worse. Do I need to flush again or am i just doomed ta this point? They looked like they had stopped regressing on Monday but now they look a lot worse.

 

[tennesseetoker]

From everything I've read plants can take a lot of abuse. Time will probably be best for them just let them dry out good. Sorry, that sucks.


Hempkat, I wanted to start to foliar feed with my foxfarm big bud and was wondering where to have my ph at and was wondering about all the hype about doing watering in the morning or any other rumors if it is. or what not just lookin for your advise.

 

[Gold123]

OK, so I flushed my plants late Saturday night with 6 plus gallons of water each in the 3 gallon pots. After they drained I watered to runoff using the previously posted H202 chart recommendation of 1/2 cup per gallon of water. Now it's Tuesday morning and they have gotten worse. Do I need to flush again or am i just doomed ta this point? They looked like they had stopped regressing on Monday but now they look a lot worse.

Don't flush again let them dry out. Make sure you have good air circulation.

 

[HempKat]

HK, you've known me for years and also know I can pop a bud here and there...the 25% increase in size, density, and trich production was documented...there is no embellishment on my claims as I weighed and measured thruout the cycle...same genetics and same soil composition...only change was the heavy application of the topmax...why would you dismiss how it works until you try it...I have mad air movement and constant air temps so mildew as initially posted isn't a problem...if the plant uptakes nutes thru a different source, why not take advantage of that delivery system...all my grows stay at a 24/7 constant of 78 degrees so the trichs are an every day affair...you seem to doubt the results a bit too easily...why...

Dude, chill I'm not saying your claims of 25% increase is false first of all. I'm questioning what the cause is. I have no knowledge of what is in this topmax so I can't really make a call on it one way or another. For me to be convinced it was just the topmax I would need to see what kind of results those nutrients in topmax give when delivered thru the roots rather then the leaves. What I was questioning though is that you were saying it's foliar feeding that gave you the 25% increase when elsewhere you were saying it was the topmax. I understand it's meant to be applied as a foliar but that doesn't mean everyone that foliar feeds uses topmax, foliar can even mean just plain water.

I'm also pointing out that regardless of results plants were not designed to get their nutritional needs thru the leaves, not in that sense anyway. Leaves are meant to act much like solar panels and capture the energy from the sun thru photosynthesis. When the sun is not shining plants use the leaves for respiration and transpiration. It's possible though that things could cause a beneficial effect without being the direct cause because I can tell you without a doubt I've seen a significant increase in trichomes just from getting the temps and humidity in a certain range. It's also documented in the original OverGrow growFAQ that temp, humidity and uv radiation are three things you can adjust in a grow to get more trichomes. No foliar applications needed. What if, and I'm not saying this was your case, but what if you just tweaked something in your ventilation/cooling that brought the growroom into the ideal temp/humidity range and the first grow after that tweak was when you used the topmax. The improvement could be caused by the tweak to humidity/temps but be mistook for being the result of topmax. I question feeding the plants that way because plants aren't really meant to feed that way. So if they do work as a foliar, they should work even better when delivered into the root zone.

There's also one other reason I'm saying I wouldn't do the foliar thing in this particular discussion with another grower who is not as experienced and/or perhaps not as well equipped? You yourself have acknowledged twice that part of your success is that you have a good enough system to do it without PM issues or bud rot or other problems one might have with poor or weak ventilation. You however have been doing this for sometime, enough to earn youprofessional or advanced or expert status, you're no beginner. For a beginner whith plants that have been having issues what's better? Telling them about a method that requires them to beef up their grow or telling them to avoid foliar applications during flower?

In other words just because something works, doesn't mean it's the best answer for everyone. I'm not knocking topmax but anytime anyone says something like "Use this and I guarentee you'll get XX% better results" warning flags go off in my head. There is no silver bullet, no one surefire, magical, guarenteed potion. What matters most is real, down to earth, basic gardening. Know what you're growing and then do your best to give what you're growing the right environment. You've done that thru your mastery of growing, so in a way I'm saying you should give yourself more credit for that 25% increase and not the topmax. So no need for you to get defensive or act like I'm being critical of you in some way.

 

[HempKat]

OK, so I flushed my plants late Saturday night with 6 plus gallons of water each in the 3 gallon pots. After they drained I watered to runoff using the previously posted H202 chart recommendation of 1/2 cup per gallon of water. Now it's Tuesday morning and they have gotten worse. Do I need to flush again or am i just doomed ta this point? They looked like they had stopped regressing on Monday but now they look a lot worse.

I think you are looking for things to change to quickly. Also don't expect what looks bad now to suddenly look better. Damaged leaves usually stay damaged and eventually die off. You need to look at new growth to see results. I'd not be expecting to see much noticable improvement for a good 3 to 4 days. If the root system got badly damaged from being saturated for too long then the plant will first need to work on the roots. Which is a problem in your case because you're already 3+ weeks into flower and at that point root production slows and bud production usually ramps up.

Also 1/2 a cup seems awful strong to me. Like I said I haven't used it myself so I don't know the right amounts. I have seen people talk about it though and could have sworn it was talked about in terms of tablespoons per gallon?

 

[HempKat]

From everything I've read plants can take a lot of abuse. Time will probably be best for them just let them dry out good. Sorry, that sucks.


Hempkat, I wanted to start to foliar feed with my foxfarm big bud and was wondering where to have my ph at and was wondering about all the hype about doing watering in the morning or any other rumors if it is. or what not just lookin for your advise.

Well like I've been saying, I'm not a big fan of foliar feeding. I do give foliar applications of water throughout veg and during the first 3 weeks of flower but once the bud clusters start forming I stop. In the past I did foliar treatments using a product called liquid karma and never saw any benefit over foliar treatments of just water. I would say that if you do foliar applications you should set the ph the same as the ph you keep the soil or whatever you grow in. Reason being that the plant is adjusted to seeing that ph and likely you're foliar treatment is going to drip into the soil or whatever and you wouldn't want your foliar treatment to cause the ph in your root area to change.

As far as when to water, well my advise is this, do it at a time and in a way that you can stick to your schedule and be comfortable with it. There are suggested times to do things based on the rhythms we see in nature but I'm not so sure it's critical. Some people say you'll get better results if you water in sync with the lunar cycles. This may of may not be true but I've never watered based on anything other then whatever schedule I make for myself when I have an active grow going.

 

[tennesseetoker]

I appreciate it hempkat i might just hold off. i just started my 3 week with buds its just that the whole bud rot thing really bothers me. I feel that spraying water on the buds that have some good frosty leaves would just take away from those thc crystals.

 

[burnedout]

Question

If you have a 10 plant flowering limit, what type of setup would you design/use to produce the most quality herb each month? I was thinking 2 identical 5 plant rooms on a flip each with 2 1k lights hung vertically. Goal is 5lbs a month, is that possible?

 

[HempKat]

I appreciate it hempkat i might just hold off. i just started my 3 week with buds its just that the whole bud rot thing really bothers me. I feel that spraying water on the buds that have some good frosty leaves would just take away from those thc crystals.

I wouldn't be worried that spraying plants would take away from trichomes that are already there. If it weren't for the risk of bud rot I would probably continue to mist along with regular waterings all thru flower. But for me when I say mist I mean just water. When it's regular water then misting is nothing more then rain to the plant. Of course mother nature has a better ventilation system to avoid bud rot.

 

[tennesseetoker]

yeah i agree i just keep mt closet door open with a good box fan I can only assume that it has proper air flow its all good though.

 

[HempKat]

Question

If you have a 10 plant flowering limit, what type of setup would you design/use to produce the most quality herb each month? I was thinking 2 identical 5 plant rooms on a flip each with 2 1k lights hung vertically. Goal is 5lbs a month, is that possible?

Yeah it's possible and what you're suggesting sounds good. It will possibly take you a couple of grows to fine tune things but yeah, with 2k worth of light on 5 plants you shold get some pretty big plants which is what you would need to pull 5lbs a month.

Of course that means one pound per plant which is doable but it takes a good bit of skill indoors from what I've heard. Your operational costs will be kind of high facturing in electric use and equipment costs. Also pulling harvesting once a month keeps you on a tight schedule and any deviations on a crop could throw it all out of whack.

Given your limits and time constraints I can't really see where you have any other viable option. SoG could meet your weight and time limits but you'd have to go many times over the limit in plant numbers. ScrOG could do it maybe with the required number but is more tedious and more likely to disrupt the schedule you want to keep.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

OK, so I flushed my plants late Saturday night with 6 plus gallons of water each in the 3 gallon pots. After they drained I watered to runoff using the previously posted H202 chart recommendation of 1/2 cup per gallon of water. Now it's Tuesday morning and they have gotten worse. Do I need to flush again or am i just doomed ta this point? They looked like they had stopped regressing on Monday but now they look a lot worse.

I don't know what chart you were looking at, but it isn't even close at any percentage solution. I might have, just maybe, stated what I have been using for years as a h2o2 dosage with good luck. May have even PMed it? (shrug)
For the record, I always use 30ml, which is right at one ounce, per gallon of water. Unless a root rot/slime issue occurs and then it's 60ml per gal.
There are 4 ounces in 1/2 cup, which is 240ml. Now, hopefully you used 3% h2o2 and not hydro store stuff, which is 10 times stronger.

 

[noproblempablo]

I did use the 3% h202, I at least got that part right I guess. The chart I am referring to was a link posted by another user (gardening with h202) while we were going back and forth about my issues. Could the larger amount of h202 have exacerbated my problem? Can I do anything to fix that? I'm torturing these poor things. Thanks again!

 

[hoosierdaddy]

let them dry
Repotting in fresh soil may help.

 

[noproblempablo]

Too many chemical fertilizers (salts) can be a bad thing and can cause toxicity in the plant. Toxicity usually exists with an over-watering problem, as they go hand-in-hand.
When you first try to correct an over-watering/toxicity problem, the first thing you want to do is rid the medium of any salts that may have built up, as well as any sort of anaerobic bacteria or pathogens. You can do this with straight water, but be sure it is within pH range.
Whenever any problem exists, it is a good idea to flush the plant before anything else. You want a fresh clean slate, so to speak.

The amount you use is usually determined by the size of the pot. As a generality, you want to used about twice the amount of water as the pot could hold. In other words, a 2 gallon pot should get a 4 gallon flush with pH correct water, when trying to correct an ailment.

Once you have the medium flushed of built up salts and toxic materials, I suggest you immediately water until run-off with the water with 30mg/gal of 3%h2o2. Water till run-off means that you have provided the pot with the most water it can hold and the medium is totally saturated and it just starts to run out the bottom of the pot.
This treatment directly after the flush will do a couple of things..it will invigorate the root zone with much oxygen. This same oxygen will also help to rid any remaining anaerobic bacteria in the medium.
Once this is done, then the wait till the pot is light regimen begins.

Once you have done all this, and the pot is light (and you WILL know what we mean by this once you start doing it) you want to water with a fresh batch of nutrients. Experiment with the pot and pour slowly a little at a time until you just start to see water coming out the bottom, and stop.
Watering each time this way insures that you push any salts from the previous watering out.

And I suggest you only feed your nutrient solution every other watering or so. Less is better, and I am convinced...and you may find that 1/2 strength is far more economical and effective.

Many growers will do the above flush thing two or three times during the grow to insure a healthy medium, and always do this about two weeks before the plant is to be finished...and feed nothing but pH correct water from then on out!

I reread this post and was wondering if maybe I need to flush more. I did 6+ gallons of ph correct water on each 3 gallon pot and immediately watered with h202 solution to runoff afterward. I had been over watering and overfeeding with organic fertilizer. When should I expect them to stop deteriorating if I have solved the problem?

 

[Gold123]

I don't know what chart you were looking at, but it isn't even close at any percentage solution. I might have, just maybe, stated what I have been using for years as a h2o2 dosage with good luck. May have even PMed it? (shrug)
For the record, I always use 30ml, which is right at one ounce, per gallon of water. Unless a root rot/slime issue occurs and then it's 60ml per gal.
There are 4 ounces in 1/2 cup, which is 240ml. Now, hopefully you used 3% h2o2 and not hydro store stuff, which is 10 times stronger.

This is the chart he is refering to, I re-posted it from somewhere else.

http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/gardening-with-hydrogen-peroxide.html

http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/hydrogen-peroxide-in-gardening.html

 

[noproblempablo]

let them dry
Repotting in fresh soil may help.

Oops, posted right as you did. Good call, I'll repot them. Thanks for all the help. Next grow will be much improved because of it. What a great resource the icmag community is!

 

[noproblempablo]

Root burn

Root burn

I went to repot and the suckers have a very tiny root ball like not much bigger than when I originally transplanted from the little starter pots and the roots are not pretty either. Spindly short little things that are off white/brown. I assume I am suffering from root burn since I everything I read on root rot talks about the funk that comes with it and I don't have a strong smell. At least I am pretty sure that I figured out the problem now and all the advice given over the last few weeks will make me a better grower. Time to start over! While I'm here... what's the recommended veg time after you transplant into a larger pot before you move to flowering? Recommended wait before feeding? Do I just wait until the plant shows signs of needing feeding then feed right away in normal/half dose. I am guessing that I fried the tiny roots right away and they stopped growing? So much to learn...

 

[tennesseetoker]

I'd hold off on the fert. for now just water for a little bit when the top of the soil gets good and dry. Water's rule of thumb is less is more. Make those roots stretch to get to water.