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Unsure what this deficiency (?) is? Happened very fast...

Holdin'

Holdin'

Moon-grass farmer
Veteran
Jesus fucking christ man really? Excuse my language but what the fuck? I was in denial, then over the day today from doing research and coming home and checking again I finally accepted the fact.

Everything was adding up... phantom, unexplained problems throughout this garden while using same medium, nutes, etc....

I need some solid answers. But thank you for your input. I hope YOU are right. I think I am going to upload this video of one crawling around for better comparison. And like I just edited into my last post, I compared mine to the micro shots of the "white speck" RAs that "UrbanGrower" had on YouTube, and I don't see a similarity on a micro level...
 
P

PuReKnOwLeDgE

Licensed Grower
ICMag Donor
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Looks like over fert to me but always check root balls for aphids.




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Holdin'

Holdin'

Moon-grass farmer
Veteran
PuReKnOwLeDgE said:
Looks like over fert to me but always check root balls for aphids.




View Image

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I just don't see how I could've possibly overferted.... same medium same nutes, but even lighter doses because of strange reactions. I know my posts are long but there is definitely something strange going on.

There's two pics of the two critters I've found. The orange one is obviously some type of mite. The white one is what everybody is convincing me is a type of RA. I've seen no pests resembling the traditional "aphid" but these little white specks are what is confusing me.
 
M

medicalmj

Active member
Veteran
Holdin' said:
I just don't see how I could've possibly overferted.... same medium same nutes, but even lighter doses because of strange reactions. I know my posts are long but there is definitely something strange going on.

There's two pics of the two critters I've found. The orange one is obviously some type of mite. The white one is what everybody is convincing me is a type of RA. I've seen no pests resembling the traditional "aphid" but these little white specks are what is confusing me.
Click to expand...

RAs cause chlorosis, which your pics don't show. And I've spent over a hundred hours watching these guys under a scope along w a bit of research. If you didn't steam or solarize to sterilize your soil you have mites. And even if you do they'll most likely show up anyway. Soil mites are phoretic. That is they hitch rides on any and everything.

Aphids are quite large in comparison to soil mites. And the dual "tubes" on their rear are distinct. Also, I guarantee you will kill your plants before you kill the soil mites.

One last thing that really confuses things is that they are attracted to fungus and bacteria which they eat. So if you have bad bacteria or fungus that is what can be causing issues not the mites. Usually if they are in really high numbers its more of a concern. Otherwise just normal.
 
Holdin'

Holdin'

Moon-grass farmer
Veteran
medicalmj said:
Aphids are quite large in comparison to soil mites. And the dual "tubes" on their rear are distinct. Also, I guarantee you will kill your plants before you kill the soil mites.
Click to expand...

Except the small white speck version of RAs, correct? The different forms of RAs seem to be very misleading. And these little fuckers have what looks like a couple little hairs coming out their ass but doesn't exactly look to be like the "dual pipes" I see in pics of aphids.

Everything I have seen now being described as RA, even the micro ones, really doesn't resemble the small, clear semi-transparent critter. And after closer inspection, I am back to thinking that this thing is indeed a mite. The other, larger, sort of orangeish mite I've had lingering around for a while. One interesting thing I did observe with these soil mites (the larger orangeish ones, not the small white speck), was a while back I culled a fairly young healthy male, chopped it off at the base of the stem, and left the container alone for a little while to see if these mites would die off quickly - or still hang around in the container. Sure enough, within about a week to ten days, they'd RAPIDLY multiplied. The highest numbers I've ever seen them. So it would be easy to assume that they are interested in decaying matter. And, I also found them hanging out in a tub of soil (unused) that I'd had laying around for a while.

Now, these white/translucent critters are very, very small. The larger orangeish mite is roughly 1mm-1.5mm, the tiny ones' bodies are roughly .25mm, and their long front legs (or antannae......) make them in total about .35 to .4mm at the very most. From what I can see, their mouthparts are similiar to a mite, but as you can see in the pic it is hard to make out. The orange mite seems hardy, the tiny "mite" on the other hand seems to die very quickly upon being in dry conditions. Like I've said in previous posts, I've found then bunched together on the floor on moist areas that have happend from spilling bits of water around the saucer.

These critters seem to be more common in the plants that seem to be not absorbing as much water as the rest. Due to my strange problems that have came and went during this garden, I've had the thought in the back of my mind that these mites are attracted to something that is causing some phantom issue of some sort. Although, the tiny white critter has only recently been spotted, within the last few weeks - but they could've been lingering far prior and I just hadn't detected them.

Hmm... I'm quite unsure what my plan of action may be here. So far quality seems like it's there, production has been good on most strains... I just hope I can make it through harvest in a little over 3 weeks without yield being affected.

I'll take any input/advice you, or anyone else has to offer.
 
RockyMountainHi

RockyMountainHi

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with th
Veteran
Holdin' said:
Doesn't seem too extreme, and is only isolated to one strain and a handful of plants,!
Click to expand...

Those were the good old days.

Wish I could tell ya it will all be good.

Taint happenin.

Botaniguard can be applied up to day of harvest and should just abour start working well,, about harvest time.

Met-52 has a liquid version, it's gawd awful expensive and a bitch to get to mix with water, but it helped my rockwool. It helps to get a organic silacone surficant -- there's a list of them on the Novazyme web site.





Holdin' said:
Hmm... I'm quite unsure what my plan of action may be here. So far quality seems like it's there, production has been good on most strains... I just hope I can make it through harvest in a little over 3 weeks without yield being affected.

I'll take any input/advice you, or anyone else has to offer.
Click to expand...

You can hope, you can pray. Them bugs just keep eattin and breeding. till that gets interupted,, your the one getting boned.


Got a gun?

get a bullet.
ya only need one.

I've done a 125 deg F hot water root flush - that knocks the shyt out of all bugs. I had a bad Ph tester which didn't help the plants.
 
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Holdin'

Holdin'

Moon-grass farmer
Veteran
RockyMountainHi said:
Those were the good old days.

Wish I could tell ya it will all be good.

Taint happenin.

Botaniguard can be applied up to day of harvest and should just abour start working well,, about harvest time.

Met-52 has a liquid version, it's gawd awful expensive and a bitch to get to mix with water, but it helped my rockwool. It helps to get a organic silacone surficant -- there's a list of them on the Novazyme web site.







You can hope, you can pray. Them bugs just keep eattin and breeding. till that gets interupted,, your the one getting boned.


Got a gun?

get a bullet.
ya only need one.

I've done a 125 deg F hot water root flush - that knocks the shyt out of all bugs. I had a bad Ph tester which didn't help the plants.
Click to expand...

So you still believe that the tiny white fucker is RAs after my posts possibly ruling out RA and that pic I posted?


I've got one guy sure that I'm fucked and should just put a bullet in my head. Meanwhile another guy convinced I don't have RAs and the white critter is a mite. Which was my original assumption.

The paranoid, expect the worst, part of me thinks it could be RA due to all the weirdness.... the other part really wants to believe medicalmj.

Damn.
 
Biosynthesis

Biosynthesis

Member
Veteran
I'm with lambs bread, Looks like they are on the very early stages of burn from a hot soil to me. Are the tips burning more since you started this thread?
 
Biosynthesis

Biosynthesis

Member
Veteran
Rocky-
do you have pictures of the symptoms the plants exhibit? all I can find are pics of bugs. This would be helpful.
 
ozzieAI

ozzieAI

Well-known member
Veteran
if it is RA then then i have had success with a high dose of neem oil that will stop them feeding quickly and allow your plants to recoup...

12ml/litre worked well for me...just ensure you have neem with some emulsifier in it so it with mix with the water.

good luck...
 
Holdin'

Holdin'

Moon-grass farmer
Veteran
Biosynthesis said:
I'm with lambs bread, Looks like they are on the very early stages of burn from a hot soil to me. Are the tips burning more since you started this thread?
Click to expand...




Whats really fucking me up here is the fact this took place the day after a fresh watering (well, light solution of sweet raw). Unless I was just over looking it but I'm pretty good about keeping an eye on my girls. The last feeding was 4 days prior.... I think.... I dont know if this could be merely coincidental, or it just took a few days.

And yeah at first it looked like I was getting some more foliage starting to get this same symptom but its now slowed I believe. And its not exactly concentrated at the leaf tips, and most leaf tips are fine. Truly confusing though, the way its progressed on the leaf seemed more of a deficiency, but I obviously am not confident in that theory. Today or tomorrow when I water in am going to achieve a fair amount of runoff on a couple plants and check pH and ppms/ec of the runoff and see if that tells me anything.


RockyMountainHi said:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=35722&pictureid=878787&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=35722&pictureid=845270&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

thought I had mo pix somewhere
Click to expand...

The outline of the RA that fuzzy pic is definitely not similar to my bug. And I still haven't seen a flier, sticky traps are up.


But, does the micro white speck version morph into the same/similar sized fliers as the larger versions? I couldn't see insects THAT small morphing into a flyer more massive than a FG. Then again, I am no bug expert.

This community needs an accredited bug expert. I say we find a canna friendly mite/insect expert and we all donate to pay him/her well. I know for damn sure I and many others would contribute!
 
Holdin'

Holdin'

Moon-grass farmer
Veteran
Plant n Prosper said:
So im not the lucky one, youre a dick to EVERYONE! Phew, i almost took it personally for a sec there...

You my friend must lead a bitter and lonely life. What happened?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say he was being a dick here... I just wish he would've elaborated on the fact I see no resemblance of my tiny white critter to the pics I have found of the RA bastard. A bit close minded perhaps.... I think I was bothering him when he's thinking I'm just in denial, yet I've got folks telling me that in don't have RA and that the critter I posted a pic of is a mite, which was my original theory. Maybe soil mites due to a fungus or bacteria? I wouldn't doubt it. But I just don't think I have RA.

Either way I appreciate anybody's input, whether I agree with it or not. I just like elaboration and support of ones' theory.
 
M

medicalmj

Active member
Veteran
RockyMountainHi said:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=35722&pictureid=878787&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=35722&pictureid=845270&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

thought I had mo pix somewhere
Click to expand...

As fuzzy as the pic is, it appears you have a common soil mite and the pic on the right is a fungus gnat. Soil mites are phoretic and hitch rides on fungus gnats. Its a symbiotic relationship.Often you get the FGs spreading pathogens and the mites hitch a ride on the legs of the FGs in a suspended state of animation, and then they eat the bacteria, fungus and decayed matter caused by the FG.

Did I mention that there are over 1200 species of Oribatid mites n NA alone, which is the most common type of soil mite. But there are others which I've ID in a hydro system called Astigmatid (sp. histiostomatidae) which are semi aquatic.
 
Minister

Minister

Member
Look at the roots, ivory white, abundant and fuzzy is what you want.
If the roots are being munched, it does not matter what we call it.
 
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