Thoughts on a new room design, input pls.

[DaveTheNewbie]

wow this forum is getting busy, i got pushed into the second page in 1 week.

well its that time of the month again and i just spent 1.5 hours moving potting and plumbing plants, then 3.5 hours trimming.

Its the new strain agent orange, so im interested to see what it yields. its also the last run with perlite in the medium, and again 2 of the 4 pots were bone dry inside. you can tell when trimming which ones were dry and which wernt.

I also went from 600w to 900w 5 weeks in, so its 4 weeks at 600w and 4 weeks at 900w. No idea if you calculate GPW at 600 750 or 900 for that.

so the first thing i notice is that i need a new rack. the picture doesnt do it justice, its totally overfull. i couldnt fit any more hanging and i started piling it on top.

here is last runs rack dry, pulled 22 ounces from that.

you can see this run has way more stalks, way longer branches, but not so heavy buds. i really want to pull at least 2 pounds here, but im not sure if thats going to happen.

The AO stalks are very rubbery and bendy : great for ScrOG, and its supposed to be a great yielder, but i fear this one is a dud. still only time will tell what the final numbers are.

EDIT : and while i was in the room : here is the Querkle at 4 weeks flower and doing very well with pure coco medium and constant water

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

well its fucking hot over here : 40 degrees (104 in the backwards old style)
the harvest has pretty much dried and ive cut it off the stalk.
weighed in at a little over 34 ounces. I doubt i will loose much more weight but im going to cure it a few days to make sure its dry all the way through.

the AO is a bitch to harvest, lots of tiny fluffy larfy shit. but the weight seems there, and theres an amazing amount of orange colour in the buds, almost like they are on fire already. over 2 pounds off of 900w light, and still with the shitty blumat problems and dry pots due to perlite in the mix.

i fully expect way bigger numbers from now on with a solid growing environment

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

the harvest has pretty much dried and ive cut it off the stalk.
weighed in at a little over 34 ounces. I doubt i will loose much more weight but im going to cure it a few days to make sure its dry all the way through.

well it wasnt dry, just dry to touch on the outside. After fully drying it im down to 28 ounces, which is below the 2 pounds i was after. Im not suprised really looking at the AO plant, it just didnt have the weight i wanted, so i shouldnt be suprised. It works out to 0.88 GPW, and its still over 1 pound per light.

 

[village green]

I could never find a good enough reason to justify waiting.....trim that shit fresh.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

I could never find a good enough reason to justify waiting.....trim that shit fresh.

theres many old heads talk about leaving it on the stalk to dry, curing over time, slow dry etc etc
and yet many people just throw the plant thru a machine to trim, then stick in on drying racks ... seems easier and it couldnt be a shit method if so many people do it.

next time.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

well the more i think about it, and the more i read, the more i think i should go back to a single light per donut, and do a pair of 4 plant donuts like i started off with. I dont think blasting the bottom of the plant as hard as the top with my 3 light stack is paying off.

does anyone else have an opinion on this ?

 

[hotboxes]

I am waiting on the rest of my order to get here then I am going to start a 4 plant PPK around a 600hps and a 400mh for the dual spectrum. pretty much the same set up as you but I only have a 4x4x6.5' tent to flower in but plan on getting another whole tent and lights ect. for a flipflop especially right now I have great outside temps for sucking in cold winter air. Christmas really threw a wrench into getting everything I need on a budget as well as shipping takes for ever. But should be up an running with in the next cpl weeks I have some Jedi Kush seedlings along with a cpl 91 chem and a lonely sour D. Hopefully I can get it dialed as well as I had my last flower chamber. we will only see I guess. On that note thats all It is Dave figuring out your system and getting it Dialed and once you do the numbers will fall into place you'll see.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

well the more i think about it, and the more i read, the more i think i should go back to a single light per donut, and do a pair of 4 plant donuts like i started off with. I dont think blasting the bottom of the plant as hard as the top with my 3 light stack is paying off.

does anyone else have an opinion on this ?

bump the question : does anyone have an opinion or experience on this ?

 

[DHF]

Sorry I missed the question Dave but I`d haveta say go backta single bulbs and multiple doughnuts ftw.....Reason bein.....Hell.....

When I ran krusty buckets my plants were 7' off the floor and 5' in diameter and STILL only had the bare bulbs hung with the socket even with the tops of the plants and the bulbs were only in the top 1/3`s of the plants....so......that said........

IME......stacked bulbs are for stacked levels of plants...period........not to say yas don`t see folks droppin bare bulbs down further with bigger plants , but once all sucker branches and flarfy bullshit`s removed , then all laterals are opened up and tied off for airflow and lumen penetration/absorption......anyways.......

Hope that helps......DHF............

 

[420ish]

i like the 2 bulb stacks.makes the trimming and pruning for less larf not as critical.not as efficient as a 1 bulb donut,but easier to achieve good numbers and quality with less larf.

 

[DHF]

i like the 2 bulb stacks.makes the trimming and pruning for less larf not as critical.not as efficient as a 1 bulb donut,but easier to achieve good numbers and quality with less larf.

If dominant lateral limbs and colas are established early on before end of stretch by getting rid of all sucker branches and flarfy bullshit that`ll never do anything productive till end of cycle , then .......

As long as everything that`s not green is covered in reflectix or the equivalent thereof , there'll be no larf once all leaves and other bullshit is stripped gradually once the plants are in full swellage mode.......that said......

Flower Farmer`s pics make a strong statement for single bulb multiple doughnut setups , and his lights were dimmed down on the ballasts while he was gone for 2 weeks and that shit still blew up with dialed blumats ........anyways.......

I`m just sayin.........

Many ways ta skin a mule.....Good luck and.....

Peace....DHF..........

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

im kinda wondering if the 3 bulbs is putting out too much light. its a gut feel.

when i put the plants into flower they have massive leaves, and lots of them. A couple of weeks in the flower room and all thats left is small leaves everywhere. its like the big leaves cant handle that much light. And i called myself dave the larf newbie earlier cause that seems to be all i can make (even if its decent amounts of quality larf)

the theory was more light less plants = more yield less problems, but its not seeming to work like that, at least not in a linear way. I will pull a couple more yields with the 3 light column cause im still trying a few different things (the 4 plants 3 lights in 7 gal smartpots with 2 blumats per smartpot is looking good so far) and i suspect that once i had settled down on the best light layout for me then i will move to PPKs maybe (not going there till i am confident that im not going to change things around again)

Plus its a heatwave for 3 months of the year where i am and 3 lights in that size tent is just too much heat. Its been over 100 degrees for the last 5 days without a break and even with a big extraction fan its killing the plants in there. Aircon just isnt in the picture right now.

maybe i will go 2 lights in a colum with 4 plants, maybe 2 donuts with a light each. The third lights gotta go tho

Flower Farmer`s pics make a strong statement for single bulb multiple doughnut setups , and his lights were dimmed down on the ballasts while he was gone for 2 weeks and that shit still blew up with dialed blumats

FF in veg :

Me in veg :

in veg we are pretty similar.

FF in deep flower :

Me in deep flower :

His buds are nice and chunky, mine are wispy with masses of tiny leaves everywhere

 

[DHF]

Each geographic environment is to be dealt with to produce optimum results........

Dave........Too many lumens and heat causes scorching and light bleaching but yet you`ve not experienced any of this ?........and......Big leaves not being produced once in the bloom room ?.....

Sounds like a lack of humidity and increased transpiration issue to me , but X can be anything......70% RH is needed till end of stretch if possible , and then 50% till end of cycle..

50 watts per sq ft with all environment dialed will make yas happy......any more and environmental issues come more into play with the increased heat.....anyways....

Good luck....DHF............

Edit:......Bro....That can be entirely strain dependent on how your nugs stack up against what FF`s are doin if all things are equal ......

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Each geographic environment is to be dealt with to produce optimum results........

very true. when i used to run horizontal in the same room i got huge buds, huge leaves, overall way less weight. completely different feel of plant tho.

Dave........Too many lumens and heat causes scorching and light bleaching but yet you`ve not experienced any of this ?........and......Big leaves not being produced once in the bloom room ?.....

no bleaching, no scorching, but many burnt tips as if nute burn of a sort .... with an EC of 1.3 going in im hoping its not that. but with my lack of experience with blumats anythings possible. I feel like i want to flush each pot with plain water but thats tricky without any waste system, i would just flood the floor.

Sounds like a lack of humidity and increased transpiration issue to me , but X can be anything......70% RH is needed till end of stretch if possible , and then 50% till end of cycle..

its not a lack of humidity, its been so humid in that room due to the heat making the plants work that i CANT dry my nugs in there. they just wont dry. I ended up drying them all in another room that doesnt have carbon filters. stank up the whole house.

50 watts per sq ft with all environment dialed will make yas happy......any more and environmental issues come more into play with the increased heat.....anyways....

this is a much more intelligent way of saying what im thinking ... less is more somedays.

Edit:......Bro....That can be entirely strain dependent on how your nugs stack up against what FF`s are doin if all things are equal ......

true this is the first time i have run this strain, but the last one had similar issues and ive run that many times, both horizontal and vert.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I run a strain called sun orange. It is a agent orange cross and does what you have stated. It produces a lot of larf and stretches to beat hell. I have to trim the crap out of it to get it to yield decent bud. I have been running it for a year now and have produced a lot of small bud. What I am finding is that if I let the branches hang in toward the light and trim everything 6 inches in from the tips it produces better bud. Anything not in direct light turns to crap and has to go.

I think your biggest problem is not the lights it is the strain. You need a strain that produces bigger buds that are naturally more dense.

I have run a single 1k bulb and a double stacked 1k and 600 set up. The double stacked bulb more than made up for the extra bulb. I have increase in yield of about 25-30%. This could be that I also have been getting better as I go though.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Thanks for the thoughts itchy bob.

I run a strain called sun orange. It is a agent orange cross and does what you have stated. It produces a lot of larf and stretches to beat hell. I have to trim the crap out of it to get it to yield decent bud. I have been running it for a year now and have produced a lot of small bud. What I am finding is that if I let the branches hang in toward the light and trim everything 6 inches in from the tips it produces better bud. Anything not in direct light turns to crap and has to go.

well i sure can try that style of chopping. Infact it makes sense to me.

I think your biggest problem is not the lights it is the strain. You need a strain that produces bigger buds that are naturally more dense.

ive noticed this in a couple of different strains recently so while what you say is true (AO does lean that way) its also happening to querkle which is a short stout slow vegging indica beast.

I have run a single 1k bulb and a double stacked 1k and 600 set up. The double stacked bulb more than made up for the extra bulb. I have increase in yield of about 25-30%. This could be that I also have been getting better as I go though.

if you added 60% more light and 60% more electricity and only got a 25-30% better yield then its actually not working as well. This seems in line with what im experiencing. Its not the linear growth of add more light and get more results that i was hoping for.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

When I stated 25-30% more that was after doubling my out put with less than double the light. So in reality it was more. I went from 24-28 from 1k to 66-68 for 1.6k.

When I run a short stocky plant I force it to stretch in veg. I do this by keeping the light way above it. This will help me reduce the amount of plant that will have to be removed because of shading. Just before I flip the lights I move the light down to fill it in some. AK-47 is one plant I do this with to good effect. If I don't this plant will get mold issues because it is to dense as well as produce a bunch of larf. Your Querkle sounds like this strategy may help it.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

When I stated 25-30% more that was after doubling my out put with less than double the light. So in reality it was more. I went from 24-28 from 1k to 66-68 for 1.6k.

ok that sort of increase is known as a shitload in metric measurements.

When I run a short stocky plant I force it to stretch in veg. I do this by keeping the light way above it. This will help me reduce the amount of plant that will have to be removed because of shading. Just before I flip the lights I move the light down to fill it in some. AK-47 is one plant I do this with to good effect. If I don't this plant will get mold issues because it is to dense as well as produce a bunch of larf. Your Querkle sounds like this strategy may help it.

interesting

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

the other thought i just had is that maybe the 3 gal pots just arent big enough for a 6 foot high plant? maybe its just out of coco to settle into and thats whats causing things to "stunt" for lack of a better word. The current plants in 7 gals seem immune to the problem so far, time will tell.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

the other thought i just had is that maybe the 3 gal pots just arent big enough for a 6 foot high plant? maybe its just out of coco to settle into and thats whats causing things to "stunt" for lack of a better word. The current plants in 7 gals seem immune to the problem so far, time will tell.

I can not comment on the pot size as I have not looked into it enough. What I can say is that the above numbers were pulled from 5 gallon pots watered once per day with about 5 gallons per 6 plants.

I should also mention these are 6.5-7.5 foot tall plants.