True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

[zanog]

Z, read this as well.
See how future handled this whole debacle. I would say he is a big Tammy Wynette fan.
https://future4200.com/t/true-terpenes-new-thread/26458/14

[youtubeif]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=0ahUKEwii85S-j9HiAhWDmOAKHWkuBgkQ8DUIUzAC&usg=AOvVaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov


[/youtubeif]

I did read this thread now, it was short... you meant #39 in that thread? Or you meant the other true terpenes thread. Also this video link just throws me to the top of the page, and I don't get the reference to Tammy Wynette (I know almost nothing about country music), maybe the lack of the video.

 

[Future4200]

The QA/QC aspect of their GMP compliance, something I am very familiar with, is what I was referring to when I made that remark. The lady they have working that department is on her shit.

I made it clear from the beginning I was not in this to divulge any of their trade secrets. I have recommended to them numerous times to release their ingredient list, but they have chosen not to.

I had 2 Terpene companies in the GLG, TT and Floraplex, and to be clear, I'm not convinced smoking any concentrated terpenes (cannabis or not) is healthy. That doesn't mean other people want to smoke them, and I'm not really inclined to tell people what to do or not do. Good majority of cannabis processors and consumers right now want Terpenes in their products. Now I only have one, and have mad it clear that no companies selling consumer goods will be allowed to join. FP listed exactly the ingredients they use.

 

[ozzieAI]

I had 2 Terpene companies in the GLG, TT and Floraplex, and to be clear, I'm not convinced smoking any concentrated terpenes (cannabis or not) is healthy. That doesn't mean other people want to smoke them, and I'm not really inclined to tell people what to do or not do. Good majority of cannabis processors and consumers right now want Terpenes in their products. Now I only have one, and have mad it clear that no companies selling consumer goods will be allowed to join. FP listed exactly the ingredients they use.

Toxicant Formation in Dabbing: The Terpene Story

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5623941/

be safe people....

 

[slant.i]

Toxicant Formation in Dabbing: The Terpene Story

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5623941/

be safe people....

Even more reason to be aware of what is in the product.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Interesting article, Ozzie. Just think if dabbing turns out to be toxic. Who goes out of business? All 'coil' based vape manufacturers. All the extraction equipment manufacturers. All the terp companies (which wouldn't be a bad thing IMO). Lots of people who put their life in an untested 'trend' that could end any second.

I wonder how many of those companies would be prepared for something like that.






.

 

[Future4200]

Since when do Americans care about the health aspects of what they consume?

Cigarettes
Processed Food
Sugar

Most legal states already require cannabis to be labeled with a warning about the possible health ramifications.

Diabetes and heart disease are much more concerning, yet Coke and Pepsi don't have to label their poison as such.

The government should require transparency in labeling, like with GMO for instance, but should never be allowed the authority to tell people what the can or can not consume.

 

[audiohi]

Since when do Americans care about the health aspects of what they consume?

...

Seriously?

 

[zanog]

Z, read this as well.
See how future handled this whole debacle. I would say he is a big Tammy Wynette fan.
https://future4200.com/t/true-terpenes-new-thread/26458/14

[youtubeif]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=0ahUKEwii85S-j9HiAhWDmOAKHWkuBgkQ8DUIUzAC&usg=AOvVaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov[/youtubeif]

I don't get this Tammy Wynette thing, can somebody explain?

 

[Cvh]

I asked my favorite doctor of molecular biology to review our results to date and simply identify if the sample came from plants or petrochemical. He asked for a couple MS runs on broad peaks and a NIST study of the results. More when I have those results.

@Gray Wolf, is it possible to give us an update? Have you by now received any news from these tests?
(Or could you point me to the post if you already shared the results?)

Thanks.

 

[Weird]

Seriously?

talk about strawman argument



dude is the pits

 

[CannaRed]

I don't get this Tammy Wynette thing, can somebody explain?

American country western singer.
She had a famous song "stand by your man"

"You'll have bad times
And he'll have good times,
Doin' things that you don't understand
But if you love him you'll forgive him"

Basically means no matter what happens with TT, Future is going to stand by TT and support them.

Wasn't really funny first time. Definitely ain't funny now that I had to explain.

 

[Gray Wolf]

[FONT=&quot]As time and pages have gone by, a quick recap and then an update:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]My lab's analysis showed TT Viscosity not to be a terpene, including the triterpeneoid Sqalane. It was also not Triethyl citrate, which is not a terpene, but an ester of citric acid.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]TT Viscosity GC profile didn't match the profiles of the two most common mineral oils used in food and perfumery, though there are others which we didn't have samples of to compare.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That scan is posted below, with the mineral oil peak on the left and Viscosity on the right:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Our lab noted, that its GC profile was consistent with a mixture of heavy hydrocarbons, but declined to take a formal stand without more tests to determine the non-volatiles, and suggested an HPLC/MS. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The HPLC/MS reverse engineering bid was $31K, so I contacted a doctor of molecular biology and asked him for his assistance in simply identifying whether the mixture was plant or petroleum based. He asked for:[/FONT]

“A couple more mass spectra at different locations on both the broad peaks would make it easier to know more. A NIST library search on those different parts of peaks would also be helpful if possible.”

[FONT=&quot]Soooo we did and the other dirty peectures are the two peak and the NIST scans. After reviewing those extra scans and NIST library search, our doctor of molecular biologists had the following to say about the probable identity of True Terpenes Viscosity sample that we tested for him:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"To me this looks like heavy hydrocarbon preparation."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That is contrary to the label, which says, “Viscosity Extract Liquifier is a natural and organic blend of odorless and flavorless terpenes. It does not contain PG, VG, PEG, MCT, Coconut oil, or any other non-terpene ingredient.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As it is human nature to fill in blank information spots with our best uneducated guesses, may I request that True Terpene’s designated representative please answer the following questions to forestall that guessing??[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1.0 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]What have you done to investigate this disparity?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2.0 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]What did you find as the cause?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3.0 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]What have you done to correct the problem?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4.0 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Have you issued a recall?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5.0 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Have you offered to accept returns and issue refunds?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Kudos and accolades to EN the tenacious whistle blower, and to the selfless analytical lab providing their services pro bono, as well as our doctorial professional doing the same (ya’ll know who you are). [/FONT]

 

[AgentPothead]

We don't deserve somebody as good as you Gray Wolf. Thank you for everything you have done and continue to do.

 

[Future4200]

Incase TT is willfully ignoring this thread, I forwarded them GreyWolfs questions

 

[gh0stm0de]

Many thanks to GW and the others who have spent their time and efforts contributing positively to a fruitful conclusion of this thread. Also, regardless of his identity or motives, thanks to EN for bringing this issue to the public.

According to TT, they are following closely. Ordered some terps and asked about it. They were clearly familiar with these posts (here, reddit, future) and denied the mineral oil claim and mentioned that they were working to identify EN but were confident that they knew who he was. Yet no meaningful commentary directed to properly address this accusation.

One important note for anyone still using TT for terps. Their new line that they refer to as "infused" contains non-terpene ingredients. They declined to specify further.

FWIW, have had very positive experiences with Abstraxx.

Caveat emptor.

 

[zanog]

American country western singer.
She had a famous song "stand by your man"

"You'll have bad times
And he'll have good times,
Doin' things that you don't understand
But if you love him you'll forgive him"

Basically means no matter what happens with TT, Future is going to stand by TT and support them.

Wasn't really funny first time. Definitely ain't funny now that I had to explain.

I see, thanks for the explanation.

Imagine a real life situation: you have 2 people standing front of you, one you have never seen and another you know and had no bad experience with, the one you "friendly with" is the accused party claiming innocence... most people will stand with their "friend" until there is no proof against him/her.

I asked already, and still what facts supporting that Future is complicit? If there are, are there any after the proof?

Oh, and think about how would any of your friends feel if you let others accuse him without any proof?

And actually I think "good life gang" has a bad ring to it, the word gang by itself and has good life in front, meaning you pursue that in financial sense above all else. I get it it has this rap vibe, but for most people will sound untrustworthy I think. I'm willing to bet (which is rare) that the name makes the perception of Future worse for many people even unconsciously.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I see, thanks for the explanation.

Imagine a real life situation: you have 2 people standing front of you, one you have never seen and another you know and had no bad experience with, the one you "friendly with" is the accused party claiming innocence... most people will stand with their "friend" until there is no proof against him/her.

I asked already, and still what facts supporting that Future is complicit? If there are, are there any after the proof?

Oh, and think about how would any of your friends feel if you let others accuse him without any proof?

And actually I think "good life gang" has a bad ring to it, the word gang by itself and has good life in front, meaning you pursue that in financial sense above all else. I get it it has this rap vibe, but for most people will sound untrustworthy I think. I'm willing to bet (which is rare) that the name makes the perception of Future worse for many people even unconsciously.

What are friends for, if not to stand by you when you are under duress?

What are business associations for, if not support?

What do you do as a friend or business associate, after supporting your brother or sister, and learn that you are among those misled?

I've joined any number of organizations over the years, and none of them did a full audit of my business to see if everything I presented was the truth.

Future mentioned that he entices new membership with enough arranged product discounts to cover the price of admission, but the principle reason most folks join professional organizations, is to meet and interface with other folks in the industry, so as to learn from them and stay abreast.

Like any group, the onus is on us as members to sort the bs from the gems, as members have different levels of openness and truthfulness.

I can't comment on names, and in American vernacular, gang doesn't automatically conjure up a cabal. We may go out with the gang (of soccer moms and dads) for pizza.

As far as "Good Life", Buddha said life was meant to be lived joyously, and he wasn't talking about money.

 

[CannaRed]

I guess im just making fun. It went from something like "I'll tar and feather" to something like "maybe we'll hold a vote".

CannaRed out

 

[zanog]

I can't comment on names, and in American vernacular, gang doesn't automatically conjure up a cabal. We may go out with the gang (of soccer moms and dads) for pizza.

As far as "Good Life", Buddha said life was meant to be lived joyously, and he wasn't talking about money.

I was talking about perception, and you should make a poll!

Of course I know of gang and it's uses. But think about this sentence: "my son joined a gang" for example, hearing it how probable is the positive meaning of gang? It works subconsciously, and if the "gang" delivered the bad modifier for the good life... Proven fact that first impressions are basis for decisions by most people, even thou I'm not one of them, I see it all the time. Companies rebrand themselves, instead of trying to fix reputation, so it must be easier, don't you think?

I'm open to debate about the effect of names in marketing.

Finally, legalization happened where you live, I'm sure people would like to see scientist in lab coat and glasses holing a vial in connection with weed, not outlaw sounding things like gang.

I might be wrong, I 'd be curious what the poll's result would be.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I guess im just making fun. It went from something like "I'll tar and feather" to something like "maybe we'll hold a vote".

CannaRed out

Everyone present are big boys and if they can't defend themselves against an occasional gang bang, I'm thinking they should stay off of forums.

I also think it is fair to say that this was a learning experience for all involved, so actions may be a better measure.

Future sending out samples, and touring TT's facility for a dog and pony show of their QC system, seems a logical step.

When the 3rd party test results (mine) were presented, Future immediately removed TT from membership by fiat, not by member vote.

I'm not a member of the GLG, so am not privy to the details, but second hand I understand TT wasn't treated kindly by the membership, for whom it was ostensibly also a learning experience.