The Haze discussion thread

[bigherb]

Isn't saying you need 100k seeds and only 40 are worth using the same as saying the entire line is junk?

100,000 plants seems a bit extreme, I'm sure even with 1000 you could find a few worth keeping around.

That’s the difference with breeders and the Younger generation these days .

He didn’t say anything you said above . Nothing is needed , the worth is not measured by a number . But the larger the numbers of selecting the very best of the best over and over to work the line to it’s full potential, Sounds like a good plan to me


1luvbigherb

 

[JohnnyChicago]

100,000 plants seems a bit extreme, I'm sure even with 1000 you could find a few worth keeping around.

That's what he will be doing, select the very best plant out of 1000 or 2000 plants. He wants 40, so he will need 40k-80k plants from his 100k seeds
1000 plants is what you should use to preserve the Haze I guess Sam wrote in Bigherbs OHaze thread.

 

[willydread]

10000 plants of original haze...
: headbange:

 

[Lesnah]

At that point, Haze should be considered almost Landrace status...I already see it as an heirloom.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

At that point, Haze should be considered almost Landrace status...I already see it as an heirloom.

Several generations growing somewhere is what makes a landrace. Grow a field and keep the best for 20, or better 100 years.

 

[Donald Mallard]

At that point, Haze should be considered almost Landrace status...I already see it as an heirloom.

im not sure i understand ,

its been removed from its natural environment and hybridized already ,

not sure how it can then it becomes a landrace ...



maybe you got your terminology mixed up there .. ??

 

[Donald Mallard]

A landrace is a domesticated, locally adapted, traditional variety of a species of animal or plant that has developed over time, through adaptation to its natural and cultural environment of agriculture and pastoralism, and due to isolation from other populations of the species.

 

[TakenByTheSky]

That’s the difference with breeders and the Younger generation these days .

He didn’t say anything you said above . Nothing is needed , the worth is not measured by a number . But the larger the numbers of selecting the very best of the best over and over to work the line to it’s full potential, Sounds like a good plan to me


1luvbigherb

No one does it because it's not economically feasible to grow a field full of plants to make a strain of any variety much less a long flowering sativa that only a very small percentage of growers would take interest in and of that small percentage a fraction of them will actually buy the seeds.

How many strains do you think are reaching $100k in seed sales alone? Who is going to invest all that money in time, labor, nutrients etc... To sell maybe $10000 worth of seeds? Old skool classics excluded, because I'm sure the sales of strains like white widow, NL, skunk etc...could be counted in the millions over the decades they've been sold, pure haze is a different story because of what it takes to grow it.

Seedsman offered original haze for years and discontinued it, because my guess is it wasn't a hot seller and their efforts would better spent elsewhere.

Pot users have an incredibly short memory and the turn over in interest on a strain is rapid. It's all flash in the pan hype sales, then the next week a new clone is out and no one even wants the other shit. We've seen it with cookies and gg4. I was asking about gg4 at a canna trade show and someone told me that gg4 is an "old skool cut" and said no one wants it LMAO that's where we're at.

We're all spoiled by choice, there is thousands of seed strains available and a thousand seed makers selling them, it's not like back in the 80s or 90s where only a handful of dutch seed companies were supplying the world. The gross total of seed revenue is spread out much wider and competition is higher.

 

[Lesnah]

Yea you guys right, I stand corrected...

It would have to been grown outside in the tropics multiple years with minimal input.

If only I had the funds to do thousands of hazes say in the Caribbean...I'm sure it's being done in Jamaica as we speak

 

[Donald Mallard]

Yea you guys right, I stand corrected...

It would have to been grown outside in the tropics multiple years with minimal input.

If only I had the funds to do thousands of hazes say in the Caribbean...I'm sure it's being done in Jamaica as we speak

i recall reeferman grew a bunch of haze types in Jamaica with great success , he was particularly happy with how they did there ,

and i think sam wanted to grow 75 000 haze plants there at some point ,, would be a perfect place for it given its tropical location and cannabis seems to enjoy the island life ...

 

[Dirt Life]

IMHO/E, the "5%" ratio is for absolute keeper status. The ratio for "good" plants is much higher. You can definately find decent smoke in a single pack of haze/hybrids... the once in a lifetime plants, yeah, that's the 5%.

 

[Elmer Bud]

Still looking for the 'Matrix' hehe. I found the Colombian Gold I had in '79 and the more recent CG '72 that I grew, were all in the head with no body or stone.

The Original Haze was all in the head as well, think I grew out one plant. I did have Colombian Red late seventies which was stony and a green variety, which had a bit of body to it.

I am smoking Colombian Gold 72 x Ohaze this morning .
It`s like you said all in the head with no body or stone.

Sensuous .

 

[Elmer Bud]

Gascanistan posts pictures and flowery descriptions of his lines, and I can tell you from experience it's marketing bullshit. You can trust or distrust whoever you want, but I'll give Shanti the benefit of the doubt. I've found some exceptional plants in MNS gear. I have some Holy Grail and Holy Smoke on the way, and have moved the Grail to the top of my grow queue. In this latest release Shanti is clearly offering more haze-leaning plants, which is a great thing IMO. The real eyebrow raiser with this release is the bit about crossing a selected Neville's Haze x Haze AC female (I have no doubt he made and selected a great one) to Haze C. It sure seemed like the Haze C had been lost. Did Shanti recover the Haze C clone from a friend in a far-away location? Did he use some frozen stored Haze C pollen? Did he select a strong haze-leaning male from an F2? Did he outcross one of his haze hybrid lines to a pure sativa and select a haze male? I don't know but I trust that Holy Grail will offer me the opportunity to find some extreme haze phenos for breeding and for personal stash.

Regarding the cure, there's no doubt in my mind that a sativa benefits greatly from a good long cure, and doesn't really come into its own until after curing for 3-6 months. I'm currently enjoying some punto rojo x mangobiche that has been curing for 18 months and it's sublime; greatly improved smell and taste.

Is Shanti selling Steaks or just Sizzle ?

 

[OldCoolSativa]

Is Shanti selling Steaks or just Sizzle ?

I'll let you know around Christmas, EB.

 

[@hempy]

I thought he said these were tested an grown out with other varieties in a greenhouse......how comes grail widow pedigree has changed too...it was originally nh x ww ?.....or are grail widow an widow grail 2 seprate lines.....one other thing is strange too......shanti says wen haze a an haze c are combined something special comes out....but to do this he had to go back to seed from nevils from the past an f2 them to pull out a male.....wat was wrong with the straight a5 x haze c combination which is closest in line to the original seeds nevil popped....an wat was wrong with mango haze....unless mango haze never had haze A in it ever...jessi seems to think the test seeds were a double of haze c....as the very firts description from shanti described it an ssh as both being a double of haze c....an the description from the current mango is haze c doubled....shantis pictures of mango haze look exactly the same as the old ssh only more sativa....they look to have the exact same parents as ssh only using a more sativa nl5hazeC morther than the one used for ssh.

hi Dark the Mango Haze test seed were very different to what was offered as a retail MH.

The MH test seed grew like NH very long flowering heavy haze expressive plants that had long flowering times.

Most of the testers complained about the jungle sats they were growing and culled them.Only Me and jesse possibly 1 other grew them out fully.

This is why the MH got re worked as they were not practical for most growers.

MM and SSH mother side are sisters the fathers are different.



Hi All

just to clear the air from confusion and before you all go making a legend from myth here is how it was done and is done still....

Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969

Haze A is no longer alive only Haze C male is along with several other different sativa lines.

but plants with the lineage of Haze A are still alive and carrying the genes within.

SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC

the Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference

Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC....that is the breeding of those three plants

considering the Haze A is no longer a male alive, it still is alive in the ancestry of some of the plants used in all these breeds

I do not have secrets about breeding but given the same seed batches we could all still create something different...it boils down to selection.

La Nina is the widow father breed to a pure Haze female...neither A or C by the way so I hope that clears up all your doubts once and for all.

There is no one other than Simon at serious seeds who follows breeding plants like we do.Most Dutch seed companies use females plants obtained from seed batches that were passed on to them or sent to them, making their origins a little doubtful at certain stages. The whole seed industry based alot of things on Neville's origins in fact , but none except Sensi Seed had the parent plants to replicate things time and time again. Whether plants dies or were lost to disease over the years...well most companies would probably not tell anyone, but think about it.How many back ups of parent plants would you need in how many countries to be sure never to loose an important line? As enforcement on growers gets more and more restricting rooms get found etc....and the law of averages catches up on you. My last problem with the Swiss authorities I lost all plants in my library...some 42 mum's and dad's...luckily we keep backup of all the most important plants in 5 different countries and have done for years...if we had not had done this then we too would have lost alot of heirlooms. I do keep original batches of seed from years ago also in several places just in case I have to go all the way back to the drawing board to do selection again...but that is as bad as it gets for us.

As you can see it is alot of work in alot of places to just keep things alive...not to mention the expenses and time factor involved.

Lastly just to clarify things to do with this site...well I do all the moderating alone plus the pms and all questions and answers....so if there is something wrong on this site it is me who made it. I have a webman to do the technical aspects but all content and daily admin of the site is up to me. Howard will be helping in a limited way one day but he is a busier person than anyone else I know. Nev is not one for public life or cyberspace...and due to family committments is happy to do some work on plants but nothing else.So I am afraid you are all dealing with Shantibaba...whether you like it or not.

All the best now off to Bologna for a 3 day fair....take care
__________________
?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-?-? shantibaba

Breeder and moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,520

 

[@hempy]

Nevil told me he gave shanti lots of seed on top of his library that would include f1 HzA crosses.

 

[Elmer Bud]

.

La Nina is the widow father breed to a pure Haze female...neither A or C by the way so I hope that clears up all your doubts once and for all.

The world`s foremost breeder .
Was spreading the truth a little thinly when he made that statement . No ?

 

[Nexus7]

^^^ That's very interesting considering he was one of the ones who was perpetuating the Haze only coming from the "hand of haze bros." line when Oldtimer's Haze was being released.

I know a lot of people will disagree but imo if something grows like a haze, smells like a haze, tastes like a haze and smokes like a haze we may as well just call it a haze ...

 

[@hempy]

The world`s foremost breeder .
Was spreading the truth a little thinly when he made that statement . No ?

Scorpion- Posted



No La Nina is a Haze Female X Widow Male...not HazeA,,,

it strikes my strange that Shantibaba would leave a mistake in his strains selection guide...also since I asked him a few weeks ago about just this subject ,he made it very clear as to what is what.
but please feel free to ask him here as this is his home of sorts.

peace


Shantibaba - posted


La Nina is the widow father breed to a pure Haze female...neither A or C by the way so I hope that clears up all your doubts once and for all.


I do not think any one bull shits more than you .


This anti Nevil anti Mrnice crusade is only exposing envy and jealousy.

 

[@hempy]

^^^ That's very interesting considering he was one of the ones who was perpetuating the Haze only coming from the "hand of haze bros." line when Oldtimer's Haze was being released.

I know a lot of people will disagree but imo if something grows like a haze, smells like a haze, tastes like a haze and smokes like a haze we may as well just call it a haze ...

I will only call it a Haze if it is genetically linked to haze that the haze brothers created.


Something few even bring up that smoked the old MM and trip weed is how Tripping weed and the old MM and even Mango heads all shared a common theme that is they all smoked like a real strong haze.