US Prisons are some of the worst in the world.

[kaze420]

we are the best right..USA the standard for freedom.. the vision of hope, may it be corrupt, its there, being good energy(freedom) it take more energy to not slip
, it requires constant attention, you cant drop the ball!

look at that guy, aim so nicely, the bullet need to travel 1 foot for .00001 second learn about this.. shooting from the hip... 1 bullet per brain is efficient right? that energy to kill, those people could they not work? provide something to some1

 

[Charybdis]

There are other countries which have worse prison conditions. Some other countries have worse human rights abuses. But no other countries jail such a large proportion of their population. The fact that an average black male stands a 1 in 3 chance of ending up imprisoned at some point is chilling.

Now, here's just a short list of human rights abuses from another topic:

"Black guys picking cotton at gunpoint in LA. Swarms of rats chewing off fingers & eyes in IL. Indefinite sensory deprivation. Bags of feces thrown on people in VA. Arms held out of feeding-slots to shatter elbows in VA. Pregnant women beaten so hard the braces get knocked off their teeth in TX. Men forced to fight to the death in gladiator matches in CA. Men shot for sport in CA. Men overcrowded at 300% capacity nationwide. Children given life sentences without the possibility of parole- nationwide. HIV+ inmates beaten and sent to sensory-deprivation isolation with biohazard stencils and no medical treatment. Men put in sensory-deprivation isolation for up to 36 years with no contact with the outside world (including lawyers). Secret medical experiments performed on thousands of inmates in PA. Cops running brutal abuse schemes and creating their own gangs in NY. Penises amputated in WA. Feces mixed into food in CO."

To look at abuses like that and say that I'm taking what I have for granted - I take exception to that. I know what I have, I'm not naïve. I know there are prisoners in other countries who have it worse. I never said we were the absolute worst, just one of the. But at the same time, we do have the worst police state in ways. We jail more of our citizens than anywhere else in the world. I'd rather be in a Mexican prison than most of ours. To look at the routine abuses at places like Pelican Bay, Angola, Red Onion and say we don't know how good we have it is a slap in the face to all of the people being abused. The hundred thousand a year who are raped. The people being held indefinitely in a SHU. The countless other human rights violations. We're not as bad as the worst. But we do have about half of the worst prisons.

Besides which, we're an ostensibly democratic nation. We shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back because we're not quite dead-last out of 192 nations. We should work towards becoming one of the least abusive nations, the one that the rest of the world looks to for guidance. That's what America is supposed to be, right? The Greatest Nation on Earth?

 

[Moldy Dreads]

I keep trying to tell them that SpasticGramps, these kids have no clue about shitty jail systems.

 

[steppinRazor]

 

[SpasticGramps]

A couple more for effect.

Nigeria

Malaysia

Cuba

 

[SpasticGramps]

That's what America is supposed to be, right? The Greatest Nation on Earth?

That's a more reasonable outlook IMO.

You are absolutely right. It's totally fucked up over here right now and when the War on Drugs ends, I believe it will correct itself. End the terminal policies and you end this crazy criminalization of American society.

But there are soooooooo many other countries where it is sooooooo much worse.

 

[Charybdis]

Ok, here are some compelling pictures and stories about our wonderful prisons, shamelessly lifted from SA.

Angola is a former slave plantation which still maintains a massive (18,000 acres) farming operation run wholly without machinery. Inmates- overwhelmingly black- still pick cotton by hand there, along with soybeans. They work the fields with hand tools just like in the "good old days." Some of the guards there are directly descended from the slave-drivers who worked there when it was a slave plantation. Inmates also maintain a large golf course for use by the staff.

The "Angola 3" are three Black Panthers who were kept in solitary for 36 years. This is the longest time anyone has been in solitary US history as far as any surviving records indicate. This is also in violation of international treaties the US has ratified. They got let out after John Conyers visited the prison and was stunned by that fact. One of them, Robert King Wilkerson, got released from Angola after 29 years in solitary. He is now a nationally-recognized prison activist and his motto is "I'm free of Angola, but Angola will never be free of me."

The Harris County Jail in Houston, TX is the third largest joint in the country and one of the largest in the world. Only the Rikers Island (which is actually a complex of 10 different jails) and the LA County Jail (largest on the planet) are larger. 25% of the $1.5 billion Harris County budget is law enforcement, with more than $750,000 a day spent on detainees. A shortage of guards means the jail shells out $35 million a year on overtime; some guards are topping out at $100,000 a year in total pay.

An average of 10,000 people are held there per day, not counting another 1,100 bused 6 hours to and from Northern Louisiana each day. Some of them- up to 1,700 at some points- have to sleep on the floor because parts of it are unused due to severe staff shortages. When state inspectors come, the floor-sleepers are hidden in underground tunnels until the inspectors leave. It has operated without Texas Jail Standard Commission certification since 2004, in violation of state law.

My granson is in Harris County Jail. His cell has 48 beds but has 60 inmates. During the state inspections inmates sleeping on the floor are moved to the the jail tunnel system which temporarily "solves" the overcrowding situation. After the inspectors leave, the inmates in the tunnel system are returned to the floors. The county currently decides when the inspection takes place. The state should make this decision and should be able to access any facility at anytime.

The jail also operates in violation of federal law- the Department of Justice ruled that the poor access to health care in life-threatening situations, unnecessary use of physical force, denial of mental health care, and inattention to suicide prevention violates the U.S. Constitution.

The [DOJ] found that the jail fails to provide detainees with adequate: (1) medical care; (2) mental health care; (3) protection from serious physical harm; and (4) protection from life-safety hazards

In Harris County there is an "assembly line" set up to more quickly and efficiently certify children as adults so that they can go to adult jails & prisons. With its 162 juvenile-to-adult certifications in 2007-08, Harris County alone certified 19 more juveniles as adults than in the state’s nine other leading counties which altogether certified just 143 juveniles as adults. In Texas the juvenile system is known as the "School-to-Prison Pipeline."

Houston attorney Christene Wood represents one teenager who has mounted a legal challenge, along with Texas Appleseed, of the county’s certification process. She told the Chronicle that the judge who sent her client into the adult system laughed, surfed the Internet, and never once made eye contact with the boy before certifying him as an adult. “The certification process [in Harris County] is an absolute joke,” the attorney told the newspaper.

In its "medical tank," inmates have been left in their own blood and feces for days on end (inculding pregnant women), and the tank has a tendency to flood.

Sarah and other women in the room kept telling the guards to take this pregnant woman first. The guards only replied with things along the lines of “Shut the fuck up, the bitch shouldn’t have gotten herself in here to begin with. This is jail, not a country club.”

“Well, I guess my travel agent sure messed up, didn’t she?” Sarah laughed, trying for some dark humor. After spending more time in Big Baker and learning the ropes, Sarah saw that inmates tried to avoid going to Medical and she herself vowed to never report injuries or sicknesses again.

Sarah saw Officer Otto grab the woman by the back of her neck again and slam her face into the floor. By this point, Sarah had ducked into a utility closet because “You don’t really want an officer to know you’ve seen them do something like this.” Sarah heard the woman scream at him, “You fucker, I’m pregnant.” When the woman stood up, Sarah saw that her face was all bloody and busted and her braces were hanging out of her mouth. Sarah also saw that the woman was pregnant and showing.

Sarah said the guards’ nickname for her was “the Yuppie,” and they thought it was funny to send her into J-POD where the most violent offenders were housed.

Here are some pictures from Holmesburg:

The Holmesburg Prison Experiments
August 24th, 2008

From 1951 until 1974, inmates of Philadelphia’s Holmesburg Prison were used as experimental guinea pigs for secret medical experiments. The experiments were overseen and sponsored by the U.S. Army, the CIA, The University of Pennsylvania, and at least two private corporations: Dow Chemical Co. and Johnson & Johnson.

The Holmesburg Prison experiments are in blatant violation of the Nuremberg Code of 1947 as well as the Oath of Hippocrates yet they were carried out and financed in secret for decades. By 1963, there were 50 human experiments involving nearly 1,000 Holmesburg inmates involving anything from poisonous vapors, radioactive isotopes, mind controlling drugs, and triggers for psychological disturbance and violence. Experimenters also used inmates to study various skin diseases encountered during World War II. Dr. Albert Kligman, the director of the blatant abuses carried out at Holmesburg for decades, saw Holmesburg Prison as “acres of skin” and himself as “a farmer seeing a fertile field for the first time.”

Attention has been drawn slowly but steadily to one of the darkest moments in American medical and research history through efforts of former research subjects as Allen M. Hornblum’s “Acres of Skin: Human Experiments at Holmesburg Prison, A True Story of Abuse and Exploitation in the Name of Medical Science.”

You're right, clearly we have things too good.

 

[Charybdis]

My point is basically this. If you want to claim that there are despotic regimes where conditions are worse - I'm not going to disagree with you. There are, and that was never my position. I don't have any vested interest in arguing with people who don't believe that conditions are extremely bad here in face of all of the evidence. My main goal with this topic is to make people aware that conditions are extremely bad, the fact that we jail such a large proportion of our population is worse, and things are headed in the wrong direction.

Our society is about two steps away from becoming just as bad if not worse than the worst regimes in history. I could really see someone coming into power and making the changes needed to turn this into a full-fledged dictatorship.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

I dont think things are going to get better until we have a massive revolution. I would like for it to be a peaceful movement but I dont think the government is going to listen at a federal level ever, until crazy people start shooting at them. I do not support violence, but this is my prediction based on what humans have done in the past. The non-violent civil liberties revolution of the 60's was good, but only about 25 percent complete. there needs to be a massive spring cleaning in our system. Until then dont excpect anything to get better on a federal level. I voted for Obama, but he is proving to be all talk, and no go. He maybe trying, but people are hlding him back, thus holding us back. I am sure that any black man in the usa would love to fix the judicial system, so that is why I dont come down on him to hard. He does have the hardest job in the world.

 

[Charybdis]

I know politics is a verboten subject here, and I don't want to derail this into a political debate. I'd just say that whether you support the democrats or republicans, you're really supporting the business party. Neither party has your best interests in mind; you're just choosing which elites you'll be ruled by. I'd recommend Chomsky as a good man to read / listen to though. A major part of why you're seeing so little getting done in Washington is systemic.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I could really see someone coming into power and making the changes needed to turn this into a full-fledged dictatorship.

Me too. Separation of powers is just about laughable these days.

From what I know about history, countries hit the reset button when they get to the point we are approaching upon.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I hear you on the race part Charybdis.

The War on Drugs has always been about race.

Pot and the Mexicans during the Depression, Crack and the Blacks.

When federal governments pick winners and losers it usually develops, over time, into some sort of class warfare.

 

[Trillion]

Is anyone familiar with the work of Zimbardo?

Prisons are institutionally flawed and are perfect environments to nurture violence and oppression and the prevention of reform.

 

[pugnacious]

The U.S prison system is very corrupted, exploitative and in some cases violate human rights. I don't take in consideration the acts of violence and cruelty the actual prisoners do to themselves. That shouldnt represent the prison system. The agency and government in charge is accountable if a prison is inhumane or not.

But it is the Ritz Carlton of prisons compared to 3rd world and developing countries. You guys ever watch that show locked up abroad?

 

[Trillion]

Oh and Charybdis I just wanted to say I find your posts on this subject to be invaluable, thanks for your contributions

 

[BlissDesu]

A global Superpower having nicer prison facilities than many 3rd world nations - score one for Mr. Obvious! Prisons have been the only source of infrastructure spending that most any politician will heartily agree on.

While we're comparing America with 3rd world nations, perhaps we can talk education - here in Hawaii the kids get every Friday off - a savings measure to ensure we have enough money to spend on the police and the prisoners.

We've got our priorities in a wad alright.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Don't even get me started on the American education system lmao.

Going from a terrible southern catholic school to an International Baccalaureate Program school, they put me in the slow learners class.

They really thought something was wrong with me lol. Oh, man. It's the shits.

#1 long term problem with our country IMO. That's why parent's left when I was in middle school.

We've got our priorities in a wad alright.

A mess indeed bro.

 

[alaskan]

Sorry if I'm cluttering your thread charybdis, this'll be my last one...

I lied...

http://www.ktvu.com/news/22505136/detail.html

Court Rules Bike Pegs Don't Count As Brass Knuckles

SAN FRANCISCO -- The California Supreme Court ruled Monday that a bicycle footrest doesn't qualify as illegal metal knuckles under state law. The court's seven justices issued a unanimous ruling in San Francisco in the case of a Los Angeles County teenager who was found to be carrying a metallic bicycle footrest in his pocket in 2007. The youth, identified as David V., was 14 and was riding his bicycle on the afternoon of Aug. 21, 2007, when he was stopped by an officer for failing to wear a helmet. After the teenager agreed to a search, the officer found a hollow metal footrest that was 4.5 inches long and 1.5 inches in diameter in his pocket. The devices are intended to be installed on bicycle wheel hubs, but the officer later testified that he couldn't find a place where the item would attach to David V.'s bicycle. The officer also testified that gang members sometimes hold footrests in their fists to increase the impact of punching. David V. was judged in juvenile court to have violated a state law that forbids the wearing of metal knuckles, also known as brass knuckles, "in or on the hand" for purposes of offense or defense. He was declared a ward of the court and placed in a community camp for six months. In his appeal, the youth argued that he wasn't wearing the device and that the law applies only to objects that can be affixed to the hand. The high court agreed, in a ruling written by Justice Carol Corrigan. Corrigan wrote, "We conclude that a cylindrical object that cannot be worn in or on the hand does not qualify as 'metal knuckles'" under the law." But Corrigan added that the law could encompass a variety of devices in addition to traditional brass knuckles. "The statute is flexible, and implements that are fitted to the hand, or wrapped around it, may qualify as metal knuckles," the court said.

If a cop tried to say my pegs were weapons... I probably would use them as such...

 

[Chimney]

Nice thread. Wish I could press the reset button on the world.

 

[pthway4]

US prisons are comfortable and warm, climate controlled vacation considering some third world prisons..not as sweet as Canadian prisons ...Ay... Seriously non violent crime and punishment reform is what is needed. Even states without MMJ legislation, mandatory minimums and incarceration is not the answer...ARD, Drug Court and other first timer rograms need to be expanded by way allowing even repeat non vionet offenders some type of medium range punishment. No matter how long a time period any moment inside a Pennatentary in the United States will change your entire psychi.....and is so traumatic to the self it is never forgotten...as it was purposed. And as far as juvenile corrections!!!! Hah...I will sheild my children from the system to my last breath...CYS, DPW, CPW, CPS ror whatever they are called in your area are the most dangerous people on earth...These are beaucratic idiots whom own life is usaully in shambles who are given the power to remove your own child if given a chance to ... I am in agreement we need reformation and a change in Legislatures....anyway..thanks for openning the thread and topic...