Unholy Grail

[SuperHemp]

So DJ Short breeds for no tolerance/no ceiling? Thats not something I've heard before but exactly the kind of information I'm looking for. Can anyone add to this or another breeder whose strains are bred to have those characteristics? Thank you SuperHemp, I am def going to have to look harder at DJ's stuff.



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This is a post from Dj Short himself

My Opinion of most of today’s herb:

For the record: IMNSHO most of the herb available today I find to be sub-par. None of the varieties circulating today are part of my repertoire for a reason. None of it occupies my personal stash for the same reasons.

Some of the hashish I am encountering is gaining in purity (mainly due to technique and process such as vacuum distilled, pharmaceutically pure ether extracts or gas/columnar extractions, etc.) but still lacking in quality and overall desirability. Hopefully soon someone will have enough quality varieties going to produce some good herb, resins and oil. My personal stash is 100% of my own making.

The main problem I encounter with current day herb is that of bland potency, usually resulting in some form of discomfort or anxiety inducing effect. The second most common problem I encounter with today’s herb is tolerance burnout. The next most common problems I find is short duration of high and a very low ceiling to the high—meaning that the ‘high’ is short lived and that the more of it consumed does not broaden the experience. Another problem I encounter has to do with duration of shelf life, though this may be as much due to curing technique as genetics. I recently sampled a variety called “Grunk” (for Grape/Skunk I’m assuming) that looked and tasted great, it had a strong punch that was acceptable, but the duration of the high was miniscule. Also, the tolerance burnout of the Grunk was quickly achieved negating whatever desirability it possessed.

I am sorry to seem like such a pot snob, but I feel compelled to be honest about the subject. I have had discussions with some commercial producers who insist upon growing plants that produce the greatest bulk of highly potent but not very desirable product from an always limited space They ask my opinion and I suggested F-13 (and today would recommend either F-13, Vanilluna or flo) to which they scoff; “I get 15% more production with my ‘brand-x super bud’.” I try to argue that 15% more mediocre herb is just that: 15% more mediocre herb. It is hopefully merely a matter of time before demand inspires an increase in commercial quality of herb, and truly sincere entrepreneurs rise to the occasion to once again produce, import and distribute a truly quality product.

A relevant story here is the one about the time we (Americans) came the closest to legalizing herb. This was in 1978 when 11 states decriminalized possession laws. In my opinion, much of that progress is directly related to the fact that there was so much really good herb commercially available then. 1978 was the time that the highland sativa (Oaxaca, Thai, Colombia, etc.) occupied a large niche in the commercial market. This fact was due to the efforts and cooperation of producers/importers and distributors who made a concerted effort to satisfy the quality demands of a public that had the opportunities to experience so much high quality offerings, a public with the ability to exercised that choice. The hashish of the era was also some of the best—also due to production/importation/distribution choices made toward quality.

Ideally, a 15% reduction of production in lieu of increased quality and desirability would increase the value (and demand) of the overall product by more than 15%. Again, hopefully, this will merely be a matter of time as more sincere efforts are focused on quality production.

A good example of what I am referring to would be the wine industry and the production/distribution and sales of ‘fortified’ wines. Sure, some people may appreciate the bland potency and economy of ethylene glycol (anti-freeze) added to their wine, but there really is no acceptable quality substitute for a fine Merlot, Pinot or Chardonnay. Some argue that the medical community often demands certain extreme potencies for reduction of specific pains and ailments. My response is that given the choice, most people will choose desirable quality over bland potency every time.

 

[jus'plain'gill]

Thats a great read, thank you for sharing. Since we're quoting DJ, I'll go ahead and use his words to try and add detail to the description of what I'm looking for

This is the High I'm in search of:

Being ‘stoned’ is not my goal. Being ‘high’ or ‘enhanced’ is. Simply, I am not into the ‘stupification’ aspects of herb. I like herb that opens me up, that brightens my day, that makes me think and feel in a more positive way. I am also into the herb that motivates and stimulates creativity.

Thanks again for looking and contributing.




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[Relentless]

ill have to try more dj herb in the future.. i wasnt impressed with the two phenos of old time moonshine that I had..

 

[Lisdexik]

My pick - Kali Mist

11 week flowering
Devastating sativa high w/ no ceiling and little tolerance build
Almost no odor in flowering and veg
Awesome lemon taste

I've had my pheno of KM for 4 years and still LOVE to smoke it, I can't get enough

Lisdexik

 

[jus'plain'gill]

I keep hearing Kali Mist over and over again. That and Sensi Star seem to come up most consistently.

So, Lisdexik, you're seed would've come from 2005-2006? Any idea what the chances are of the current Kali Mist living up to the Kali you're familiar with? I don't mind spending that kind of money on a couple packs of beans but I want to be sure of what I'm getting, ya know!

Thanks again for your input.



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[Fuzz420]

Be fair warned that Kali Mist has only 1 pheno to finish under 11 weeks. The rest go much longer. Me personally dont even like that pheno, the longer finishing pheno's will have you soaring

 

[jus'plain'gill]

Thank you all for your suggestions! I've put in my order: Kali mist and DJ's F-13.

They should be here in the next week or two. I am very, very excited! Prob going to start the F-13 first and get myself sorta familiar before I throw more "new" genetics on my plate. Please share any input, advice, or opinions you have on either of these two strains.



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[highsteppa]

Nice choices, I grew some F13 a last year and it was good stuff

 

[jus'plain'gill]

So I received my beans from the two orders around Oct 1 and waited all of about 90 seconds to begin germinating them! I had 100% germ from both packs, 11/11 on the Kali and 10/10 on the F13. All plants came up mostly healthy save for one runt/mutant F13 that I have since become very fond of despite its small stature. I did have an issue with my soil being a little too hot but a quick transplant solved those issues right quick. I vegged the plants out for about 4.5 weeks before flipping to 12/12. I am now two weeks in and have sexed all 21 plants. I have ended up with 4 Kali mist ladies and 7 Kali males and 2 F13 ladies and 8 F13 males. I am perfectly pleased with these numbers because all along I have intended to make seeds of both strains. I do have a question or two though...


I'm pretty sure I have read in a couple instances that F13 males rarely produce viable pollen. If anyone has insight into how "rare" a breedable male F13 is, please do tell. Are we talking 1 out of 5 or 1 out of 100? I have 8 atm and I plan on keeping them all in an attempt to not only make seeds but to avoid narrowing the gene pool with only one male. I also plane on making seeds of the Kali but I'm not quite as worried about these studs. I've already culled 4 males and the 3 I'm keeping will all be used to pollinate lower buds on the 4 Kali ladies as well as a couple lower buds on the F13s.

I guess that's the only real question I have but I would like to hear any advice any member here has on growing either of these two strains. I am very, very much looking forward to trying the finished product here in 2-3 months. I have been a daily smoker for many years but have only come across "stellar" pot maybe 5 times so... yeah, I am very excited

It absolutely wouldn't be possible without the knowledge that is provided on this forum and the advice and wisdom that is shared among the members of this community!



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[Farang]

May I suggest Love Potion. It flowers in about 10 weeks and it doesnt smell much during flower. One pheno is called rootbeer and grows almost like an indica with wider leafs, but the high is all sativa. I didn´t notice much of a ceiling with this one. A real mindbender if you ask me. A little bit edgy at first, but the edge wears of quickly and you will feel great for a couple of hours.

Edit: Sorry, I didn´t see that you already made your choise. 2 very interesting strains indeed! They are booth on my want to grow/smoke list. I wish you the best with your grow!

P.S I think Mr. Alkaline have some very interesting notes on F13 if dont remember wrong, check it out!

 

[Sideways]

Jack the ripper Gets me ripped EVERY time, higher every hit, tastes great, does not smell much, finishes in about 9 weeks. I see alot of votes for C99 and its great but as far as taste, the cut I have of JTR cuts it up every time- TRY IT.

 

[jus'plain'gill]

I found her and her name is F13

I found her and her name is F13

This is my Holy Grail of pot. This thread is approaching two years old and, in the grand scheme of things, I believe this was very fast to find such a wonderful specimen! It's not necessarily this phenotype or that one, it is more that every seed has the potential to produce something extraordinary. Out of my 10 pack, I got 3 ladies and 7 males (not 2 and 8 as previously stated); one male out of the bunch had viable pollen so while I don't have a clone of any of my original F13 plants, I do have many more seeds to grow.


Her buzz matches my head PERFECTLY, everything else is just a bonus. The coffee flavor was lovely, her appearance this round is gorgeous, and even though her yields aren't real big she is done in less than 10 weeks. Although her yields appear bigger this round and I know I'll do even better this next round. They definitely benefit from topping, training, and a longer veg time. I learned that in dirt they dislike a "hot" mix and prefer lighter feedings in general. Currently in soiless, I've managed to feed at full strength the whole way. But the high she gives is just supreme, and she does give and give. Here she is at 66 days.

I have clones of this one and one other phenotype that is a going to need just a couple days longer. I have also found that F13 clones very easily, the beans need a little help germinating however. You can scuff but I typically just pinch between my thumb and finger after a 12 hour soak, I got 19/20 from my homegrown seed.

I believe once I find a couple keeper clones and get them dialed in, I may not grow anything else. I am 100% spoiled on her, the Kali Mist did nothing for me, nothing I've sampled has come close, I mean:

NOTHING HAS COME CLOSE TO PLEASING MY HEAD LIKE F13



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[Rusty420]

the itch is scratched..glad to have been along for the ride.....id smoke that bitch any day..:

 

[Phillthy]

my carolina blue cut fits the bill. blue sat 2.2 x grape krush. no tolerance, no ceiling, the more you smoke the higher you get. stinky in veg, uber berry in flower. sticky, tasty and done in 70 days. i cant let the plant go.

 

[señorsloth]

that's awesome! beautiful plant, and it's cool how this thread led you to find it, was it the first one suggested here that you tried? or did you try others as well? your definition of the holy grail is the same as mine and i'm interested in your opinion on the others suggested as well

 

[jus'plain'gill]

the itch is scratched..glad to have been along for the ride.....id smoke that bitch any day..:

Thanks Rusty, I hope to smoke her any and EVERY day!!

my carolina blue cut fits the bill. blue sat 2.2 x grape krush. no tolerance, no ceiling, the more you smoke the higher you get. stinky in veg, uber berry in flower. sticky, tasty and done in 70 days. i cant let the plant go.

Just because I've found my Grail doesn't mean I'm gonna quit looking, hell no. Your description of your Carolina Blue sounds like it's right up my alley (heavy on the DJ Shorts genes right?), I'd be interested to try her out. Is there a source for seeds or is she clone only?

that's awesome! beautiful plant, and it's cool how this thread led you to find it, was it the first one suggested here that you tried? or did you try others as well? your definition of the holy grail is the same as mine and i'm interested in your opinion on the others suggested as well

I tried Kali Mist and F13. I was completely unimpressed with the buzz from the Kali but I guess that could have been poor luck on my part with finding 4 bland females out of the 11 pack of seed. After doing more research though, I believe it is older Kali Mist that is desirable and that current seed doesn't represent what the strain "used to be". Those are the only two I've tried from all the suggestions here but if I were to go with another mentioned here it would probably be Sensi Star from Paradise. However, I'm looking more closely at the sativas from ACE or CannaBiogen, I just need to do more research and get more opinions. I'm also pretty certain I'm gonna get some more of DJ's work; Vanilluna for sure and maybe Cocoa Kush. After so many seed purchases, I have to say only DJ Short has my full confidence in a quality end product to the point that I'm compelled to try out his other work

That being said, I fully intend to continue my search for exceptional cannabis. I'm excited to explore other breeders' gear as well as more extreme sativas and maybe even some landrace genes. I can be very choosy now that I've found this F13 though, it'll benefit me greatly to able to do my search more slowly and thoughtfully because I can be sure that no matter what else I find, at the end of the day I'll still have F13 to fall back on.

Take care all,



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[Mrgreenharvest]

Sweetest cindy 99 by DGS
great high, great smells, very potent, big yields, very frosty..
finishes in 9-10 weeks depending on how you like it

 

[Rusty420]

i mean just look at it..all purpur n everything, its what the kids want these daze...

 

[señorsloth]

I can be very choosy now that I've found this F13 though, it'll benefit me greatly to able to do my search more slowly and thoughtfully because I can be sure that no matter what else I find, at the end of the day I'll still have F13 to fall back on.

lucky! i have a chemdog ibl and og kush pheno that satisfy most of our requirements, except they flower too long, im honestly really sick of the 11-12 week flowering schedule. they aren't "ceilingless" but it is really high, it's physically impossible for me to smoke more than a joint of chemdog, i'm not as high as i could get, but something makes it impossible for me to take another hit. i want that kinda high that you can't take another hit, not from some hidden reason in my mind but because im laying on the ground drooling in a stupor(ive had it), brain barely functioning...not saying id spend my life drooling on the floor but i want something in my stable capable of bringing me to that point.

currently i'm trying c99, it's not the only strain i'm trying, but the other is for yeild and wont be potent enough for a holey grail status. i'm a little disappointed to see so many people say c99 isn't everything that people have been claiming for so many years, it's been a strain ive dreamed about growing since the overgrow days, and to have people say that you build up a tolerance to it in a week are really killing my buzz...i really hope that wasn't everybody's experience...

 

[THE PABLOS]

The lack of stank and the tolerance build up will be tough ones to overcome. All the best...happy hunting.