Water alone will do that....
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread
- Thread starter growingcrazy
- Start date
Water alone will do that....
M
moose eater
Thanks. Though I hadn't noted this change before with simple spraying of H2O.
I've been growing on a serious basis for about 24 years now, where seeking a quality end-product is concerned. Using 400 watt hps indoors in similar set-up, I was breaking the 1.25- near 1.5 gram/watt threshold fairly regularly.
Back then I was using a more simple organic soilless mix, feeding with bat guano teas, but still incorporating kelp, though aside from mild/controlled doses of kelp meal in the mixes, I was using water soluble product by Maxi Crop, and hydrating that myself into concentrate. (*Note, as stated numerous times elsewhere, I've noted that raw kelp meal in general has slipped downward in K content, and increased in salt content over that last 2-1/2 decades. Why? I have no idea, other than guesses that revolve around over-harvesting and changes to general ocean conditions, and/or specific coastlines).
Per our past (brief) discussions of that history, back in that period, I was often getting 18" colas that glued themselves to drying surfaces, and sounded like peeling tape from cardboard when turning them. Then the concentration of resin declined a bit, though production stayed relatively strong, eventually sending me off into this specific quest; to serve up the best food and soil regimen, and to return to the stickiest colas I'd seen, with exceptional production..
Before the immediately preceding 24 years, it was simply planting a seed, and watching vegetative cannabis grow, starting in about 1972.
But in the mid-90s I read 'The Closet Cultivator,' and progressed from there, through a variety of reading materials, not all of which remained as accurate over time.
That said, I lack a serious hard-sciences background.
I'm willing to remove the Fishy Peat from the mix, bolster its absence with more BX Pro Mix, cut the raw dried kelp meal and seek another source of mild K with micros that it had provided, sans the sodium, and try another sample.
At the moment, I'm thinking that to salvage the remaining unused mix I have, I can make up 3-4 more batches of the modified mix with changes I just described, mix them with the suspect mix we're currently discussing, to dilute the problems, or I can discard the suspect mix altogether, and whip up the modified mix as described.
The current end goal for me, aside from furthering my understanding, isn't just to rectify the plants currently in this mix, but to modify what I'm doing in general, to the point that it provides a template for me to reliably use in future applications.
Apologies if I'm drowning anyone in elementary issues, or needlessly cluttering this thread. That is not my intention.
I've been growing on a serious basis for about 24 years now, where seeking a quality end-product is concerned. Using 400 watt hps indoors in similar set-up, I was breaking the 1.25- near 1.5 gram/watt threshold fairly regularly.
Back then I was using a more simple organic soilless mix, feeding with bat guano teas, but still incorporating kelp, though aside from mild/controlled doses of kelp meal in the mixes, I was using water soluble product by Maxi Crop, and hydrating that myself into concentrate. (*Note, as stated numerous times elsewhere, I've noted that raw kelp meal in general has slipped downward in K content, and increased in salt content over that last 2-1/2 decades. Why? I have no idea, other than guesses that revolve around over-harvesting and changes to general ocean conditions, and/or specific coastlines).
Per our past (brief) discussions of that history, back in that period, I was often getting 18" colas that glued themselves to drying surfaces, and sounded like peeling tape from cardboard when turning them. Then the concentration of resin declined a bit, though production stayed relatively strong, eventually sending me off into this specific quest; to serve up the best food and soil regimen, and to return to the stickiest colas I'd seen, with exceptional production..
Before the immediately preceding 24 years, it was simply planting a seed, and watching vegetative cannabis grow, starting in about 1972.
But in the mid-90s I read 'The Closet Cultivator,' and progressed from there, through a variety of reading materials, not all of which remained as accurate over time.
That said, I lack a serious hard-sciences background.
I'm willing to remove the Fishy Peat from the mix, bolster its absence with more BX Pro Mix, cut the raw dried kelp meal and seek another source of mild K with micros that it had provided, sans the sodium, and try another sample.
At the moment, I'm thinking that to salvage the remaining unused mix I have, I can make up 3-4 more batches of the modified mix with changes I just described, mix them with the suspect mix we're currently discussing, to dilute the problems, or I can discard the suspect mix altogether, and whip up the modified mix as described.
The current end goal for me, aside from furthering my understanding, isn't just to rectify the plants currently in this mix, but to modify what I'm doing in general, to the point that it provides a template for me to reliably use in future applications.
Apologies if I'm drowning anyone in elementary issues, or needlessly cluttering this thread. That is not my intention.
Your dilemma is this. To get the Ca you chose into the plant you need to let that soil dry out. But as you do that the Na will become more of a problem.
You could get soluble gypsum and water it in. Or you could get Ca directly into the plant with Foliar Albion, biomin or baicor
You could also spray foliage k to try to block uptake of Ana
In the long run you have got to focus getting more highly soluble sources of Ca and P in the mix. The carbonate sources of Ca are gonna be almost unavailable in a single cycle. And you won’t have time to build a fungal network to free up P
Just to understand the concept I would recommend buying a bale of Promix or Sunshine Mix 4. Chuck in 6 lbs of gypsum and 6 lbs of steamed bone meal (I would also get some nectar for the gods liquid bone meal to feed along the way).
If you are in then we can choose the fertilizer part where we can introduce that diversity thing if you want. It will be a 1-2-1 or even 1-3-1 thing imo
Anyways my opinion
Then once you see the basics you can change things up while sticking to the ratios
You could get soluble gypsum and water it in. Or you could get Ca directly into the plant with Foliar Albion, biomin or baicor
You could also spray foliage k to try to block uptake of Ana
In the long run you have got to focus getting more highly soluble sources of Ca and P in the mix. The carbonate sources of Ca are gonna be almost unavailable in a single cycle. And you won’t have time to build a fungal network to free up P
Just to understand the concept I would recommend buying a bale of Promix or Sunshine Mix 4. Chuck in 6 lbs of gypsum and 6 lbs of steamed bone meal (I would also get some nectar for the gods liquid bone meal to feed along the way).
If you are in then we can choose the fertilizer part where we can introduce that diversity thing if you want. It will be a 1-2-1 or even 1-3-1 thing imo
Anyways my opinion
Then once you see the basics you can change things up while sticking to the ratios
M
moose eater
I tried to stick with the original regimen for some time; as stated, changes in organic amendments and the new well put an end to that being as productive as it had been. The production remained good, but the resin concentration had slipped.
I wasn't attempting to be snarky, but to give a background on where I'm coming from..
If I could return to the organic amendments of 20 years prior, and the same water quality, I'd be skating.
I read your post # 570, Jidoka. The foliar spray of K seemed to me to be counter-intuitive, with K already so prominent in the mix. Can you explain how this doesn't compound my already skewed circumstances?
Slow had recommended some time back a ratio of 1.2-2-1 in the mix, as an organic, primarily water-only situation, and I had been attempting to match that, albeit relying on stated contents, as opposed to reality.
It sounds from your post# 570 as though it is safe at this point to water in gypsum as a top-dressing. Is that correct?
Thank you.
I wasn't attempting to be snarky, but to give a background on where I'm coming from..
If I could return to the organic amendments of 20 years prior, and the same water quality, I'd be skating.
I read your post # 570, Jidoka. The foliar spray of K seemed to me to be counter-intuitive, with K already so prominent in the mix. Can you explain how this doesn't compound my already skewed circumstances?
Slow had recommended some time back a ratio of 1.2-2-1 in the mix, as an organic, primarily water-only situation, and I had been attempting to match that, albeit relying on stated contents, as opposed to reality.
It sounds from your post# 570 as though it is safe at this point to water in gypsum as a top-dressing. Is that correct?
Thank you.
M
moose eater
Thank you.
Here’s the water-extraction test. Far more depressing than the Mehlich III acid-extraction results, though more informative in a pragmatic way, as well.
Not that others are as attached to, or as impacted by these numbers (nor should they be), taking it much more personally on this end, but the following numbers might lead to a local shortage on Kleenex here.
Ph 6.4
Soluble salts = 2686 ppm
Nitrate NO3-N = 77.3 ppm
Ammonium NH4-N = 10.5 ppm
Phosphorous = 1.19 ppm
Calcium = 667.92 ppm
Magnesium = 156.24 ppm
Potassium = 179.01 ppm
Sodium = 186.01 ppm
Sulfur as Sulfate = 1415.99 ppm
Boron = 1.15 ppm
Iron = 0.82 ppm
Manganese = 1.89 ppm
Copper = 0.08 ppm
Zinc = 1.01 ppm
Aluminum = 0.66 ppm
Molybdenum = < 0.05 ppm
Soluble Salts = mmhos/cm = 640 ppm
Here’s the water-extraction test. Far more depressing than the Mehlich III acid-extraction results, though more informative in a pragmatic way, as well.
Not that others are as attached to, or as impacted by these numbers (nor should they be), taking it much more personally on this end, but the following numbers might lead to a local shortage on Kleenex here.
Ph 6.4
Soluble salts = 2686 ppm
Nitrate NO3-N = 77.3 ppm
Ammonium NH4-N = 10.5 ppm
Phosphorous = 1.19 ppm
Calcium = 667.92 ppm
Magnesium = 156.24 ppm
Potassium = 179.01 ppm
Sodium = 186.01 ppm
Sulfur as Sulfate = 1415.99 ppm
Boron = 1.15 ppm
Iron = 0.82 ppm
Manganese = 1.89 ppm
Copper = 0.08 ppm
Zinc = 1.01 ppm
Aluminum = 0.66 ppm
Molybdenum = < 0.05 ppm
Soluble Salts = mmhos/cm = 640 ppm
M
moose eater
Again, the above numbers were AFTER the mix had sat here moist for ~10 days, then drying at the mid-way point for another ~10 days. So not a fresh-out-of-the-mixer result.
Yet, using the numbers as stated on the containers of organic amendments, as represented in the previously posted convoluted mix, this is WAY off.
Yet, using the numbers as stated on the containers of organic amendments, as represented in the previously posted convoluted mix, this is WAY off.
M
moose eater
The sulfur is alarming. Where from???
Salts are STILL way up.
And boron is a bit over the top, too.
P, despite the load in there, and there was LOTS of various sources put in, is nearly anorexic!!
(*Reaching for another Kleenex....)
Salts are STILL way up.
And boron is a bit over the top, too.
P, despite the load in there, and there was LOTS of various sources put in, is nearly anorexic!!
(*Reaching for another Kleenex....)
Realize that this is a real crappy procedure. It was made to sell fertilizer.
Roots exude amino and other organic acids that will make P available for the root to pick up P from many sources assuming you have lots of airspace and aren't over watering. You should keep applying P obviously.
Applying K foliarly will definitely help with your excess of Na.
Roots exude amino and other organic acids that will make P available for the root to pick up P from many sources assuming you have lots of airspace and aren't over watering. You should keep applying P obviously.
Applying K foliarly will definitely help with your excess of Na.
M
moose eater
Thanks to both of you, as well as others who have chimed in with helpfulness.
My initial reflex based on the results of both tests was to apply nearly straight P via foliar, allowing for the slight amounts of N, as it is in early phases still of bloom for the former-mothers. And I was prone to not adding ANY K via foliar. (*Thank you for straightening this out).
I need to understand why I'm doing things, and what works how, or I'll be metaphorically partially-blind in many ways for more time than will benefit anyone, especially me.
So for now, working forward with what's been stated; add top-dressing of gypsum to the existing plants (ALL of them) and continue the routine watering as I have, allowing for a slow or elongated leaching.
****Possibly add some triple phosphate (0-45-0) in controlled or limited amount ((?????)****
Foliar spray with K, with perhaps a P supplement or such, and I'll try to forgo any additional N for now. (Less P foliar if triple super phos is used in top-dressing or drench watering).
As far as modification to the mix, before I throw my notes and such through a window really hard (Low E Argon triple-pane casement windows being expensive and all);
-Increase gypsum by 1 to 1-1/2 cups to start.
-I'm leaning toward nixing the oyster shell flour, & upping the 96% ca/1.5% mg garden lime in replacement at what ever ratio achieves the ph buffering I had/have, looking to remain near 6.4 to 6.7 ph.
-decreasing the bone meal a bit and replacing it with more (perhaps 3 x's as much) 0-7-0 bat guano and/or 50% more 0-11-0 seabird guano than is being replaced in bone meal (believing the guanos to be more available in less time than the steamed bone meal??).
-nixing the Fishy Peat, and replacing it with additional BX Pro-Mix.
-replacing the Kelp meal with something more readily available that lacks the salinity, and achieves a comparable amount of K. Potash in seriously restricted amount?
-decreasing the boron/borax by about 1/3, to 2/3 of its current measurement; from .7 grams to ~.5 grams.(??)
All in favor say 'Aye.' ;^>)
Also, I can further reduce the zeolite with more pumice, with part of the goal being to maintain the aeration properties, & secondarily, to maintain a 16.5 gallon aggregate in this whole affair, with the nutrient numbers being the primary goal/focus.
I still have no idea where all of that sulfur is coming from? Guanos? Naturally occurring in peat bogs? Karma?
My initial reflex based on the results of both tests was to apply nearly straight P via foliar, allowing for the slight amounts of N, as it is in early phases still of bloom for the former-mothers. And I was prone to not adding ANY K via foliar. (*Thank you for straightening this out).
I need to understand why I'm doing things, and what works how, or I'll be metaphorically partially-blind in many ways for more time than will benefit anyone, especially me.
So for now, working forward with what's been stated; add top-dressing of gypsum to the existing plants (ALL of them) and continue the routine watering as I have, allowing for a slow or elongated leaching.
****Possibly add some triple phosphate (0-45-0) in controlled or limited amount ((?????)****
Foliar spray with K, with perhaps a P supplement or such, and I'll try to forgo any additional N for now. (Less P foliar if triple super phos is used in top-dressing or drench watering).
As far as modification to the mix, before I throw my notes and such through a window really hard (Low E Argon triple-pane casement windows being expensive and all);
-Increase gypsum by 1 to 1-1/2 cups to start.
-I'm leaning toward nixing the oyster shell flour, & upping the 96% ca/1.5% mg garden lime in replacement at what ever ratio achieves the ph buffering I had/have, looking to remain near 6.4 to 6.7 ph.
-decreasing the bone meal a bit and replacing it with more (perhaps 3 x's as much) 0-7-0 bat guano and/or 50% more 0-11-0 seabird guano than is being replaced in bone meal (believing the guanos to be more available in less time than the steamed bone meal??).
-nixing the Fishy Peat, and replacing it with additional BX Pro-Mix.
-replacing the Kelp meal with something more readily available that lacks the salinity, and achieves a comparable amount of K. Potash in seriously restricted amount?
-decreasing the boron/borax by about 1/3, to 2/3 of its current measurement; from .7 grams to ~.5 grams.(??)
All in favor say 'Aye.' ;^>)
Also, I can further reduce the zeolite with more pumice, with part of the goal being to maintain the aeration properties, & secondarily, to maintain a 16.5 gallon aggregate in this whole affair, with the nutrient numbers being the primary goal/focus.
I still have no idea where all of that sulfur is coming from? Guanos? Naturally occurring in peat bogs? Karma?
led05
Chasing The Present
KISS dude.... how would you ever know what’s driving what with all ^ there interacting?
It sounds like you know what you’re doing and may already be aware of this...?
regarding the low K high P. I remember someone here maybe SN saying they got some high p bat guano tested and it was mostly K. (whoever posted it please chime in)
In the past I would add bat guano 0-8-0 or something close to that npk during the transition to flower. My soil test at the end of the season I always have high K, maybe cus the guano. So I haven't used guano this year just steamed bone meal fishbone meal and a little stp for P. I'm looking forward to seeing my soil tests this winter.
I use pelletized seabird guano 12-12-2 at transition and it's great.
M
moose eater
I started working on farms when I was 9 y.o.
Yes, my distrust for commercially available organic amendments, while proven anecdotally to me to be valid, has also likely led to more troubles of other sorts.
Simple math in NPK values has been less than helpful for a while now where mixes have been concerned, even in consideration of variable release times.
There's been an inside joke here for several years now when things were even more problematic; "I gotta' get back to basics."
However, with visibly changing properties in key amendments over time, and the water source changing markedly, 'getting back to basics,' became more difficult than it sounded.
For a time, a number of years ago, I would even drive across the Borough, a good 40+ miles each way, to a public artesian spring on the back-side of the hill my delivered water had came from, theoretically from a shared/common aquifer, and I would truck 50+ gallons of water in jugs at a time. No positive changes to the fermentation of teas to resemble what they had been 18-20 years ago.
I went with RO for a while, with a 33-gallon drum in the basement, adding necessary mineral base. Same outcomes. I ran RO with half untreated well water, 50:50. Same ends.
In other words, it seemed like that magic moment in time when both production and INTENSE resin content had vanished permanently.
Thus I began the effort to tap into folks' knowledge with better hard-sciences background than I had, to try and figure out what had happened to the resin concentration.
1.5 grams/watt is great, but if the resin concentration isn't what that 'magic moment' had once delivered, it was only pretty good, instead of exceptional. I was and am trying to get back to exceptional.
Thanks for the reminder, and for the input.
It'll either come together or it won't, though I get frustrated at times. I'll keep on trying to regain that time and place I stumbled on then.
(*I'm out of rep again, or would vend some your way, but thanks again).
Yes, my distrust for commercially available organic amendments, while proven anecdotally to me to be valid, has also likely led to more troubles of other sorts.
Simple math in NPK values has been less than helpful for a while now where mixes have been concerned, even in consideration of variable release times.
There's been an inside joke here for several years now when things were even more problematic; "I gotta' get back to basics."
However, with visibly changing properties in key amendments over time, and the water source changing markedly, 'getting back to basics,' became more difficult than it sounded.
For a time, a number of years ago, I would even drive across the Borough, a good 40+ miles each way, to a public artesian spring on the back-side of the hill my delivered water had came from, theoretically from a shared/common aquifer, and I would truck 50+ gallons of water in jugs at a time. No positive changes to the fermentation of teas to resemble what they had been 18-20 years ago.
I went with RO for a while, with a 33-gallon drum in the basement, adding necessary mineral base. Same outcomes. I ran RO with half untreated well water, 50:50. Same ends.
In other words, it seemed like that magic moment in time when both production and INTENSE resin content had vanished permanently.
Thus I began the effort to tap into folks' knowledge with better hard-sciences background than I had, to try and figure out what had happened to the resin concentration.
1.5 grams/watt is great, but if the resin concentration isn't what that 'magic moment' had once delivered, it was only pretty good, instead of exceptional. I was and am trying to get back to exceptional.
Thanks for the reminder, and for the input.
It'll either come together or it won't, though I get frustrated at times. I'll keep on trying to regain that time and place I stumbled on then.
(*I'm out of rep again, or would vend some your way, but thanks again).
M
moose eater
THANKS!!
That's some degree of validation for my perceptions.
I went from watching visible frothing microbial activity in High N bat guano teas, to seeing nearly no activity there, aerated or not.
I figure, and have stated, consider how difficult it's been in this country to keep human food supplies, pet food, and children's toys free of things that shouldn't be in them or on them. I doubt too many persons are going to jail or losing sleep when they make a bank deposit relative to incomes from questionable garden amendments.
And I've seen store-bought potting soils that literally killed plants.
I have tested my dolomite years ago after seeing several sources test as straight lime.
At $40/test for soil samples, it'd be nice to be able to afford to test each amendment, but it would be outrageous in cost. And one batch of amendment 'X' may test fine today, but be derived from a new source next week.
At my profile, in the one jpeg copy of a soil analysis report, there are 3 sources of EWCs listed on the data sheet, which I pursued after reading and hearing so much about toxicities in commercially available EWCs.
I was fortunate due to the local soil place that handles my samples splitting the cost for those 3 analyses with me for the testing, as they saw it as an effort that would benefit the public in general, and not just me.
Trust & confidence matters. A LOT!!
That's some degree of validation for my perceptions.
I went from watching visible frothing microbial activity in High N bat guano teas, to seeing nearly no activity there, aerated or not.
I figure, and have stated, consider how difficult it's been in this country to keep human food supplies, pet food, and children's toys free of things that shouldn't be in them or on them. I doubt too many persons are going to jail or losing sleep when they make a bank deposit relative to incomes from questionable garden amendments.
And I've seen store-bought potting soils that literally killed plants.
I have tested my dolomite years ago after seeing several sources test as straight lime.
At $40/test for soil samples, it'd be nice to be able to afford to test each amendment, but it would be outrageous in cost. And one batch of amendment 'X' may test fine today, but be derived from a new source next week.
At my profile, in the one jpeg copy of a soil analysis report, there are 3 sources of EWCs listed on the data sheet, which I pursued after reading and hearing so much about toxicities in commercially available EWCs.
I was fortunate due to the local soil place that handles my samples splitting the cost for those 3 analyses with me for the testing, as they saw it as an effort that would benefit the public in general, and not just me.
Trust & confidence matters. A LOT!!
led05
Chasing The Present
k is everywhere... If you try to consciously avoid it your entire grow and get tested at end you'll still find it there in surprising numbers most likely...
It's the problem with relying on anything(s) too much, soil testing is just one of those things too. The company selling you amendments etc use often the best test results they ever got, if true results at all, then don't get me even started on labs you may/may not be relying on when you send out your samples; your understanding of these results, how you collect, their procedures, limitations and so on...
It's better to look at the plants, let them tell us vs relying on someone's word making money from us.... Take everything into account - especially the free shit....
mho
led05
Chasing The Present
You're in Alaska right? Man, can't you just go and dig up some ground and mix that a little to perhaps make lighter a bit and roll? That's what I'd be doing.... I keep things simple here and get exactly what you describe you used to get back in the olden days, same for all the veggies and fruits I grow but your situation is perplexing as it does seem you know your shit down well..... Leads me back to KISS, even the best chase their tails from time to time with too many variables....
What type of lighting are you using out of curiosity then vs. now if applicable?
M
moose eater
Thank you.
I'm no guru, lack hard-sciences in my background as I didn't trust my ability to succeed at them in that time, and have had basic understandings for a long time.
I am currently using (3) 315s and have a 4th to take the place in the smaller box of my LAST 400 digital system; that conversion was to take place a day or 2 ago, before that, 2 months ago, but we're all a little challenged in my home for energy and forward motion.
Back then I was using older magnetic 400 watt ballasts, interchanging the MH for HPS at each phase, as the ballasts weren't 1 size fits all..
There's lots of loam here and there in this Country up here. Where I am, it's an ancient dry river bed in the hills, not far from an active river bed, and I have silt for 125 vertical feet, with maybe an inch or so of good loam in the woods around my property. (Ask me about my disdain for fine particulate SILT!!!!!) ;^>)
There are folks here, out in the bush, who lack immediate access to commercial grow stores, who for years would make due with loam mixed with rotting willow, aspen, birch, alder and other leaves, and make compost from that, then add available amendments. They did so out of necessity, and we often felt like they were barely getting by, when we had no real idea of the labor-intensive gold mine they were sitting on.
That said, commercially available amendments become a matter of convenience.
But convenience has a cost sometimes, too.
If you look at my posted overall aggregate, add the various components by amounts, keeping track of NPK, there SHOULD have been gobs of P in that mix, and the 11 TBSP of kelp meal should NOT have accounted for that high a reading in salts, despite not knowing how much kelp is in the Fishy Peat.
Such is integrity and reliability in the world of commercially available organic amendments.
When it comes to understanding the science of amino acids, processing of what and how, and how to arrest a botched mix in motion, I'm sitting in the back corner of the classroom with a pointy hat on my head.
Like having just enough compass to get REALLY lost at times.
Thanks for the comments.... and faith.
I'm no guru, lack hard-sciences in my background as I didn't trust my ability to succeed at them in that time, and have had basic understandings for a long time.
I am currently using (3) 315s and have a 4th to take the place in the smaller box of my LAST 400 digital system; that conversion was to take place a day or 2 ago, before that, 2 months ago, but we're all a little challenged in my home for energy and forward motion.
Back then I was using older magnetic 400 watt ballasts, interchanging the MH for HPS at each phase, as the ballasts weren't 1 size fits all..
There's lots of loam here and there in this Country up here. Where I am, it's an ancient dry river bed in the hills, not far from an active river bed, and I have silt for 125 vertical feet, with maybe an inch or so of good loam in the woods around my property. (Ask me about my disdain for fine particulate SILT!!!!!) ;^>)
There are folks here, out in the bush, who lack immediate access to commercial grow stores, who for years would make due with loam mixed with rotting willow, aspen, birch, alder and other leaves, and make compost from that, then add available amendments. They did so out of necessity, and we often felt like they were barely getting by, when we had no real idea of the labor-intensive gold mine they were sitting on.
That said, commercially available amendments become a matter of convenience.
But convenience has a cost sometimes, too.
If you look at my posted overall aggregate, add the various components by amounts, keeping track of NPK, there SHOULD have been gobs of P in that mix, and the 11 TBSP of kelp meal should NOT have accounted for that high a reading in salts, despite not knowing how much kelp is in the Fishy Peat.
Such is integrity and reliability in the world of commercially available organic amendments.
When it comes to understanding the science of amino acids, processing of what and how, and how to arrest a botched mix in motion, I'm sitting in the back corner of the classroom with a pointy hat on my head.
Like having just enough compass to get REALLY lost at times.
Thanks for the comments.... and faith.
led05
Chasing The Present
Try this. Get a bale of pro-mix 3.8CF, whatever mix of theirs you fancy. Get a cheap dry organic pre-mix complete fertilizer - say 5-10-5 or something like that, Ca and some micros too in it, whatever one you like, preferably local one from up there and mix in a few large shovels of your favorite local rich hummus, add some aeration if you feel the need, that's your entire base soil mix, everything. If you have some SRP, add some too.
Run that next to your well balanced, although incredibly complex mixture, (especially for such a small total amount of material created in the end) and let us know how things turn out...
Please water properly for each respective mixture, pulse and so on... Do you add slurries or any nutes when watering? I missed if you tested your water recently?
If equal then you have a simple choice moving forward with much less inputs, costs and confusion.... My guess it outperforms all that other stuff you've been adding....
If nothing else, it'll show you somethings............ Throw in a plant or two (say pepper or tomato) you could give less shits about and see what happens also....
M
moose eater
Gotta' run, so a more thorough reply later, but no, I haven't tested well water in 18-20 years, and want to do a thorough testing soon, but the broad and varied testing I want to do will likely run between $500 and $700.
I ph my H2O with citric acid to about a 6.7 (+/-). At the tap it's 7-7.1 as a rule. Not too bad, really.
I use a large percentage of aerating components now, after having had issues in damp weather with high humidity; rice hulls, perlite, vermiculite, pumice, zeolite, etc.
I have a novice commercial flower farmer uphill from me, and am curious as to whether or not there's things in my aquifer here that may be coming from that end, though these variances began long before he quit his former occupation to farm flowers. I also understand he's a fan of Round-Up... :^(
I may bite the bullet and do the H2O testing sooner than I intended at this point. Aquifers change on their own over time, just as river braids carve new channels into new turf and mineral deposits.
I rarely use slurries, only recently began contemplating top-dressing, with the exception of what I'm doing now; trying to pull a crop out of the proverbial fire in a suspect mix, mid-stream. (*Just administered a relatively potent top-dressing an hour ago; will check in on them when I return).
"Want to see me pull a rabbit out of my hat?" "Yah, me too." ;^>)
I believe Jidoka had also advised what you've laid out in re. to the mixing of a bale of Pro-Mix (BX in my case).
The gross aggregate is smaller in my mixing list, only because I have tried to reduce the amounts I put into a mixer at one time, in order to have a thoroughly mixed end product. Typically in the end, I'm looking at (for a full throw) about 7 or 8 mixes to do a complete set, with new mothers from cuttings, and plants in bloom to full capacity.
I ph my H2O with citric acid to about a 6.7 (+/-). At the tap it's 7-7.1 as a rule. Not too bad, really.
I use a large percentage of aerating components now, after having had issues in damp weather with high humidity; rice hulls, perlite, vermiculite, pumice, zeolite, etc.
I have a novice commercial flower farmer uphill from me, and am curious as to whether or not there's things in my aquifer here that may be coming from that end, though these variances began long before he quit his former occupation to farm flowers. I also understand he's a fan of Round-Up... :^(
I may bite the bullet and do the H2O testing sooner than I intended at this point. Aquifers change on their own over time, just as river braids carve new channels into new turf and mineral deposits.
I rarely use slurries, only recently began contemplating top-dressing, with the exception of what I'm doing now; trying to pull a crop out of the proverbial fire in a suspect mix, mid-stream. (*Just administered a relatively potent top-dressing an hour ago; will check in on them when I return).
"Want to see me pull a rabbit out of my hat?" "Yah, me too." ;^>)
I believe Jidoka had also advised what you've laid out in re. to the mixing of a bale of Pro-Mix (BX in my case).
The gross aggregate is smaller in my mixing list, only because I have tried to reduce the amounts I put into a mixer at one time, in order to have a thoroughly mixed end product. Typically in the end, I'm looking at (for a full throw) about 7 or 8 mixes to do a complete set, with new mothers from cuttings, and plants in bloom to full capacity.
