Using acetone to winterize BHO and ultrasonic distillation?
- Thread starter Breakover
- Start date
Isn't that a common procedure to prepare a sample for column cromatography?
What's the benefit? higher yeld?
Breakover
Member
Everyday in the lab!
It would likely work quite well for a quick wash tek. You'd have to build/buy a fairly large sonicator to run any sort of volume, but it's definitely possible.
I already know what is possible, and am not thinking of super-destructo ultra-cavitation horns, or even the vertical probe units common in labs, unless you can find a used one cheap. Nothing against DIY, but I'm asking about or suggesting actual use of higher-powered cleaning baths on up, with alkanes or perhaps a very QWISO, on the maryjane - regarding your selecting models. I searched amazon a while back for the best one and was going to buy it but -
Yes indeedy for yield; of what, depends. Extraction will be faster. Sonication is the recommended method for extracting for GC/MS, but most anal completeness of extraction and convenience in the lab doesn't exactly mean it's the best method for what is desired. That's why I'm asking.
Yes indeedy for yield; of what, depends. Extraction will be faster. Sonication is the recommended method for extracting for GC/MS, but most anal completeness of extraction and convenience in the lab doesn't exactly mean it's the best method for what is desired. That's why I'm asking.
gunnaknow
Active member
I decided to bring this thread back because I wasn't around to respond at the time and I'm able to confirm that acetone works for this purpose. I'd like to add what I know about the use of acetone, although I don't want to overload an old thread with too much information.
As we all know, winterization is the general term for the procedure that we're using. If we wanted to be more specific, we're using what's referred to as solvent winterization. Solvent winterization is sometimes favored in oil manufacturing over regular winterization because it decreases the viscosity, which has the advantage of increasing the rate of lipid crystallization, aswel as increasing the amount that can be crystallized while still remaining a workable slurry. Not that the latter particularly matters to us though. Ethanol is one of the solvents that can be used in solvent winterization but acetone and other solvents are also commonly used. If anything, acetone is more commonly used for this purpose than ethanol. Acetone is also regularly used for solvent fractionation, which is a more precisely controlled form of solvent winterization used for separating individual lipid fractions. When it comes to the production of absolutes in particular, ethanol has always been the chosen solvent. However, you can use acetone or other solvents that are commonly used in solvent winterization and still get decent results. This could be useful to those who can't afford undenatured ethanol, or those who don't wish to go to the effort of recovering ethanol. I hope that this made sense. If not, I had fun explaining. lol
gunna
As we all know, winterization is the general term for the procedure that we're using. If we wanted to be more specific, we're using what's referred to as solvent winterization. Solvent winterization is sometimes favored in oil manufacturing over regular winterization because it decreases the viscosity, which has the advantage of increasing the rate of lipid crystallization, aswel as increasing the amount that can be crystallized while still remaining a workable slurry. Not that the latter particularly matters to us though. Ethanol is one of the solvents that can be used in solvent winterization but acetone and other solvents are also commonly used. If anything, acetone is more commonly used for this purpose than ethanol. Acetone is also regularly used for solvent fractionation, which is a more precisely controlled form of solvent winterization used for separating individual lipid fractions. When it comes to the production of absolutes in particular, ethanol has always been the chosen solvent. However, you can use acetone or other solvents that are commonly used in solvent winterization and still get decent results. This could be useful to those who can't afford undenatured ethanol, or those who don't wish to go to the effort of recovering ethanol. I hope that this made sense. If not, I had fun explaining. lol
gunna
W
whiterasta
Should add that ketones form highly explosive peroxides during hot or extended exposure to O2. As far as stripping waxes I have found 95% EtOH superior in every regard, but that last 5% water is very slow to purge out to form a "shatter" consistency.Extended periods in a desiccant chamber in a thin film seems to work best. It absolutely works best when the filtered winterized solution is dried with MgSO4 for 24 hrs prior to distillation. Acetone is just a bit too reactive for my tastes. Keeping atmospheric moisture out of things is very helpful to obtaining a fully dry stable product.
Some top notch things been going on here while I been making absolute by the lb for our little biz. Props to the advanced class for sure!
Some top notch things been going on here while I been making absolute by the lb for our little biz. Props to the advanced class for sure!
W
whiterasta
This is an EtOH absolute extensively dried then formed...
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=17926&pictureid=1028987
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=17926&pictureid=1028988
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=17926&pictureid=1028987
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=17926&pictureid=1028988
This is an EtOH absolute extensively dried then formed...
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=17926&pictureid=1028987
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=17926&pictureid=1028988
Perfect form!
gunnaknow
Active member
Acetone is difficult to oxidize in neutral conditions. You would need to use very high heat or a strong oxidizing agent. I do understand your preference for using EtOH though. I like the look of your chocolate bar molded absolute. Be careful that the kids don't find it! lol
gunnaknow
Active member
JC, the use of dry ice will cause rapid "crash cooling" (yes, it really is a genuine term, believe it or not). When a solution is crash cooled the waxes typically form amorphous clusters. With gradual cooling crystals are able to grow in a more ordered structure. The amorphous structures will tend to act like a sponge and trap more solvent and you'll probably lose a small amount during filtration. You can express much of this out if you're careful not to burst the filter. GW recently mentioned how he sometimes gently squeezes the filter cake between his fingers, which is what I'd also recommend. The main issue that I can potentially see arising with your proposal, is less to do with rapid crash cooling and more to do with not giving the wax crystals time to agglomerate afterwards. If you're using coffee filter paper, it's a good idea to give the wax crystals time to agglomerate, to be sure of good particle retention upon filtration. If you do decide to crash cool without allowing a maturation time, you can perform what's referred to as a cold test after filtration, to see if the solution still clouds. If it doesn't cloud, the filtration was successful. The other thing that you'd want to take into account is that the cannabinoids will be less soluble at such low temperatures and you'd need to increase the ratio of solvent to BHO to account for this. I hope that this answers your question.
gunna
tommy_greens
Member
Hi NL, its been almost 2 years since you originally posted this tech. I'm wondering if this is still a method that you are using, and would you still recommend it now?
Its very interesting to me because I live in an area where it is very difficult to source Etoh.
Also the speed factor is very attractive.
Its very interesting to me because I live in an area where it is very difficult to source Etoh.
Also the speed factor is very attractive.
Breakover
Member
No, we aren't using it any longer. I fully disclose my methods to consumers and acetone wasn't well received. We have since switched to using a variety of 190-192 ethanol from wine chateau, alchemical solutions, etc.
I would think it would be more difficult to source clean (chromatography grade) acetone vs 190 ethanol, tho.
I would think it would be more difficult to source clean (chromatography grade) acetone vs 190 ethanol, tho.
tommy_greens
Member
No, where I live there is scientific supply down the road with any solvent you could want except in my country any alcohol that could potentially be consumed is subject to excise tax of in the range of 40-50% and controlled by the government.
Breakover
Member
Then I would try the acetone or acetone/pentane technique, followed by an EtOH wash. You don't likely need a large amount of EtOH, just enough to thin your extract out and allow any trapped pentane or acetone molecules to escape.
Even still, this isn't professional advice, experiment at your own risk. Good luck!
Acetone/butane/pentane... Man, I'm done putting that stuff in my lungs, despite the kick-ass high. I know we think we're extracting the bad stuff and only leaving the good. But we aren't that skilled. I'd be interested to see legitimate lab results (not your stoner college friends' reports) showing the makeup of smoke coming out of the typical hydrocarbon-based solvent extraction. My head loves the high, but my lungs know what the pure vacuum-extracted fully winterized gold has in it.
Breakover
Member
That's why winterization with ethanol is top choice for most folks.
My point was that I don't believe you get all that shit out, no matter what you do. Maybe a highly-developed lab with some very expensive equipment could, but having sampled a lot of stuff from a lot of "experts" at extraction and winterization, that ain't happening in home labs.
