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Viceland's Weediqutte visits Michigan: Search & Seizure

TheMan13

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johnnyavacado

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I'm watching that episode as I type this and I'm really in awe of the magnitude of the government's efforts to stop something that our state could benefit from enormously.
 
TheMan13

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One does not need to have read much case law here in Michigan over the past eight years to realize how corrupt our "justice system" is and/or how incompetent our MMMA criminal defense has been (or at least what we have been able to afford). This mess of legal bullshit has now become our "law" (aka common law) nullifying any reasonable reading of MMMA. The fact (case law) that a judge not need care or consider if the target of their drug war raid, search and seizure is protected under our law is a travesty of justice. To base this decision (case law) on the precept that a Drug Task Force member providing "probable cause" (funded solely by federal drug war grants and asset forfeiture (robbery)) acts in "good-faith" and need not respect our law is ...

The 4th Amendment case I refer to is People vs Brown: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mi-court-of-appeals/1610632.html
 
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catalyte

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i saw this episode and wondered how common the case they looked at actually is in MI ??
 
TheMan13

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morgandecaptain said:
Michigan politicians and police hate this video and is going after it on youtube with DMCA take downs.
Click to expand...

I assume you are referring to the third party postings on YouTube of entire TV series episodes that have been taken down for obvious copyright/ownership violations. Salty Michigan politicians and lobbyists may have reported the violation, but if Viceland were to post up the entire episode on their YouTube channel it would be untouchable.
 
TheMan13

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Tan_G said:
i saw this episode and wondered how common the case they looked at actually is in MI ??
Click to expand...

Lawyer Michael Komorn wrote about his role in Viceland's filming here and noted how much was left on the cutting room floor given their 30 minute episode restrictions.

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org...y-involved-in-weediquette-season-2-episode-7/

Given my work with StopTheRaids here, I can assure you very few of those assaulted are willing to go public with their humiliation. Although there is no lack of public cases given the breadth of the problem for the past eight years, just a lack of media/public interest/concern.
 
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morgandecaptain

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That's not true,any rights holder can file a DCMA on a YT video.
Pretty sure my original post was from the YT Vice channel. It is a trivial thing to use the DCMA to remove a video from YT,it's a automated process. They would need to sue Vice to have it removed from Vices website.
 
TheMan13

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Neither YT post of the entire episode that we used here were from Vice, only the trailer I used initially. They often post full episodes after some time has elapsed and/or the season has concluded. YT's DCMA is a joke and often gamed by trolls and competitors.
 
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Ready4

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I read your link to that case law re: Brown.
Nowhere did it say that Brown actually had a med MJ card.
Their argument seemed to be that because there was a med MJ law on the books that the mere sight by a roommate of some MJ plants
did not constitute probable cause because they COULD have been legal under the med MJ law.

Brown's problem was not with a few plants, it was a snitching piece of shit roommate that was the issue.

The lesson there is pick better friends and roommates. Ones who are not assholes who will run out and snitch on you if you get in an argument.

A little common sense goes a lonnnggggg way as far as risk reduction.
 
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Ready4

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I think you believe that you are helping or doing well. But you are not. You are fear mongering and passing along false information.
That case was from 5 years ago. The defendant did not possess a med card. His attorney's
argument was that the search warrant was invalid because the police did not check to see if Brown possibly was a med card holder.
If Brown was a patient, he should have had that displayed on door to growroom or next to the plants with multiple copies so it was apparent he was legal under the law.
Since he had no card, he was unable to do that.
You are 100% wrong regarding "every legit card carrying patient and caregiver in this state clearly lost their right to unreasonable search and seizure per that CoA opinion."
Shameful fearmongering.
Yes, if you have "friends" or former roommates going to the police saying you have plants you will be raided. Have clear notices in place.
People who are following the law have not really faced many problems in most communities. Some of the people claiming to be "victims" were growing 12-36 plants under huge amounts of light, with a pound or 2 laying around, selling quantities with shady comings and goings - then they cry they are victims when they get popped.
Use common sense, and have your paperwork in order.
 
TheMan13

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People v Brown opinion:

"to establish probable cause, a search-warrant affidavit need not provide facts from which a magistrate could conclude that a suspect’s marijuana-related activities are specifically not legal under the MMMA.

That means LEO can raid your home based simply on the "smell of fresh marijuana" regardless that no crime need exist per MMMA. That makes the search and seizure of MMMA cardholders homes unreasonable IMHO.

I'm not sure what your point nor intent here is, but I suggest you check your facts and/or have a clue WTF you are talking about/accusing. I have worked with victims of these raids for years now and can ensure you they occur regularly.

FYI: Michigan has seen a 17% increase in marijuana possession arrests since 2008 ...
 
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Ready4

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TheMan13 said:
People v Brown opinion:

I'm not sure what your point nor intent here is, but I suggest you check your facts and/or have a clue WTF you are talking about/accusing. I have worked with victims of these raids for years now and can ensure you they occur regularly.

FYI: Michigan has seen a 17% increase in marijuana possession arrests since 2008 ...
Click to expand...

My point is you are fearmongering and passing along false information. And I do know "WTF I am talking about". You want to live like a coward in fear, that is your business. But quit passing along your paranoid bs to other people. Grow a pair.

Patients and caregivers following the law have experienced very, very few issues with LEO. Your smells should be contained, a small garden does not attract LEO attention unless other factors bring them there. You have been mentally manipulated by LEO, doing exactly what they want you to do = live in fear. Read the book " State of Fear" by Michael Crichton, maybe then you will get it.

Your complete lack of comprehension and analysis is the issue. "17% increase since 2008" = so what ? A 17% increase, drawn out over a 9 year period, is not substantial = a rate increase of less than 2% per year. Much of this is due to stupidity and lack of proper caution - legal MMJ did not mean just let your guard down. Most of these arrests are done during traffic stops. Many people stupidly believe it is a free for all & anything goes.

The COA ruling from 6 years ago just confirmed what was already existing policy. Stay away from criminals, assholes & snitches and do not traffic & you should have zero problems.
 
TheMan13

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You like to conflate a whole lot. I'm not even sure how to respond ...

An elementary/fundamental understanding of the rule of law is critical to understanding MMMA. A criminal trial court finds a defendant guilty of specific charges based on the facts of the matter/evidence beyond a reasonable doubt (99%). Any appeals of that decision/verdict will NOT be based upon any facts of the matter, but rather a question of law. That is a distinct difference between a trial and the appellate court, which issues opinions based on questions of the law. In other words all the facts that you keep stating about Brown's conviction are irrelevant to the People v Brown CoA opinion. It just doesn't make sense to me.

The question of law in People v Brown was essentially; Does PC established under drug war precedents based on broad criminal marijuana prohibition violate the 4th amendment rights of MMMA Patients/Caregivers to be free from unreasonable search and seizure? The answer was No and that's a problem for MMMA Patients/Caregivers IMHO.

Another example of this would be the People v Curruthers CoA opinion. The question: Are marijuhana extracts/medibles legal? The answer: No, or at least it was until HB 4210 overturned this wrongful/conflicted CoA opinion. It didn't have anything to do with the facts of the matter as to Curruthers or his conviction.

Sadly any reasonable reading of MMMA cannot be had without understanding the effects of this vast case law (aka common law).

I hope that helps resolve this conflict and that you have a Merry Christmas,

picture.php
 
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Ready4

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TheMan13 said:
You like to conflate a whole lot. I'm not even sure how to respond ...

An elementary/fundamental understanding of the rule of law is critical to understanding MMMA. ....... It just doesn't make sense to me

I hope that helps resolve this conflict and that you have a Merry Christmas,
Click to expand...

Nothing I stated would qualify under the term "conflate".
I am fully capable of completely understanding the rule of law and fully understand the MMMA law and fully understand that Brown ruling.

Your total lack of comprehension & passing false info out is the only conflict here.

And I am not the first to tell you this, many have already told you similar on another site.

No, people with their MMJ card need not live in fear. There should be zero reason for LEO to ever show up at your door if you are following the law & not drawing attention to yourself from peripheral other criminal etc. activities. Have your paperwork in plain view near plants or on door to room.

Plenty of people I know have never had a card and have never worried about LEO and never had a problem , they are careful to not draw attention to themselves. Loose lips sink ships.

All the Brown ruling said was that the possibility of a possible MMJ card need not be considered when LEO is obtaining a warrant for MJ growing.

But the huge overwhelming % of MMJ patients would & will never come into the radar of LEO. Why would LEO even ever know about your garden if you are not being foolish ?
If you are running 8,000 -12,000 watts of light for your personal MM garden, you may just draw attention. 12 Xmas sized trees under 12 1,000 watt lights can create problems.

You hyped the "17% increase in MJ arrests since 2008" as "proof" but did not respond when I pointed out that was less than a 2% increase per year.

Merry Xmas to you, may Santa bring you some courage.:tiphat:
 
TheMan13

TheMan13

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Holy shit man, you live in your own fucking world/bubble! I don't have a problem with our differing opinions or your right to argue it, but I do have a problem with you repeatedly attacking/libeling my character. You clearly don't know much, but you sure as fuck don't know me ...

As for your character, I'll let that speak for itself ...
 
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Ready4

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Smoke a little and relax. You make all these statements telling others to live in fear - giving the Brown case as an example of why they should live in fear - yet you do not seem to have ever actually read the Brown case or understand it all. Nothing changed at all with that ruling from the status quo.

You hyped up a "17% increase in MJ arrests since 2008" as proof but have done zero analysis of why that might be - and when I point out it is negligible increase of less than 2% increase per year, you have no answers for that.

Nothing wrong with telling people to be cautious but you go far, far beyond that. I have read your similar fear hype for a long time, seen your similar nonsense on MMMA.

I see a complete lack of any statistics to back up what you claim.

What exactly is your agenda, besides fear mongering ?
 
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