The Haze discussion thread

[ojd]

This looks like the pheno I mentioned in earlier post that grows popcornsize buds and real stretchy and Spicy/Frankincense.
Did it purple up at all the buds not leaves( the leaves never went Purple and were always really dark green until flush then turning yellow. It was very impractical to grow as crazy stretchy and small yield compared to other phenos, crazy Sativa Sativa potency though.

Peace

Mr. Nice Super Silver Haze 2003 via Heavens Stairway
one of the 5 females i had ... this one i bailed on @ 14 weeks , couldn't get it to finish , it was really wispy & impractical for me at the time

View Image

 

[ojd]

It's the best Haze I've seen in the last 15 years.
I know you asked hempy but I've grown it and bred with it and will be bringing it to the market later in the year along with Neville's last Grail project he made all dedicated to the memory of Neville Schoenmakers RIP
Peace

@hempy what are your thought on the Nevils21 x MM? I like the sound of the soaring high and Mandarin / pine flavours Bushy mentioned in the strain description, Cheers Kit

 

[RoyalFlush]

There is a rare pheno in the SSH( yellow packets)that grows solid popcorn sized buds( not gringspoon size calyx much bigger actual popcorn size) that purples up and grows extremely stretchy and all spicy Frankincense that reminds me of this Male pic everytime I see it.There was gold in those packs and all the phenos from the most Spicy Frankincense all the way through to the pine/lemon/Church.

Peace

So why the difference between the old yellow packets and the current offerings mrnice is selling now? Did shanti lose the original parents or something?

 

[ojd]

I cant answer that as I've only ever run the old packets but I dont see certain phenos online these days but you also dont see people running SSH from seed like you did as much in the early 2000's, mosty clones that are passed around

So why the difference between the old yellow packets and the current offerings mrnice is selling now? Did shanti lose the original parents or something?

 

[ojd]

When people ask me where to get Haze I still suggest MR Nice seeds as Shanti has more than anyone of Neville's old clones and his whole seed library from when Neville gifted it to him when he got out of the scene.
You might need 2 packs but guaranteed you will find something amazing( I'm talking SSH, Nevil Haze, Mango Haze and Nevil Mango, these I have experience with and will please any Haze head)

Peace

So why the difference between the old yellow packets and the current offerings mrnice is selling now? Did shanti lose the original parents or something?

 

[GoatCheese]

Yes I do know what causes it and so should of Sam with his experience so there would be no reason to have dead seeds unless they were old and not stored correctly or made fresh , but if that's the case and they were fresh how come Sam didnt have 100,000 more of these exact same seeds or even millions and nothing has surpassed those old seeds sold to Neville( RIP)

Fresh seeds aren't always explanation to poor germ rates, thou i believe seeds being very fresh has something to do with it. I just picked about 5 seeds out of a plant few months ago, gave them rest for a week or two and every seeds sprouted. At the same time, i took some seeds out of another plant and the germ rates weren't as good.


Poor germ rates happen sometime. The last Tom Hill's X18 and Deep Chunk batches (re-pro seeds made in Spain for Tom Hill, they say) had poor germ rates and the seeds weren't that old. 2015 I bought 30 of his X18 seeds and only got 4 plants out of those, while Reserva Privada's X18 version germinated fine at the same time.
I've had poor germ rates with WOS's Afghan Kush that i bought few years earlier while 10 years older seeds from Spice Bros germinated just fine.

Cannabiogen had to pull their last Taskenti batch for poor germ rates and mutant/freak seedlings and Charlie couldn't tell the reason for the problem at the time.

Hola

Sincerelly we had to retire last seed stocks of Taskenti due mutations and weird expressions, we ignore why yet! and also poor germing ratios despite being very fresh seed stocks ?¿? casess seemed to get fixed and hard to crack. So we are producing new stocks, healthy, in these months. Just few weeks after stock released we retired them quick of scene. So am afraid for you lots. Let me know anyway how it goes and if any problem I will suggest you get in touch with us for replacements. Its going to be 3 months to have new seeds ready, getting now into flowering
Sorry news are not best on this but had to explain as few lots managed to reach the market. If older stocks, they may work as usual
Best

Here's RC Colas telling about bad germ rates with ACE's Double Thai:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224322

I could prolly find more of these..

Point is, it happens for some reason or another sometimes and not even big name producers can always say why it is so.

PM Sam and ask him. I'm sure he'd love to spent few hours typing down the explanation for you about things that happened with Nevil in mid 80's, sift thru all the myth and lore. ...LOL
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Why no other good Hazes from others?
I suggested an explanation to this earlier, but you prolly missed it.

[FONT=&quot]Selection by the breeder? Nevil wrote he thought Sam's Haze plants were crap/he didn't like them, and Sam has told he actually likes the electric side of Haze[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]..and i'm not too sure all smokers like the racy/edge-y/electric side of Haze, at least i don't.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So it could be that, why other Hazes originating from Sam aren't so famous or as good as Nevil's plants were is because people might not be so into the direction of Sam's selection[/FONT]

Also, even Sam has stated that not every plant from O-Haze was/is a winner (It's a "Landrace" hybrid, sort of, and landraces aren't usually very stable), and people seem to complain that many modern Haze hybrids based on Nevil's work has shitty phenos in them, so not all the traits bred out by Nevil's Haze plants are superior to anything else. So selection is important. IF the parents aren't good enough, or not in the top shelf category, should you expect their seeds to be top quality.

..and when you have finite number of seeds to work with, it also comes down to LUCK.


A year ago i grew over 200 seeds i made myself, looking for a male to Bx to the mother plant, and i only found one male that was the kind i was looking for. Meaning if people buy 10 to 30 Haze-hybrids seeds, should they expect every plant to match Nevil's P1 parents or even the plant the breeder used on the marketing photo?

Why Shanti puts 15 or more seeds in MrNice seed pack is, according to him, so that people will have better chance to find one good plant in a pack of seeds. So clearly Shanti isn't expecting every one of his Haze hybrid seeds to produce a winner.
..so it's also down to luck which seed you get in 10 seed pack or which 200 seeds you happen to pick out of a thousand for your project.

 

[ojd]

Bro I've made well over a million seeds in my time and know all about germination and non germination etc and dont need any lessons.

Many people dont know the real story behind these mass produced seed lots and the storage methods with many companys and I mean many not storing them in the refrigerator at perfect storage conditions, obviously sam does and most but alot of resellers etc etc have no clue and keep these 100,000 of seeds in a cool dark place which is no good for long term.

Also breeders wont reveal issues most of the time and if they do they might tell a white lie or lead you down the garden path so you cant believe everything you read including this thread and any other. Unless you were there then we are reading someone's side of the story, not both sides to the story

Fresh seeds aren't always explanation to poor germ rates, thou i believe seeds being very fresh has something to do with it. I just picked about 5 seeds out of a plant few months ago, gave them rest for a week or two and every seeds sprouted. At the same time, i took some seeds out of another plant and the germ rates weren't as good.


Poor germ rates happen sometime. The last Tom Hill's X18 and Deep Chunk batches (re-pro seeds made in Spain for Tom Hill, they say) had poor germ rates and the seeds weren't that old. 2015 I bought 30 of his X18 seeds and only got 4 plants out of those, while Reserva Privada's X18 version germinated fine at the same time.
I've had poor germ rates with WOS's Afghan Kush that i bought few years earlier while 10 years older seeds from Spice Bros germinated just fine.

Cannabiogen had to pull their last Taskenti batch for poor germ rates and mutant/freak seedlings and Charlie couldn't tell the reason for the problem at the time.



Here's RC Colas telling about bad germ rates with ACE's Double Thai:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224322

I could prolly find more of these..

Point is, it happens for some reason or another sometimes and not even big name producers can always say why it is so.

PM Sam and ask him. I'm sure he'd love to spent few hours typing down the explanation for you about things that happened with Nevil in mid 80's, sift thru all the myth and lore. ...LOL
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-
-
-

Why no other good Hazes from others?
I suggested an explanation to this earlier, but you prolly missed it.


Also, even Sam has stated that not every plant from O-Haze was/is a winner (It's a "Landrace" hybrid, sort of, and landraces aren't usually very stable), and people seem to complain that many modern Haze hybrids based on Nevil's work has shitty phenos in them, so not all the traits bred out by Nevil's Haze plants are superior to anything else. So selection is important. IF the parents aren't good enough, or not in the top shelf category, should you expect their seeds to be top quality.

..and when you have finite number of seeds to work with, it also comes down to LUCK.


A year ago i grew over 200 seeds i made myself, looking for a male to Bx to the mother plant, and i only found one male that was the kind i was looking for. Meaning if people buy 10 to 30 Haze-hybrids seeds, should they expect every plant to match Nevil's P1 parents or even the plant the breeder used on the marketing photo?

Why Shanti puts 15 or more seeds in MrNice seed pack is, according to him, so that people will have better chance to find one good plant in a pack of seeds. So clearly Shanti isn't expecting every one of his Haze hybrid seeds to produce a winner.
..so it's also down to luck which seed you get in 10 seed pack or which 200 seeds you happen to pick out of a thousand for your project.

 

[Turner Morgan]

Haze

Haze

Haze is traditionally an atmospheric phenomenon in which dust, smoke, and other dry particulates obscure the clarity of the sky. The World Meteorological Organization manual of codes includes a classification of horizontal obscuration into categories of fog, ice fog, steam fog, mist, haze, smoke, volcanic ash, dust, sand, and snow.[1] Sources for haze particles include farming (ploughing in dry weather), traffic, industry, and wildfires.

 

[WHIPEDMEAT]

that s why we say purple haze in their mind - when someone lost control...

 

[RoyalFlush]

I love how this thread has first hand accounts of people who were standing in between Sam and Nevil when the haze transaction happened. Some basically reaccount Sam giving them the seeds (in a bag dated 1985 - 2020) first so they could hand it to Nevil.

 

[HalfArsedFarmer]

Has anyone actually done any real work with SSH to the point where they have lets say two lines, 60-75 days & 75+.


I did SSH & Nevs back in the 00's but as said in here massive selection & I don't run clones anymore.


I'd also like to thank those folks keeping it civil & dropping knowledge.



I left forums years ago as too many egos who think they know it all.


An open mind is welcoming of knowledge....

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Sam has never publicly confirmed for a fact wat those seeds wer...he has only sugested he thinks it could be this or that...haze work takes alot of time..near enough most of the year in green houses for one generation...so this rules out the posibility completely of them being made in holland...im sure no one in ther right mind would think you can make many generations of work in less than six months...more like 6+ years

 

[GoatCheese]

Bro I've made well over a million seeds in my time and know all about germination and non germination etc and dont need any lessons.

Many people dont know the real story behind these mass produced seed lots and the storage methods with many companys and I mean many not storing them in the refrigerator at perfect storage conditions, obviously sam does and most but alot of resellers etc etc have no clue and keep these 100,000 of seeds in a cool dark place which is no good for long term.

Also breeders wont reveal issues most of the time and if they do they might tell a white lie or lead you down the garden path so you cant believe everything you read including this thread and any other. Unless you were there then we are reading someone's side of the story, not both sides to the story

Don't need any lessons, ay? But then you're the one wondering why good hazes are seemingly rare??
Maybe you're better at understanding proper seed storage than how selection and recessive traits work. I bet it's prolly way more difficult to create good hybrid with landrace/traditional cultivars (Like Skunk1 or Haze were made) than banging UK Cheese and some OG together, what do you think, 1 million seeds?
See, i can have an attitude too, bro.

 

[ojd]

There is no attitude LOL but where are all these phenos from all these bx and projects made from the Original Haze which sam didnt create at all , he just took some seed and remade them like me and everyone else and every time it got worse and worse so please do tell me what was done to improve or even keep as same quality that was done by sam or anyone else ?
I'm all ears.
Its common knowledge that every reproduction done took it further from the Grail we are talking about.
How come A5 and C5 are still up there with the best, because they started with the best.
Sam has had and not only sam everyone in Holland
and this industry has had Haze to play with all these years and where are those legendary
plants ? .

I do what every other seed company does , use exceptional plants to make seeds giving the customer the chance to taste what we have in our own rooms.

I dont claim to do anything else and do the same as every other company out there but instead I use my own best plants mixed with a selected Male or my best plants Reversed onto itself or another of my best plants.
Why dont you start up a seed co of it's that easy and il put my best next to yours anyday !

Don't need any lessons, ay? But then you're the one wondering why good hazes are seemingly rare??
Maybe you're better at understanding proper seed storage than how selection and recessive traits work. I bet it's prolly way more difficult to create good hybrid with landrace/traditional cultivars (Like Skunk1 or Haze were made) than banging UK Cheese and some OG together, what do you think, 1 million seeds?
See, i can have an attitude too, bro.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

I myself know of just one single seed of nevil's wthat nevil made himself that come from mr nice....leets 97 Neville's haze seed gifted by shanti to leet an it come out awsome

 

[ojd]

I know more about Haze than most thats for sure and that's not me being big headed its because I've grown and smoked more Haze than most and researched it for 20 years and was there also in Amsterdam all through 2000 until this day. I've also talked with many of the old school people including the guy who made the Haze poster and many of Neville's old partners he worked with or people who run his clones for the last 20 years.
I've sampled and or grown all the famous Haze we talk about apart from Old times Haze so I know more than most and dont believe everything that is written on a website as I was there smoking things myself and have grown and made many X' with Original Haze from early 2000's purchased from flying dutchman that sam confirmed he made and sold them so I know a thing or 2 about this Haze story

Don't need any lessons, ay? But then you're the one wondering why good hazes are seemingly rare??
Maybe you're better at understanding proper seed storage than how selection and recessive traits work. I bet it's prolly way more difficult to create good hybrid with landrace/traditional cultivars (Like Skunk1 or Haze were made) than banging UK Cheese and some OG together, what do you think, 1 million seeds?
See, i can have an attitude too, bro.

 

[ojd]

Thats not pure Haze though and is easy to do as your starting with gold so it's easy to make gold.
I smoked that same
Haze your talking about from leet which was very nice and even had seeds of that same plant in my fridge your talking about made by leet and even sent leet some of those seeds back last year as he list his and still have those same seeds leet made in the fridge that's how much of a Haze head I am. I have every Haze X I've ever made plus any special Haze X's I was ever gifted or bought and search out any Spectacular Haze myself.
I have the last ever Nevil Haze seeds made by the man himself gifted by Th4sim (RIP) and british hempire for me to carry that legend on and you watch this space .
The Male Nevil Haze is already picked from 6 males and I will X him to other strains Neville made from his grail project and some of my favourite clones I work with and release them in bucket loads.
I will gift any of these seeds I make for free to any long standing member of this thread who wants to try them out and take the OJ Haze challenge .
Seeds will be ready much later in the year but I already have a few X's i made with the Mullumbimby madness x NevilHaze 21 but Haze does not sell like Indica's so you dont see much from them from sales or customers

I myself know of just one single seed of nevil's wthat nevil made himself that come from mr nice....leets 97 Neville's haze seed gifted by shanti to leet an it come out awsome

 

[ojd]

Also not taking anything away from Shanti but nothing has surpassed the NL5 Haze, SSH and Nevil Haze and Shanti just carried on the work Neville already did, which he continued the work he got from Sam, and Sam just continued the work from the Haze brothers and I just continued the work from all of the above and that's how our industry works.
Like I've said before therere only a few people who still do that work and respect to them but people want new flavours and highs every day and get bored quick now so I'm just doing what everyone else is doing

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Thats not pure Haze though and is easy to do as your starting with gold so it's easy to make gold.
I smoked that same
Haze your talking about from leet which was very nice and even had seeds of that same plant in my fridge your talking about made by leet and even sent leet some of those seeds back last year as he list his and still have those same seeds leet made in the fridge that's how much of a Haze head I am. I have every Haze X I've ever made plus any special Haze X's I was ever gifted or bought and search out any Spectacular Haze myself.
I have the last ever Nevil Haze seeds made by the man himself gifted by Th4sim (RIP) and british hempire for me to carry that legend on and you watch this space .
The Male Nevil Haze is already picked from 6 males and I will X him to other strains Neville made from his grail project and some of my favourite clones I work with and release them in bucket loads.
I will gift any of these seeds I make for free to any long standing member of this thread who wants to try them out and take the OJ Haze challenge .
Seeds will be ready much later in the year but I already have a few X's i made with the Mullumbimby madness x NevilHaze 21 but Haze does not sell like Indica's so you dont see much from them from sales or customers

Wat do you use to do your 21madness crosses OJD...a male clone or female...if possible mind if we see some pictures...nevils later breeding does seem quite rare.

 

[ojd]

These were made with a female mulum/nev 21

x Casey Jones Reversed

And also hit with a SSCH male from Reservoir seeds.

So a Reg X and Female X made with the Mulum/Nev 21
I dont have many pics at all as my Facebook was banned last year and closed down and most of my pictures were lost and not saved.
Any long standing member in this thread is welcome to them for free but they will need to pay for postage thats all I ask , and they grow them out of course asap( no grow thread needed but some flower pics would be nice to show what you did with them)

Wat do you use to do your 21madness crosses OJD...a male clone or female...if possible mind if we see some pictures...nevils later breeding does seem quite rare.