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TS1000 daisy chained ;)

f-e

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How quiet GMT? At 600mm a cooker hood might make sense. The motors in them have multiple windings, so when you select speeds, it's like swapping motors. Not slowing one down with power regulation.

Power regulation is usually a problem. It's only really variac's that can lower the voltage. Other methods cycle the power rapidly, which causes torque spikes and thus physical vibration. Even the variac has issues, in that it's still 50hz, but the fan isn't running at a multiple of 50 any longer. So it's applying power at the wrong time. Another vibration problem. The EC motor controller generally alters frequency to change speed. With the power disconnected before it rises on each and every pulse. The variac has no current limiting, so just can't compare, although is quite good still.

I really would look at hoods if you can find one in the small adds. It's a 100mm rvk with speed adjustment. In a box to further dampen the noise. Just chuck it on the roof. It will suck the walls in if asked to.

I don't tend to rely on the tent flaps. I like to find a sock, and use a bit of duct as a light trap. Knowing where the air enters, gives the opportunity to direct it through the tent.

At 40db and 250 cubic thingies, this 25w fan shifts some air, if in free space. £20 https://www.screwfix.com/p/manrose-x...ite-240v/11640
I reckon at half the volume (not to our ear, but how it carries) this 65 cubics 14w would probably do at £17 https://www.screwfix.com/p/xpelair-v...ite-240v/9931r
The cheap ass option is £12 for a similar 85 cubics, but is the loudest of all three https://www.screwfix.com/p/manrose-x...ite-240v/11097

Problem is, they are all about as perky as a desk fan. Designed to work with a bit of resistance, like in a bathroom with the door closed. Your exact situation is hard to judge. Non are wired yet either.

I did once buy a mixed flow (TT) fan, thinking it couldn't be that bad. An eBay item, for about £20. It sucked so bad, I gave it the local shop so they could save others from making the same mistake.

You could probably go with the £17 fan, knowing you could add another at the air-in point. The pair will do a cubic meter a minute. If you needed a pair. Or, if quite poor, you could move the 17£ to inlet duty and put the 20£ on the roof. It's not exactly quiet, like the boxed in rvk of a cooker hood though.

I have no doubt I would be looking in the small adds for a cooker hood. Nothing else is actually worth messing about with. If you can find a neff they are great. The rotating mass is balanced individually and the very best motors used. Women want a new kitchen every week, so £20 is all you need spend. You are familiar with the noise of them, and bathroom fans.

I blow smoke at my 25w bathroom fan, and it just hangs around. The thing struggles to open it's own shutters. There is only so much corner cutting you can do, before it just doesn't work.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
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I couldn't deal with a cooker hood extractor going, I don't use the one in the kitchen when cooking because I can't stand the noise. I have a particular hatred of white noise. Honestly it tears my soul apart. I need quiet, the noise of the HP's running was too much, i had to drown that out by turning a TV on in that room whenever the lights came on. The bliss of a silent led now can't be destroyed by the agony of white noise being introduced. I need to not be able to hear it. I was thinking oversized and turned down would do the trick. At this point I'm seriously considering just cutting a hole in the roof of the tents and going back to passive convection cooling. I can't believe that in this age of technology, there isn't a quiet way of moving air around. The problem is there will be two tents to cool, so the noise will be doubled. Along with the cost. This is exactly why I've wanted to set the first I got, up for 8 months now, and it's still in the box. The newer smaller one is sitting with a small light in it that doesn't need cooling, and is purely for cuts and seedlings. I need to get this going, but at the moment, even considering it causes me stress. I'm frankly just not a practical person. I like to sit with a solid state laptop doing accountancy tasks in silence and without physical movement. This practical stuff just annoys me because nothing ever works the way it should. I really appreciate the help, but I need to get quieter or it just won't work for me. If we can stay at below £200 for the two, I'll be content, if we can stay quiet.
 

f-e

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That's a tall order.
If you feel passive might work, then PC case fans could be the ticket. Tent socks hold them nicely. A 140mm fan can shift a bit. The noise levels are usually published. If you run 4 of them, add 6db to the noise level of just one, to get the total. Charts online explain db with practical examples.
The Arctic F14 is £8 and does over a meter a minute. Using online conversions, it's 0.08 sone is ~18db so 4 fans is 24db. Another chart give 15db as our hearing threshold and 30db as a whisper.

You can go fan2fan with plug'n'play wires, but I'm unsure if a power brick exists with that type of plug on it. Except a pc psu, and a used small form factor supply is like £8 too.

Wiring a pc supply isn't bad. You chop off everything you don't need (or just leave them hanging) except the one green wire and a black. The green wire must touch a black, as that's the power switch. Easy.. just twist two wires.
I'm not sure how many fan like plugs a PC psu supplies. Some will be the larger style and adapters exist. A PC person (see: geek) might answer that better. Though I'm happy to check your work, if you do some :)


I'm not sure that could be bettered for your needs. IIRC an exchange between 1 and 3 mins is typical. Or I'm chatting rubbish.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
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I've been looking for most of yesterday, the screwfix link was great. They've got a bunch of bathroom extractors, some of which are down at 12db. They're more costly, and don't move s much air, but I can deal with that. I need to get into the grow setup forum and see minimum air movement requirements for different volumes. My main question though, well two, how hard would it be for an electrical idiot to wire a bathroom extractor to a mains plug and how come some can be mounted virticaly and horizontally, and some only horizontally?
 

GMT

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Oh 3 mins for the entire volume of the grow space, ok, I'll er get the calculator out lol. Some are M3 per hour some are litres per second and some are CFM. Like getting a damn mobile phone contract
 

GMT

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Hey f-e , sorry to hassle you mate, but could you do me a favour and check this fan out. I think this is the one I'll go for if I can just wire it up to a standard plug and if you think it'll be good enough. I'll grab one at first and try it in both tents to see what's what, then probably order a second. It seems to be just what I'm after, but then you know just how clueless I am with this.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/vent-axia-vash100b-3-2w-bathroom-extractor-fan-white-240v/816hv
 

f-e

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It's essentially the arctic fan in a box. Same 3 watts of power. With a bit of shielding that dampens the noise and lowers it's capacity a little (54 down from 74iirc).

Fan blades come in various styles. If I use a bicycle as an analogy, the blades are like gears. Some produce little speed, but can climb any mountain. Others can go very fast, but won't manage a slope. A desk fan shifts the most air, but a sheet of paper stops it. We are looking at things like that. While a centrifugal fan doesn't shift half as much air, but will pull in that sheet of paper and shred it.

The returns policy at screwfix might get you a credit note, if you wanted to try it. I think you would need two per tent though, one in, one out. It's humidity that will be the problem. That would be far too much money, if it were the case.

By nature a fan ruffles the air. A physically larger fan can go slower and shift the same air volume, as you said. If made for that purpose that's good, but if slowed down for that purpose, it doesn't quite work. Most controls pulse the big motor, making noise peaks. This is mostly the electric hum, but has some effect of the white noise. This is where the EC fan triumphs. It's very good speed regulation. So you can buy the big fan and slow it. So you have no more hum then entirely necessary, but the white noise is still present. It's very easy to block white noise though.

When I spoke of noise for multiple fans, it only concerned them sat on a table. Which is how they are measured. You must of shut a bathroom door before, and heard the fan get louder. If a fan can cleanly move the air along, it's less ruffled than a struggling fan. For this reason, you may find a balanced pair for in/out duties makes less noise than a single fan. Most silencing is about smoothing the flow. I recently took the flexible ducting off my fan, and installed a very short length of hard pipe. Measuring the sound level difference ( I forget, but posted it) it was very impressive. Just smoothing out the ruffled air a bit.

We really need a PC guy to help us with availability. I recently got a 10w PC fan which blew so hard it fell over instantly. However.. it was proper noisy. PC fans are EC fans though, so that fan would of slowed down great. If only I knew where to buy a simple speed control that was plug'n'play as I think for a 3 wire fan, it's just a variable resistor. We really need a thread on PC fans.. We are spending a lot on buying them in tubes.

Wiring a domestic extractor isn't that hard. I would get a plug and flex off an old appliance by the road. Then you don't have to put a plug on some wire yourself. You chose a fan without any complications such as run-timer, so that's good. It will just need two wires from your flex connecting. If you put up a pic of the fans connections (if you buy one) I can draw some coloured lines on it. A few of us can.

It's good to see you moving into tents. The wardrobes due for retirement?
 

GMT

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F-e, I think its more like lite duties for a while. Separate them into two feeders. A TS1000 in each, turned down, the mini SP in the 2x2 and the TSL2000 in the 4x2. That's the goal at the mo. That would let me do more than 1 thing at a time.
Seemed that was a no on the one I picked for a fan candidate. I thought I'd struck gold with that. Oh well.


Hi Mack, yeah I started a collection. Now it's just putting them all to use at the same time that's an issue.
 

f-e

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I hadn't realised this was the Mars forum. Nor that they sell fans. I have started a thread on PC fans. The fan you posted is slightly inferiour to the F14, once you get a box over it to dampen the noise a little. I can't really show you how loud they are, as even a few together are only competition for bubbles breaking the surface of my tank, through an air-stone. Which is another noise that goes with a lid on. Noise is a concern for me too. My bathroom is louder than my grow. I couldn't use anything other than PC fans. Only my main extractor is noisy, as it's running two carbons. I use a spectrum analiser to listen to my grow and show me what noise issue's I have. The only things that hum at 50hz are my circulator pump and air pump. Even my drip pump is now an EC motor with soft start :)

This is my extractor. The couple of duct adapters to the right of the fan, have some egg-crate foam lining. That tiny silencer reduced noise 75%. Virtually all my noise was because my ear could about see the fan blades through the ducting. The churned up air sending pressure pulses is all directions, saw the duct as nothing. This hard pipe silencer literally stops my ear seeing the fan directly. The air turbulence has a much longer journey to take down the tube before reaching the flex it can escape from. Which is where I measured the 6db noise reduction. 75%. From a bit of tube. Because all them pressure waves get more time to cancel out. This is something you could do to many fans. The fan you looked at has a tube one end, and a cover the other. Air noise is easily dampened down with enough hardpipe.
fetch?id=17866416&d=1622117857.jpg

This is how the screwfix fan is 6db quieter than the PC fan, and doesn't breathe so well with the same power consumed. A tube and a wall.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
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Out of gratitude and loyalty, mars were my first stop for fans. Sadly, UK doesn't get stocked until Xmas. So I need to get this going. I'm assuming the run off timer thing should be avoided, if that could just be disconnected somehow easily, then there's one rated at 75m3 pH. For a tenner less that's 16 dB. But I figured keep it simple. I'm going to download a sound meter from Google play. I thought I had one, but it must have been on a different phone. Then I'm going to science kid it, and go around measuring how loud things are. I need to know how much difference there is in 12, 16 and 30 dB. That may cause me to waste some money on something quiet and useless or make a genius purchase, or go down the standard solution road. First I'm going to find your pc fan thread.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
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We're getting word heavy again, just small bulbs in for now, one at the top cfl, one at the bottom 9w led.
hamlet and black ghash clones. Ecsdxsss which I'm assuming is ojd being lazy and should be labelled sssdh rather than sss. 2 x Ojd f1 nycj x og Chem D. One bruised nuts fasciated clone, and just popping its head out of the soil an ecsdxsss x black ghash.

IMG-20210815-WA0001.jpg
IMG-20210815-WA0000.jpg
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
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And how it looks with the SP150 in. I lined it up with the vent holes and opened the one in the roof, let's check the temp with no fan.

IMG_20210815_213047.jpg
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
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I know it's 15 w less power than the TS1000, but it stays a lot cooler. I'm going to lower the light below the two side vents to see if that makes any difference. The temperature here is much cooler than it has been recently, and I'm sure on a hot day, cooling will be a requirement, but at this point, the only reason to add a fan at all to this tent, would be to get airflow for the plants, not the light. The 3 6" vents at the top of the tent (2 at the sides and 1 in the roof) couple with the 3 filtered massive vents at the bottom (the unfiltered fan hole is closed at the mo) seem to be letting air flow through the tent convection style. As winter draws in, I could see a need to actually close some of the vents to keep some warmth in.
 

Mars Hydro Led

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I know it's 15 w less power than the TS1000, but it stays a lot cooler. I'm going to lower the light below the two side vents to see if that makes any difference. The temperature here is much cooler than it has been recently, and I'm sure on a hot day, cooling will be a requirement, but at this point, the only reason to add a fan at all to this tent, would be to get airflow for the plants, not the light. The 3 6" vents at the top of the tent (2 at the sides and 1 in the roof) couple with the 3 filtered massive vents at the bottom (the unfiltered fan hole is closed at the mo) seem to be letting air flow through the tent convection style. As winter draws in, I could see a need to actually close some of the vents to keep some warmth in.

The weather here also becomes cooler now. winter grow season is coming. :biggrin:
 

GMT

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I need to get a dehumidifier too. I'm tired of my window looking like it just went through a car wash in the winter. Something else mars should consider selling really. Most growers have them.
 

f-e

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Out of gratitude and loyalty, mars were my first stop for fans. Sadly, UK doesn't get stocked until Xmas. So I need to get this going. I'm assuming the run off timer thing should be avoided, if that could just be disconnected somehow easily, then there's one rated at 75m3 pH. For a tenner less that's 16 dB. But I figured keep it simple. I'm going to download a sound meter from Google play. I thought I had one, but it must have been on a different phone. Then I'm going to science kid it, and go around measuring how loud things are. I need to know how much difference there is in 12, 16 and 30 dB. That may cause me to waste some money on something quiet and useless or make a genius purchase, or go down the standard solution road. First I'm going to find your pc fan thread.

The run-on timer would just be an added expense, and an extra wire to connect. Usually you can find the same fan without it, with it, or even with humidity control. All at different price points.

When you buy a dehumidifier, look for one with humidity controls you can set the % with. They are quite common now, and will mean it can't dry your room too much. If can be useful to set one at 60% in early veg, while drying the buds from the last crop. A time when the plants don't make much humidity, but you want the dehu~ running
 

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