US Prisons are some of the worst in the world.

[D.S. Toker. MD]

ALL american prison gaurds and correction officials share similar personality and IQ traits. IQ levels for correction officers rate consistently below average and frontal lobe activity, the part of the brain that is involved in decision making,judgement and awareness is noticibley reduced from that of the average person.
84 % of all correction officers are obese.
80% demonstrate relationship and socialization abnormalities

In fact, study after study demonstrates that brain activity in correction workers greatly resembles that which has recently been observed in the brain wave responses of persons that have a conservative ideolgy. The conservative mind has a diminished capacity to comprehend the concept of justice and when shown video of harsh treatment, they repeatedly fail to use words like "unfair" or "wrong" where the typical response is aversion and dislike. Intellect, music, literature, art, and science are the aspects of humanity that truly seperate us from the animal kingdom but activity in these areas of the conservative brain show diminished response when subjected to art or music stimulus when compared to the average brain. That is why in countries such as Afganistan or Saudi, music, dancing, art is suppressed. Be it Bin Laden or Pat Robertson, the conservative mind has no capacity for intellect or the concept of "justice". There is no such thing as a conservative art lover .

Its hard for decent, caring people to work in a prison as they become depressed and feel guilty about the treatment they are witnessing. Only those with a diminished capacity for intellect and awareness remain in the field. It takes a certain psychology to do the work and its a dim witted, dull critter. That is whats wrong with the prison system.

 

[icmag.is.#1]

-Over 2500 youths are serving life without the possibility of parole. We are the only country that sentences youth to life without parole (every other nation recognizes that it's cruel and unusual punishment).
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Those "youths" must of done something pretty god damned bad to get life without parole.... You know stuff like murdering their parents or other people in the 1st and 2nd degree. in this case How is a life sentence cruel and unusual? Just because they might be 16 or so does not mean they didnt know what they were doing...
that being said fuck the life sentence why not send em strait to the "after-birth" abortion chamber

 

[Trillion]

Great thread... You tell 'em organizedcrime!

D.S. Toker In theory I definately agree with your point, do you have any references for thes studies you mentioned?

 

[sparkjumper]

Man I dont believe what some people say or think about the U.S.,but I'm sure the person hasnt done a day in jail.When you go from jail into the dept of corrections system,the first thing they do is classify you.Most states have A B C custody or 1 2 3.C or 3 being violent rapists and killers while 1 or A are considered non-violent offenders.I was B custody which is in the middle but there wasnt anything really bad going on.Do you really think Mexico or Turkey is going to classify you so as to determine who you will be housed with?If you think this you are dreaming and if you think being locked up in the states is the worst you are delusional

 

[KGB47]

Blah, blah, blah....

You're so full of shit you could grow mushrooms. You present facts not supported by evidence, spout liberal nonsense as if it were scripture and basically perpetuate the socialist lie that prisons should be country clubs for the scum that reside there.

 

[alaskan]

Yeah, everybody in prison is scum. Every last one of them.

...And nothing but super ultra harsh conditions can cure that scum...

Am I the only person in this thread that was taught "Reading Comprehension" in gradeschool?

I'm pretty sure this thread is more about the fact that this country has more people in jail than any other, and a legal system set up in a way that makes it basically impossible to do anything about it.

Not about fancy american prison living conditions VS. dilapidated foreign prison living conditions.

One of the things that bothers me the most about the US is the state of our judicial system, especially our correctional system. This post is fairly heavy so if you're really ripped I'd recommend another topic. I think people should be aware of this problem. Our correctional system is terrible, and I don't think we can honestly say that we're a good and moral nation so long as it's the way it is, and getting worse.

Here are a few quick facts that may make your jaw drop.

-There are 8 million people incarcerated in the world. Of which, over 2 million are in US prisons and jails.

-We have more people in prison than any other nation in the world, both in actual numbers, as well as proportionally.

-The only countries which kill more inmates sentenced to death than the US are China, North Korea, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. Not to mention all those who die due to their conditions.

-In Louisiana (the state with the highest rate of incarceration), one in every 26 adults are under correctional control if probation and parole are included. Many are serving time at Angola, which is a modern day prison plantation.

-Blacks and other minorities have it even worse. One in every 3 black men can expect to find themselves jailed at some point.

"African-Americans are arrested, prosecuted, and imprisoned for drug offenses at far higher rates than whites. This racial disparity bears little relationship to racial differences in drug offending. For example, although the proportion of all drug users who are black is generally in the range of 13 to 15 percent, blacks constitute 36 percent of arrests for drug possession. Blacks constitute 63 percent of all drug offenders admitted to state prisons. In at least fifteen states, black men were sent to prison on drug charges at rates ranging from twenty to fifty-seven times those of white men."

-Over 2500 youths are serving life without the possibility of parole. We are the only country that sentences youth to life without parole (every other nation recognizes that it's cruel and unusual punishment).

-In many states, prisoners lose their right to vote, sometimes permanently.

-In some states, if you are imprisoned and later found not guilty, the state owes you absolutely nothing. Louisiana is one of them. There are many cases where someone will be freed due to DNA evidence after 20 years. They are owed nothing for their time.

-In all states, it is much more difficult to file a lawsuit as a prisoner, thanks to the Prisoner Litigation Reform Act. At many prisons, there's basically no way for someone to file a case after being raped, beaten, etc.

So those are the statistics about how it's a problem. But the conditions are great right? Our prisons are some of the roughest in the world, especially relative to the rest of the developed world. People routinely go to jail for a non-violent offense, and end up coming out with hepatitis c and AIDS, after having been raped repeatedly.

Here's a topic on something awful which inspired me to make this topic. You don't have to be a member to read it. It's really depressing stuff but good to know.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3161033&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Personally, I think if we're going to call ourselves a moral nation, we have to treat everyone with some basic level of decency - even prisoners. Treating them like shit doesn't do anything positive - in fact it makes things much worse. There's a fairly good new book out called When Brute Force Fails by Mark Kleiman I've been reading. It's up on Google books for free.


It really disgusts me that there's this huge problem out there that no politician gives a **** about. They usually have competitions to see who can be the most brutal in fact. After looking at our own prisons, it's easy to see how things like Abu Graib happened. They're no different than our own jails. Actually Abu Graib probably isn't as bad, since they didn't have to worry about sexual violence.

Happy trails.

 

[KGB47]

Wow, just wow.

They are our problem because they are part of our society and we hold some collective responsibility for what they are ...

Holy shit, put down the crack pipe, you've had enough.

You're absolutely wrong, when these animals CHOSE to rape, murder, rob and assault people they CHOSE to remove themselves from society at large, we hold no responsibility for THEIR actions, period.

I am, however, sending you a towel for your bleeding heart.

 

[alaskan]

And as we all know, murderers, rapists, and burglars make up 100% of those jailed in the US ...

 

[Charybdis]

Some of the worst facilities are jails, as I said before; the people who are killed or permanently injured there haven't been found guilty.

But it's obvious KGB has no interest in actually understanding the truth here, he just wants to bury his head in the sand. That's the problem. People think they'll never end up in prison because they're 'good people' and the people in jail are 'bad people'. I don't understand how someone can seriously believe that 1 in 3 black males are bad people but there you have it. If we actually put everyone in jail who committed crimes there'd be no one left outside. It doesn't make any sense to send someone to jail for 15 years for stealing $40. Sure, they did something wrong but it's not worth 15 years of being beaten and mistreated (or worse). We have extremely harsh sentences, and sparse enforcement.

 

[Amstel Light]

And as we all know, murderers, rapists, and burglars make up 100% of those jailed in the US ...

yea even all the ones being set free right now through dna testing are still scum! it was theyre choice to be wrongfully imprisoned!

 

[Marywanna]

I don't care what you guys think.For each criminal there are victims,left behind to deal with what happened to them. Who helps them? Do they get to go to school free,and get free medical care,job training,dental care? No. The victims are left to deal with life alone, and try to pick up their lives again.Go ahead and tear me up,someday you or one you love may have their life destroyed. Then tell me you feel the same way. You guys do know that I am talking about violent crimes,right? Not some guy with 2 joints in his pocket. And I have been arrested and treated like dirt,so shut up.

 

[Charybdis]

I agree with you that we should provide more services for victims of violent crime. That's a good point and another subject.

There are a number of problems with some of your views Marywanna. The first is that we're better off being brutal towards prisoners. It's easy to show that if they're treated well (or at least, not tortured), they're much more likely to go on to be productive members of society and not re-offend. Norway treats prisoners well, and they don't have repeat offenders.

The other problem is that you're assuming that all of the people who are in prison are guilty. Suppose a white woman is raped in the ghetto. She gives a description of a generic black man. A black kid is in the area, and meets the description (he's black after all). He's poor so he can't afford a lawyer. He's not guilty, but they're threatening him with 20 years unless he takes a plea. He takes it rather than risk a trial. After 10 years of prison, he's let go after dna proves he didn't do it. This happens every.day. in America.

Also your idea about it being brutal only for the violent offenders - unfortunately, it can be just as bad for the guy who raped someone as it is for the person who was making illegal copies of a video, or growing a couple of plants, or smoking a joint. The punishment doesn't fit the crime, and the people jailed (especially if they're poor minorities) aren't even necessarily guilty.

 

[MarquisBlack]

The biggest fraud is the fact that the cost per day of keeping a prisoner is over-calculated, to take money from the tax payers. Fucked up business, man. I thought the shit we do for a living is shady....

 

[Marywanna]

Okay I over reacted and apologise.We have a friend right now incarcerated in a shady way.....he was framed and made a scapegoat for the County so that they could say they busted a "real drug dealer". And it was marijuana. So I do know and understand your points. I also realize that in county jails there is no real rehabilitaion chances,our oldest son had that experience. And when I was arrested,the cops treated me like a piece of shit.They push you around even more if you are a woman,they like that kind of stuff. I paid for 2 years of probation. I am not entirely heartless. I just think prison is just that,PRISON. You are there to be punished for your crimes. Of course I feel possession of MJ should not be a crime. I voted,as did 63% of my state did ,to legalize medical MJ and am a pt myself. I am not naive,and do not assume each individual in prison is guilty.BTW,our out-going Governor just commuted sentences for 346 violent criminals. Maybe they will move into your area.

 

[ZoeFresssh666]

i agree that US prisons are bad. however, i would not call them the worst in the world. i'm from the middle east and the conditions in those prisons are pretty tragic. and i definitely don't think that more money should be spent on making the conditions in US prisons better. There is already millions more being spent on maintaining prisons in this country than the education system. Now that's a sad revelation.

 

[SpasticGramps]

really fucked up and killing / raping / robbing / molesting is all wrong but i think putting someone in a cell is also wrong. somewhere along the line we fucked up

So what do you supposed we do with all the child molesters, serial killers, serial rapists, and repeat violent offenders.

Talk to them. Oh wait, I know reason with them lol. LMAO. They can all move up to where you are so you can teach them how to live right.

How to incarnate society's criminals has always been a problem. The system swings back and forth between rehabilitation or long term incarceration.

Neither has proved very effective. The drug war has turned prisons into a private enterprise in the US. It's all f'ed up now. They've done criminalized the population.

As far as taking my part of responsibility for crimes committed by someone else. Pffft... not a chance in hell buddy and yes I already understand your argument. I'm agreeing to disagree. That collective guilt trip violin falls on my deaf ears.

Yes, I'm an asshole. It takes a lot to get sympathy from me. School of hard knocks bro.

 

[whiterabbit9]

im okay with the death penalty

prison breeds criminals/evil/crazies

 

[SpasticGramps]

im okay with the death penalty

prison breeds criminals/evil/crazies

I use to be OK with the death penalty, but I've had to reconcile that view with my overall philosophical thought as of recent.

As much as I would like to see all the child molesters killed, I don't think I, nor jury, nor judge has the right to choose to kill someone.

 

[Moldy Dreads]

Although the prison system sucks, and it is a money making industry, this comparison of the USA to the rest of the world really is not a good comparison IMO.

The prison system can be made better in may ways, but have you guys been to some of the countries listed and seen the way they do justice? Their jail cells that are built for 2 prisoners with 32 prisoners in them? That is a lack of jails, not a better system...

I agree there are lobbies and private businesses involved, but I think the OP should focus on changing lobbying rights and rules, and not the jail system. I agree with some of the statistics, but you can't try to compare with the rest of the world and argue what you are arguing. In Cuba, Brazil, and other countries listed there, justice is made in the streets wiuth an AK 47 or a Glock. People have electric fences and bulletfproof cars if they have any money. A driver runs over your son while drunk, and nothing happens to him... WHo cares if there are less criminals if the guy isn't going to jail for killing your kid.
]Do you see where I'm going.

Of course Drug addicts and other soft "crimes" need to dealt with by treatment and other ways other than jail, but you guys are a bit confused using these comparisons to other countries and what not.

In latin Amercan countries serial killers sometimes don't do 10 years in jail and come out and kill the people they threatened from jail. It's a mess. 7 to 17 year old kids run around with AKs and Uzis killing people for drug lords because they don't encarcerate youths...

I agree with what you say about privatizing jails and the archaic way we treat low-danger inmates and "criminals", but I have to disagree that our jails are all a nightmare.
It's the laws that suck, the sentences (for example Cannabis laws)....not the jails so much..

 

[whiterabbit9]

yeah well

we have a problem

we have to adress it