Unsure what this deficiency (?) is? Happened very fast...

[Holdin']

Doesn't seem too extreme, and is only isolated to one strain and a handful of plants, but I want to catch it early and I'm not quite sure what this is.

Had a somewhat problematic veg cycle in my current garden, which was corrected a couple of weeks before I flipped. Now, 31 days into flower, I go into my garden today, and when I put on my "correcting" sunglasses, right away I noticed a problem on a small amount of the foliage, seemingly only on one strain, on a handful of plants. Maybe 3 or 4 plants out of 14 Qrazy Train plants. Brownish coloring/blotches seeming to begin at the edge of the foliage, working but staying between the veins at first, and hasn't overtaken all the way through the main middle vein of the leaf. The most affected leaves curl because of it in the spots where the edges of the leaf has "died off". Doesn't seem to overtake all the way to

Due to seemingly "hot" soil throughout veg, I didn't start feeding until I believe 16 days into flower. I've been feeding fairly lightly, no more than 1/2 strength.

I've been alternating water/feed, and yesterday was only going to be fresh pH'd water but I gave them 6ml/gal of Sweet Raw. Basically the only thing I've done different, as I haven't included Sweet Raw up until now. The previous feeding/watering was 5ml/gal PBP Bloom, 2ml/gal Hydroplex, 3ml/gal ProTekt, 3ml/gal CalMag+ I believe.

So, my theory is that they've depleted a lot of the nutrients remaining in the soilless medium (Sunshine Advanced #4 amended with organic dry nutes), and since I've been feeding light, they are just hungry. Being 31 days into flower, every strain in the garden has been looking great thus far - really starting to swell now and packing on the resin.

Anyways, on to the pics. In the HPS glare with correcting sunglasses on, this looked VERY prominent, dark brown almost black. In natural light it isn't nearly as prominent, roughly the same color just more faded. The pics are under the HPS glare with white balance set, which gives the deficiency a lighter color. Also took a couple pics of a couple leaves I snipped under natural light.

The problem seems to be only isolated to the "bud" leaves, near the upper parts of the colas. All of the older, larger foliage is unaffected.

Natural light

Very hard to see in this pic starting at the edges of the leaves... thought this pic came out better...

Cupping/curl, sort of

Hard to see the actual spots/coloring on the foliage in these pics, but it is what is causing the cupping/curl.

This plant seems to be the most affected

So if you can help me beat this little problem that popped out of nowhere quickly, I thank you very much in advance. Did lots of comparing in the diagnosis guide threads but I don't think I found a good match, or maybe I'm just stoned.

Either way wanted to see what you guys think!

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

IMO they don't look hungry but more like over fert. The leaves have burned tip, and they curl like if the soil was too hot.

 

[Holdin']

Could this have taken 4-5 days to occur since the last feeding? The fact that it took place the day after basically a plain watering and seemed vigorous after the last feeding has me confused. Not to mention the fact I didn't feed anything for probably 30 days due to the issues I had in veg which were not even comparable to this, that was much different. And all feedings since then may be counted on one hand, and were very light.

This is why I thought they were hungry.... but I will admit I've never overferted to the point of a burn. The problem I had before seemed like a salt lockout/imbalance.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Check your roots for bugs.

Get a BIG ASSED mangnfiing glass

Root Aphids and or Fungus Gnats

Dollars to doughnuts,, you have visiters.

Make that squaters.

 

[Holdin']

Check your roots for bugs.

Get a BIG ASSED mangnfiing glass

Root Aphids and or Fungus Gnats

Dollars to doughnuts,, you have visiters.

Make that squaters.

Ohh man don't fuck around like that.

I haven't seen a flyer of any sort... so that's a good thing. Although I know RA won't morph until a very high population. I am indeed aware of soil mites scurrying around in my medium, but I've deemed them to not be an issue. I checked for aphids during veg when I was having an issue before... checked very closely, multiple plants with a 100x scope.

This problem is only showing on one strain. How sure are you this is a sign of squatters? Fuck me, good way to stress a dude out right there. Thanks for your input either way.

 

[Granger2]

Could be critters, but doesn't look like Root Aphids at this point. The feeding you're talking about was light. I don't know what's in the soil other than you said it was hot. Depends on your amendments. It's hard to know what's being released, and when. Good luck. -granger

 

[Holdin']

Could be critters, but doesn't look like Root Aphids at this point. The feeding you're talking about was light. I don't know what's in the soil other than you said it was hot. Depends on your amendments. It's hard to know what's being released, and when. Good luck. -granger

The base is Sunshine Advanced #4, with added kelp, bone and blood meal. I've used this same mix, same nutes, in multiple grows with great success, and stronger more frequent feedings during flower. My personal theory is that I got a hot batch of SA#4, as I've heard of a couple other complaints.

I was also having some problems in veg like I mentioned before, and in the heart of that issue I checked my root zone very carefully. At that time, zero critters. Right now I've seen two different types of soil mites, one of which I presume to be H. Miles (or something very similar) and the other I'm not sure, but they are VERY small, can't even ID them as a mite without a scope and someone with bad eyes may not even see them. Extremely small and white/transparent.

From questions I've asked before, its been said that its very uncommon to encounter a soil mite that causes harm to your plants. I actually believe the larger mites that resemble H. Miles to be predatory, because I haven't seen a single FG flyer or larvae in a very long time, and I usually will come across a few here and there.

Hmm... so the general consensus would be that this symptom is a "burn?" I don't know why things can't be more straight forward. Very bizarre though that ANY problem I've had in this garden is basically isolated to one strain. I've basically been under the impression that I've gotten a bad/hot batch of soil (whatever the possibility of that may be, or exactly what that would entail, I don't know) and this Qrazy Train cut is very finicky.

I really was leaning towards a def here... in my days of burning plants when I first started growing years ago looked much different than this in color, at least. But after years of growing in 100% organic amended soil with supplemental teas, I don't have much experience with overfert. In fact I started using liquid bottled nutes again fairly recently. Side note, due to my previous frustrations with this garden I have 150 gallons of organic soil, with pro mix as the base, that's been cooking for 8 weeks. Plus my next gardens plants in 2 weeks into veg in that same mix. Back to just adding water for a bit. Fucking a.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

How sure am I?

Check my posts for ohhhh about the last year.

Sounds right to me,, minor phantom deficcencys in veg, but not bad then it hits hard very early into flower - gets worse fast.

Leaves look alot like yours.

That would be the first thing to eliminate. Or confirm.

You have a good idea of the lifecycle and why flyiers are the kiss of death. You do know flyiers are pregnant and the babies they carry are pregnant, right?

From the sounds of it - the sick one would be the first to have a field day with. Maybe you can control the outbreak. -- maybe....

If you dont have sticky traps - get some. Maybe they party and have orgies after you leave.



Anyways,,, let's all hope you are correct and the squatters you have are friendly, cause I've been beat like a stray dog for a while now.

Your feeding sounds a little hot, depending on the blood meal and how long it got to compost in. - maybe the sick one is sensitive.
It could happen.

Not in my world.
Ever.

Extremely small and white/transparent. - that sounds just like a R/A

 

[Holdin']

How sure am I?

Check my posts for ohhhh about the last year.

Sounds right to me,, minor phantom deficcencys in veg, but not bad then it hits hard very early into flower - gets worse fast.

Leaves look alot like yours.

That would be the first thing to eliminate. Or confirm.

You have a good idea of the lifecycle and why flyiers are the kiss of death. You do know flyiers are pregnant and the babies they carry are pregnant, right?

From the sounds of it - the sick one would be the first to have a field day with. Maybe you can control the outbreak. -- maybe....

If you dont have sticky traps - get some. Maybe they party and have orgies after you leave.



Anyways,,, let's all hope you are correct and the squatters you have are friendly, cause I've been beat like a stray dog for a while now.

Your feeding sounds a little hot, depending on the blood meal and how long it got to compost in. - maybe the sick one is sensitive.
It could happen.

Not in my world.
Ever.

Extremely small and white/transparent. - that sounds just like a R/A

I did just check your previous posts just for shits... it looks like RA's have consumed most of your time here at IC. My apologies. But at the same time, it looks like you are on the bandwagon of figuring out surefire way of erradicating those mother fuckers... Rep+ for that. I've never (and hopefully still) had a problem with RAs nor do I even know another grower in my area who has. Not saying it can't happen... just saying... I hope to hell.

I do know that the flyers are pregnant, but didn't know the offspring from the flyers where also pregnant. Holy fuck, talk about evolving with survival of the fittest in my mind. That is terrible. I've read quite a bit of the RA thread just to know another enemy, never saw that bit of info. Good to know, I suppose.

By having a field day, you mean breaking out the scope? If lights were on I'd been down there a few hours ago checking. That is the plan at the first light. I wonder how I'm going to effectively check in a smartpot? I'll really only be able to look at the roots that are through the bottoms.

I had a lone sticky trap in my garden for quite a while... got it stuck to my god damn arm a week or so ago so took it down... and no there wasn't any flyers caught. I have plenty more though, I will put a few up. Orgys after I leave can't be ruled out.

Sorry to hear about your invasions my friend.

So let me get this right just so it's not fuzzy. RA's will not only cause phantom defs but also phantom overfert?

A little hot? I don't know. Like I've said, I've used the same mix and nutes many of times. ON a much heavier scale. I know all gardens and strains are different... but damn it seems black and white, what I've done in the past. And considering the Qrazy Train strain is the only subject to this problem right now... I'm having a hard time putting it together. Not to mention I've never seen an overfert like what is in the pics. But then again, I've usually had quite problem-free gardens. I guess this one is my time. Yeah, this garden has left me scratching my head quite a bit.

RAs or not. What the fuck. I'm really banking on a bad batch of SSA#4. Consistent results without a change in methods really confuse me... I can easily see how one would suggest RAs.

I need to check my rootzone(s), sleep tonight is going to be my secondary enemy while I ponder an RA infestation. Just when 28 beautiful ladies being to swell and pack on the resin...

And last but not least, I checked those white/transparent critters under the scope - undoubtedly mites. Then, earlier I was reading about bulb mites being some sons of bitches, did some searches and don't believe those to be the very small mites that I have in my soil. I also noticed, if I spill a bit of water around any saucers, until that water evaporates these tiny little white/transparent mites will just kick it right there in the wet spot. At first I thought I saw some or something on the floor until I saw movement and pulled out the scope.

 

[Holdin']

How sure am I?

Check my posts for ohhhh about the last year.

Sounds right to me,, minor phantom deficcencys in veg, but not bad then it hits hard very early into flower - gets worse fast.

Leaves look alot like yours.

That would be the first thing to eliminate. Or confirm.

You have a good idea of the lifecycle and why flyiers are the kiss of death. You do know flyiers are pregnant and the babies they carry are pregnant, right?

From the sounds of it - the sick one would be the first to have a field day with. Maybe you can control the outbreak. -- maybe....

If you dont have sticky traps - get some. Maybe they party and have orgies after you leave.



Anyways,,, let's all hope you are correct and the squatters you have are friendly, cause I've been beat like a stray dog for a while now.

Your feeding sounds a little hot, depending on the blood meal and how long it got to compost in. - maybe the sick one is sensitive.
It could happen.

Not in my world.
Ever.

Extremely small and white/transparent. - that sounds just like a R/A

One more question - would a root aphid problem cause just a downward spiral? Or can problems seem to come and go? I had problems early in veg... then were corrected... then later in veg... then were corrected. Plants were lush before flip. All the problems seemed to be something like an imbalance/lockout/overfert. Fresh water always made a very positive difference, so this is what led me to believe in the theory of a bad batch of soil.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

During veg state, the plant grows above and below ground, and as it switches to flower - root growth stops to focus on flower and seed production - that's why flowering is when the problem can't be ignored. And by then, it's downward sprial time.

Many growers compalin of "phantom defficencys" in veg - sometimes slowed growth - almost always in a previously succesful operation with known nutes etc.

In really bad cases, the plant droops after a few hours of lights on, because uptake is so restricted. And also most bug outbreaks are also bring other problems like bad bacteria and fungus infections that may stay.

The more you talk,,, the more symptems I hear.

It's possible I'm wrong.
I was wrong awhile back,,, about 1979.

Go read this thread and compare then check back. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159960
Over 2,000 posts, but very educational

 

[Holdin']

Well if I do have the plague, then I have the "microbot" version. The white/transparent tiny little spec. I was just trying to look at them under the scope before I had to head out for the day.

This little critter seems to resemble a mite, to me anyways. I haven't been able to find any micro shots of this specific aphid.

This critter seems to have the same movement as the H. Miles in my soil. Moves pretty quickly proportional to its size. It seems to have 8 legs. Seems to die easily when in dry conditions. Like how I was saying they will hang out on wet spots near the pots if I spill water, but are dead by the time it dries up and I found carcasses near my saucers. Whatever they are there are tons of them, and I hope them to be harmless soil mites. They seem to just truck around in the medium with no set agenda, although I haven't had time to check under my smartpots with a scope to see if they are suckling on my roots. I will do that when I get home later.

I need a close up shot of this particular aphid to compare to.

I am thinking this is a mite, harmful or not I need to ID it. I'm not in complete denial of RA but I need to confirm or eliminate.

Thanks for your help.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

let me try this ONE MORE TIME,
Go read this thread and compare then check back. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159960
Over 2,000 posts, but very educational

pretty pictures too!

 

[Holdin']

I've gone through that thread many times, checking during free time today and I'm missing any close ups of this particular aphid. I'll check again. Busy... hard to read through 2000 posts looking for clear pic but I'll give it another shot.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

First page should get ya a few pics

 

[Holdin']

One pic just shows some tiny speckles on a net pot, the other is very blurry. Once I can get into my garden this afternoon I will capture some and take some pics with the scope.

 

[Minister]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=dH2DJDHR5Q4&desktop_uri=/watch?v=dH2DJDHR5Q4

At 2:20 they get a clear shot. Not even shure that is actual aphids, but we all somehow agreed to call this a root aphid infestation because nobody knows shit.

You will know if you got them after watching this clip.

What makes me think you may not have them, is that the interveinal parts look rusty necrotic rather than bleached out, as in yellow necrotic. That is how it manifested in my plants anyway.
Next fase is bleaching out of the whole leaf starting from the tip/edges.

All growers should have a habbit of checking roots, that way you know if something is not right.

Best of luck.

 

[Holdin']

I don't know if mine really move that quick... I'm going to get some pics of them so I can get a positive ID. Although I still have yet to find a clear pic of this "aphid" to compare to. All day I've been going through the RA thread and doing searches on the tiny white/transparent RA. Found varying info.... some growers who have been plagued by mysterious tiny white bugs for multiple harvests. But really haven't found any close up pics. That and after all this reading I'm slightly confused on treatment, if I do have RA. Being as how this garden is nearly 5 weeks in on basically all 8 week strains, and I'm really only seeing negative signs on a few plants of one strain, I'm going to ride it out in the worst case scenario.

Just need a legit plan of action once I positively ID. I'll be in the garden to nab some captives and take some pics with the scope shortly.

 

[Holdin']

Okay so FUCK. Me.

I hate it when I am wrong, especially when it comes to this god damn plague.

I'm about 99% sure these are RA now. What I thought to be a teeny tiny mite, seems to be this rampant white-speck-piece-of-shit-root-aphid. The front "legs" seem to be antennae? And the plants aren't looking any better... a couple more now have the same symptom on some of the leaves. And now problems aren't isolated to one strain... I have a single Blue Cheese lady out of a total of 28 plants that went from sort of pale green to now yellowing.

The only comforting fact is, that now I know it wasn't my gardening skills. I've been truly confused through the last veg cycle, and now flower cycle. Like I mentioned before, I had some strange lock out/imbalance in veg, but was corrected, and everytime I fed them during veg, at even light solutions, they reacted very poorly. Also, at times they seemed particularly sensitive to light. A couple people said RA could be a possibility... and either missed these when I was checking my root zone as I didn't know these little white speck RAs existed, or the other MITE that I WAS aware of was causing THAT problem and now these mother fuckers have also taken hold. Fucked up thing is, I thought all these problems were behind me, and up until a couple days ago all my ladies were looking beautiful. All healthy, covered in resin, etc...

Anyways, here's the best pic I could get. Also could upload a short video to see their behavior/movement if anyone is interested. Oh, and turns out these little critters can MOVE. I didn't think they were all that fast but holy shit, for their size it's pretty crazy.

And here is the mite that is also roaming through my soil, in some plants they are in pretty high numbers. I'd thought they were H. Miles but I'm not so sure.

Ah man, this is stressing me the fuck out. I've also got some plants in veg in my house (main 4k garden is in an outbuilding) and I was just checking them... only see the orange H. Miles-like mites in some and none of these "RAs" in any of them so far.

But after all these stories I've read of RA's, and some stories of mysterious little tiny white "mites", I'm seriously sick to my stomach.

.
.
.


What is my best plan of action for the girls in flower? The RA thread is very confusing on what can and can't be used in flower, to at least try to control them without a fucked up harvest. Basically everything in my flower room is an 8 week strain. Friday/Saturday will be 5 weeks in.

Or should I just put a bullet in my head?


Edit: I looked at the micro shots of of the YouTube vide posted... I see big differences there? I've never been so confused.

 

[medicalmj]

Well if I do have the plague, then I have the "microbot" version. The white/transparent tiny little spec. I was just trying to look at them under the scope before I had to head out for the day.

This little critter seems to resemble a mite, to me anyways. I haven't been able to find any micro shots of this specific aphid.

This critter seems to have the same movement as the H. Miles in my soil. Moves pretty quickly proportional to its size. It seems to have 8 legs. Seems to die easily when in dry conditions. Like how I was saying they will hang out on wet spots near the pots if I spill water, but are dead by the time it dries up and I found carcasses near my saucers. Whatever they are there are tons of them, and I hope them to be harmless soil mites. They seem to just truck around in the medium with no set agenda, although I haven't had time to check under my smartpots with a scope to see if they are suckling on my roots. I will do that when I get home later.

I need a close up shot of this particular aphid to compare to.

I am thinking this is a mite, harmful or not I need to ID it. I'm not in complete denial of RA but I need to confirm or eliminate.

Thanks for your help.

Those aren't RAs and they are NOT harmful. If you have soil, or peat you have them. You can even get them in rock wool. Oribatid or Astigmatid mite is what you have, or both. 1200 species in NA alone and most abundant soil creature. Also most imortant soil creature. They are decomposer. They do not feed on roots. There is a bulb might that is bad for bulbs but it don't like regular roots.

I seen this before on my plants a long time ago. I also was in smartpots. Some suggest smartpots accumulate salts.