The Compound...

[DunHav`nFun]

The biggest thing you don`t want is plants side by side overgrowin and chokin each other out competing for the same space and environment including light , plus your plants can only end up as wide sideways as the container size by end of stretch bro.....and that`s what`s....

Gonna determine size of plants and weight once dried and cured.....strain dependent of course , but you see what I`m sayin.....my plants touched each other by end of stretch , and ended up 12" wide and 32-36" long depending on time of yr …..winter crops were always better frost/trichome production wise but all in all averages equaled out length and weight wise across the board yr round.... aight...

Said I was done and goin fishin in the pm or did I.....Me and the dawg`s goin fishin….., so later ….

Peace....DHF..... …...

 

[swapmeet]

Good point.
I was worried a little bit about this as well. It's just another variable that we will dial in with runs... Veg time and shape, as well as angle, etc... Worst case scenario, I will grow 2+ zip plants one to a cubby...

Hopefully I have enough good yielding strains to find phenos that grow one large cola and a couple good size secondary colas... Or a good 1 zip cola would be nice too lol.... All will be revealed in runs....

Thanks,

Swap

 

[DunHav`nFun]

Ok....Went fishin and had a great day out with the dawg ….. Mullet jumping everywhere , 76 degrees and all but no wind.....Dolphins cruising up and down the Intracoastal , caught some decent sized redfish and a couple speckled trout , so all in all.....Bangin day....now...…

What`s wrong with usin 4 of those shelves all the way around and do 96 plantlets with as much wattage as it takes to get as close to 50 watts per sq ft as possible....I mean....that`s 4 levels of 24 plants …..all that`s needed is 1 oz single colas with a horti-net out front to rest em on for support while keeping the containers from bein snatched down from plant weight......and.....

Most all popular Indica dominant strains/hybrids/polyhybrids for the last 15 yrs at least are for the most part single cola structure as smaller plants , with very few cultivars having the ability to self-branch that young before pullin the trigger and flippin 12/12.....so....that said.....as you dial each pheno hunt on each new run , you`ll know post Harvey if the lowers on your plantlets made anything worth keeping , or if they need chopped out/lollipopped for the sake of the 1 single cola swellin more next run.....IOW , and for instance...…

I had clone only Chem D for a couple yrs in my Ebb and Flow bucket rooms before I switched over to coco , so I knew what growth structure she put out naturally without takin too much out of her , and she worked perfectly in the racks.....but....a pain in the ass to dial nutrient needs wise as well as couldn`t get that bitch to root in any sort of timely manner for shit , and it was a damn good thing I was perpetual so I could accommodate her cuz I`d have shitcanned her ass otherwise.....but.....

Once dialed.....Chem D is true old school dope that hits hard and hangs , and once dialed yields accordingly....anyways.....`ol lady said come ta bed , so get ta work and ….

Peace....DHF..... ……..

 

[swapmeet]

Ok....Went fishin and had a great day out with the dawg ….. Mullet jumping everywhere , 76 degrees and all but no wind.....Dolphins cruising up and down the Intracoastal , caught some decent sized redfish and a couple speckled trout , so all in all.....Bangin day....now...…

What`s wrong with usin 4 of those shelves all the way around and do 96 plantlets with as much wattage as it takes to get as close to 50 watts per sq ft as possible....I mean....that`s 4 levels of 24 plants …..all that`s needed is 1 oz single colas with a horti-net out front to rest em on for support while keeping the containers from bein snatched down from plant weight......and.....

Most all popular Indica dominant strains/hybrids/polyhybrids for the last 15 yrs at least are for the most part single cola structure as smaller plants , with very few cultivars having the ability to self-branch that young before pullin the trigger and flippin 12/12.....so....that said.....as you dial each pheno hunt on each new run , you`ll know post Harvey if the lowers on your plantlets made anything worth keeping , or if they need chopped out/lollipopped for the sake of the 1 single cola swellin more next run.....IOW , and for instance...…

I had clone only Chem D for a couple yrs in my Ebb and Flow bucket rooms before I switched over to coco , so I knew what growth structure she put out naturally without takin too much out of her , and she worked perfectly in the racks.....but....a pain in the ass to dial nutrient needs wise as well as couldn`t get that bitch to root in any sort of timely manner for shit , and it was a damn good thing I was perpetual so I could accommodate her cuz I`d have shitcanned her ass otherwise.....but.....

Once dialed.....Chem D is true old school dope that hits hard and hangs , and once dialed yields accordingly....anyways.....`ol lady said come ta bed , so get ta work and ….

Peace....DHF..... ……..

I am glad that you had a good day fishin with the dawg...When you come out here, you should plan your trip when the yellow fin tuna and blue marlin are hitting.

In regards to the strains, all the strains I have now, or are on the way currently fit that bill. I just took advantage of the Halloween sale at the seed co, and have some strains that are pretty much, except for the freebies, all high yielding, indica dominant hybrids/polyhybrids that generally have that single cola structure to them. Based on things I have read you say many times (a couple others as well), Chem D is leading the way, followed by GDP, Sour D, Cotton Candy Kush, Big Blue Cheese, and Super Skunk. Then there are the freebies that came along with those in the form of tangerine dream, blueberry widow, and g13 haze... the freebies don't really fit the bill, but they sound interesting for head stash variety... The tangerine dream is an autoflower, so I will probably just throw it into the racks while they are not full and see what happens... the others I'll do the same...just throw them in while I am ramping up to speed and have the space...I probably wont keep any moms and they are only a couple seeds of each.

As for the ole 96ers... There is absolutely nothing wrong with lining 4 of those in a square and hitting 96 plants in an inner diameter of 4'x4' or 16 sf x 50 watts, would equal a required 800 watts of lighting to hit that 50w/sf. I can do that by stacking a 600 and 315w light, which would actually be 57.19 w/sf.

Unfortunately, these bedrooms at the compound are tiny like jail cells, like 6.5x9 with built in cabs that I am considering turning into drying racks....so I could not fit 2 of those in there. Since the racks are 1' deep, they can be centered on the line of the 4' square and each have 6" in and 6" out of the square, bringing the inner area to 3'x3' or 9 sf. That would make a single 600w light 66.67 w/sf. Or if I want to distribute the light more evenly, I could stack the 315s and get 70w/sf. If I do that, you will notice that the 4th shelf on the narrower racks have a roof over the top shelf. If I am stacking the 315s, I might as well expand the longer racks to include the same set up as the narrower ones and set two more plants on the 5th shelf all around. This would be an extra 6 plants on the long racks and 4 on the short ones for a total 20 more plants, or an even 100 total in the same 3'3' foot print. Further, I will be able to fit two of those quads in each of the 3 bedrooms. If I could pull a zip per plant, or anywhere near it, the numbers will be mind-blowing.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

Ok.....Let`s not get ahead of ourselves.....while it`s fresh on my mind I`ll tryta answer all your questions I can remember.....First off.....there`s no reason to go crazy inside the grow area covering the fronts of the shelves with reflectix and makin slits for the plantlets to stick through.....My racks had a lotta exposed wood and I chose to cover it in reflectix rather than paint....

The racks/shelves/rootzones needta be able to breathe and allow constant air movement so as to prevent any stagnant air pockets anywhere....Cover the backs , or hang curtains made of reflectix usin shower curtain holders and you can slide the shit sideways to access the plants while closing the whole grow area off as needed....just things to ponder....now.....

Clone factory.....If you`re goin down the rabbit hole , you`re gonna need aerocloners for as many plants as you talk of ultimately runnin , so sure you can build em , but there`s a couple on the market that`re kinda pricy , but they`ve got fans incorporated into the units that prevent the pumps from heatin the water and causin rootrot…..or you can build your own and put the pumps on timers so they`ll only run intermittently and not continuously to heat the solution and cause anaerobic conditions inside said units....aight....now.....

The corners are dead....that`s where I discussed light falls off , the plants will grow into each other , choking em out and competing for light as well as environment , so....Gotta back the shelves away from each other to compensate , and that makes the grow area bigger , so that`s why I angled my corners , and you should too....or somethin similar cuz there`s many waysta skin a mule.....and lastly....

If you use cloners and let em stay in said units long enough ta grow sufficient legs , the clear cups could be bypassed and then transplanted straight into the finish containers , and that moves things along faster without a preveg sequence , unless you wanted the plantlets to acclimate and set roots in the bags before pullin the trigger and flippin 12/12....but....

Runnin the kinds of numbers you`re considering , the finished dried and cured plant weight goes down considerably for the weight possibilities....I think 1 oz is pie in the sky numbers without some veg and rootset before the flip , but that`s my opinion from many yrs of doin this shit , so it`s an educated guess but educated.....aight.....

Get ta work and.....

Peace....DHF..... …….

 

[swapmeet]

Ok.....Let`s not get ahead of ourselves.....while it`s fresh on my mind I`ll tryta answer all your questions I can remember.....First off.....there`s no reason to go crazy inside the grow area covering the fronts of the shelves with reflectix and makin slits for the plantlets to stick through.....My racks had a lotta exposed wood and I chose to cover it in reflectix rather than paint....

The racks/shelves/rootzones needta be able to breathe and allow constant air movement so as to prevent any stagnant air pockets anywhere....Cover the backs , or hang curtains made of reflectix usin shower curtain holders and you can slide the shit sideways to access the plants while closing the whole grow area off as needed....just things to ponder....now.....

Clone factory.....If you`re goin down the rabbit hole , you`re gonna need aerocloners for as many plants as you talk of ultimately runnin , so sure you can build em , but there`s a couple on the market that`re kinda pricy , but they`ve got fans incorporated into the units that prevent the pumps from heatin the water and causin rootrot…..or you can build your own and put the pumps on timers so they`ll only run intermittently and not continuously to heat the solution and cause anaerobic conditions inside said units....aight....now.....

The corners are dead....that`s where I discussed light falls off , the plants will grow into each other , choking em out and competing for light as well as environment , so....Gotta back the shelves away from each other to compensate , and that makes the grow area bigger , so that`s why I angled my corners , and you should too....or somethin similar cuz there`s many waysta skin a mule.....and lastly....

If you use cloners and let em stay in said units long enough ta grow sufficient legs , the clear cups could be bypassed and then transplanted straight into the finish containers , and that moves things along faster without a preveg sequence , unless you wanted the plantlets to acclimate and set roots in the bags before pullin the trigger and flippin 12/12....but....

Runnin the kinds of numbers you`re considering , the finished dried and cured plant weight goes down considerably for the weight possibilities....I think 1 oz is pie in the sky numbers without some veg and rootset before the flip , but that`s my opinion from many yrs of doin this shit , so it`s an educated guess but educated.....aight.....

Get ta work and.....

Peace....DHF..... …….

I will cover the backs with the reflectix.

I agree with everything you said, of course. I built a 38 site aero cloner and I will likely need to build another one or two... I will also use the plastic cups because like you said, I will need a constant supply of a lot of clones to feed the beast. One of the ways to do that, as you suggested, is to root a sucker branch/lateral or two from each clone waiting to be flipped, which means that there must be a week or two of veg time to let the roots develop before flipping them...
As you suggest, I will let the roots develop well on the aero cloner clones, and veg them in the 2g grow bags, hand watered. For the cup clones, I will let them develop strong root systems in the cups, then transplant them into their 2g bags to veg.

I am thinking about the veg set up... if I am vegging in the 2g bags, how am I going to get the most clones properly vegged with the least amount of effort?

If I am hand watering, I will let the root system develop with a few days of eod watering, and get to watering once per day by the end of week one as HGO Suggests. Them build up to 3x per day by the end of week 2, and that is when the branching will start ramping up. and I can shape them and get them ready to flip when they are done.

The question is, how do I light them, feed them, and house them for this?

My first thought was to do kind of a mini stadium set up with a circle around a vertical 315 CMH, then a couple more layers on risers...and hand water.

The problem with that is that I do not want to promote too much horizontal growth, though I can prune them into the shape I am looking for that way and root all the trimmings to feed the beast.

Another thought was to veg them in an exact replica of what they will be flowering in with a pre veg under floros to develop strong root systems, then moving into the veg racks where branching and shaping is the focus, until they are the right size and shape to go into the flowering racks... This seems like the "right" way to do it, even though you kind of scoffed the vertical vegging the first time I brought it up.

I am completely open to suggestions, of course... I am trying to figure out how to veg a couple hundred clones in 2g grow bags and vertical seems like the answer.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

What ta do what ta do.....Dewd…..you`re blazin trails I never ventured down , so I can give you my acct of what I did that worked for me.....

I had 2 cabs for each flip room and each one had 2 levels for rootin cuts with T-8`s and the bottom for pre veg till transplant with T-5`s...... all in the clear cups , and I wanna stress this again if you don`t remember anything , remember this...…

Veg horizontally with T-5`s and the best bulbs you can get to stack nodes and build laterals , and when they get put into the grow area with the HID lighting and flipped 12/12 , with proper watts per sq ft and constant feeds to keep metabolism high , you can almost see em twitch and blast off toward the big lights.....and hey.....

The T-8`s were just low wattage light conditions for the cuts to concentrate on building roots and not on foliage , but the T-5`s were 50 watts per sq ft 8 bulb 432 watts blastin the fully rooted cuts as soon as they could get down to the bottom level for foliage and node stackin....so.....

I can`t say if vertical veg will help you bro , that`s somethin you`ll haveta find out on your own...…I`m here ta help where I can.....everything else is the X factors to be worked out

Peace....DHF..... …….

 

[swapmeet]

What ta do what ta do.....Dewd…..you`re blazin trails I never ventured down , so I can give you my acct of what I did that worked for me.....

I had 2 cabs for each flip room and each one had 2 levels for rootin cuts with T-8`s and the bottom for pre veg till transplant with T-5`s...... all in the clear cups , and I wanna stress this again if you don`t remember anything , remember this...…

Veg horizontally with T-5`s and the best bulbs you can get to stack nodes and build laterals , and when they get put into the grow area with the HID lighting and flipped 12/12 , with proper watts per sq ft and constant feeds to keep metabolism high , you can almost see em twitch and blast off toward the big lights.....and hey.....

The T-8`s were just low wattage light conditions for the cuts to concentrate on building roots and not on foliage , but the T-5`s were 50 watts per sq ft 8 bulb 432 watts blastin the fully rooted cuts as soon as they could get down to the bottom level for foliage and node stackin....so.....

I can`t say if vertical veg will help you bro , that`s somethin you`ll haveta find out on your own...…I`m here ta help where I can.....everything else is the X factors to be worked out

Peace....DHF..... …….

I have that 9 bulb t5 I can use for the horizontal pre-veg if I want... I can also pre-veg horizontal under a MH... IIRC, in Heath's last tree grow thread on here, which you kept going for him, answering questions and whatnot for people when he was busy with family and life, Heath mentioned that he vegged those trees under a single 400 MH hung vertically between them. That is what inspired my vertical veg idea....of course, that was a completely different style of grow, set up...etc. I can always put the moms under the 9 bulb T8, with the aero cloners to the side under that footprint... and put the army of cups under the t8 fixture... and I can experiment with the vert veg on the side because hey... like you said...there are going to be a shitload of clones. Whichever way gives us the size and shape we are looking for in the fastest time.

At the end of the day... that is all part of dialing in the system. We know it is not going to just immediately snap into place....it will take runs to get up to speed, and some more to dial it, but it will get better with each run, believe that.

 

[swapmeet]

Also, let's talk coco for a sec... You used the chunky coco husk and the stringy coc fiber at what ratio in your bags? I know you used to wash them with SM-90 which is no longer available, but anything else to prepare it?

 

[bucketswithsoil]

Hey swap.....
Hope it's cool I swung by...this thread is super sick for sure...I see ichy and DHF popping in here frequently,that's killer .....I'm loving the updates....
Hey DHF I sent Cha a PM....just was wondering if ya received....
Swap these racks I hear about are gonna be something serious im sure of ...

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I have not grown like Swap is proposing so I have to leave the set up and such to him. When I can help I will try though.

 

[swapmeet]

Hey swap.....
Hope it's cool I swung by...this thread is super sick for sure...I see ichy and DHF popping in here frequently,that's killer .....I'm loving the updates....
Hey DHF I sent Cha a PM....just was wondering if ya received....
Swap these racks I hear about are gonna be something serious im sure of ...

Hey bro,
Of course, everyone is welcome here. This is a place of learning. Any question you have as we go to ask anyone, feel free to ask it here so we can all learn from it...unless it's private, then you can pm it. If it pertains to some aspect of vertical, lay it on us and you will get an answer that will benefit the community..

 

[swapmeet]

I have not grown like Swap is proposing so I have to leave the set up and such to him. When I can help I will try though.

Icky, every bit of your knowledge and experience, as well as opinion, is very valuable to me, so don't ever hold back.

I do not have any experience in this type of set up, or even coco either... Luckily I have Freds, you, HGO, as well as others who chime in with tons of experience and runs under our collective belts.

This is going to be a hell of a journey, and it will take some time, some mistakes, probably the lives of a few plants and lots of clones...but I know that we can dial this in... I have no pressure on me, so I can take my time and get it right... and I already know some things I try won't work...Just part of the game....Many bumps on the road to Nirvana.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

Hey Bro.....again while I`m thinkin bout em and they`re fresh in my mind......the coco.....Gotta be careful with the shit you buy cuz there`s STILL no quality control across the board , and it can be salty as fuck and coffee grounds "mushy" consistency that will guaranteed get overwatered and kill the plants from lack of drainage and aeration to the rootzone.....and that`s why back then I chose to order different types to mix my own and get the proper drainage and air porosity in the rootzone as possible....so....

I mixed 1/3 stringy/pithy fibers with 1/3 chunks/husks whatever the fuck you call em , and lastly 1/3 chunky perlite for moisture retention as well as aeration factor.....and lastly....# 5 smartpots filled as much as they`d hold on a 45 degree angle ONLY cuz I hadta use the larger bags to insure em not dryin out between feeds once a day and causin residual salt buildup that makes the shit acidic as Icky calls it and ph drops causin imbalances and lockouts.....once stretch was over , I started feedin twice a day , prolly bout week 5 when they started drinkin and swellin more....so....

My thoughts were you start growin those mom plants out in Coco dtw and get your feet wet.....You`ll need Cal/Mag supplements as well as a good base nute , never overfeed and 600-750 ppms were my comfort zone , so you can start there.....Drip Clean will be your savior since you a coco newbie , so getchas some and use accordingly.....aight....Coco 101 to be continued....now....

Vegging vertically.....Heath Robinson was the first to make me realize that plants vegged differently with bare bulbs , cuz even when I ran Krusty buckets I was taught to use 400 watt MH horizontals to veg with till "tit`s high" and then flip and put in the bloom rooms , but when they went in , we were taught to hang the bulbs at the top of the main colas and raise em as they stretched till end of stretch , then drop em down to top of socket even with top cola.....so ….

Yes you can veg with bare bulbs but you have to have em down amongst the plants for maximum light penetration and photosynthesis , and as Heath showed plainly with a side by side @ HG420 way back when , his exact same plants under T-5`s compared to those with bare bulbs were as different as daylight and dark after just a couple weeks or so veg.....vertical vegged plants were short lil bushes with longer limbs reaching sideways toward the light stimulus , while the ones under the T-5 were more Xmas tree shaped with the main leads stretching toward the light but the rest were just stacking nodes and building lower laterals as in nature....also.....

Once flipped , the bare bulb plants even though the bulbs were set at tops of plants , stretched maybe 1/2 of what the horizontally vegged plants did with a lot more cleaning out to do for proper airflow and budsite control , and although yields were fairly close , the vertically vegged plants had smaller nugs , just shit ton`s of em….. so IOW.....thoughts to ponder.....and hey....who`s to say it fuckin matters ok ?.....but....if real estate is at a premium for X amounts of plants , then lil fat sideways bushes don`t work in my book but I`ve been wrong before.....just not much...lol....and again....

I know plenty of folks that veg with bare bulbs and swear by it....pretty sure Icky `s one of em before he moved to LED`s but ......I know Delta9nxs vegged vert but most all the hybrids nowadays turn into big ass bushes anyways once they`re big , so that`s right up his PPK`s alley for big plants but again I digress....many waysta skin a mule....aight....

Almost forgot to say I read your pm Buckets , got busy and forgot about you.....no biggie on the DN info , I got a dozen under T-5`s as we speak with their slow veggin asses although there has been a cold snap , and I`m a couple states away from yas although I`m still considered in the Redneck Riviera of snow white sands and bare bottom babes....My beach place is the last property on a dead end rd with what usedta be a ferry landing turned into a nature preserve , so my property`s on both sides of the rd with my pier and boathouse on the intracoastal , and my beach house up on telephone poles per hurricane code , and yeah.....I`m the last house on the left....lol....aight....

Goin home to the farm for Thanksgiving and Xmas in a week or so....never had any Fall this yr , went straight from hot as fuck to cold and wet....don`t like it.....anyways.... gotta pack up these bitches and haul em home to veg till they get decent sized to take cuts and flip after sexing , cuz Dans sent me these and I`m a find a keeper although most look cabbage leafed DMT sided but who knows , and not that it matters , I can use some night time couchlock shit.....was lookin for a GG4 leaner though not gonna lie , so time will tell....and hey...I`m sure the DMT pheno`s are fire from Joe , so as long as it takes ta get to look like somethin , that`s my current project....later folks.....and....

Peace....DHF..... …...

 

[Ichabod Crane]

OK lets talk about your coco.

Ideally you want about 30-35% porosity in your coco if you hand water once a day. That is unless you want it to dry out real fast. You should be doing a saturation test of your coco so you know what is working for you and what is not.

So to do a saturation test you need two containers of the same size, a screen for the top of one container, a funnel, and a tape measure.

Start by filling one container with your coco mix to the top. Now pour water in the container with the coco till it reaches the top of the coco. The coco will settle some and when it does fill the container back up with coco and top it off with the water. Now the coco is saturated.



Now put the screen on the top of the container with the coco and water and drain it into the empty container. You will want to angle the container with the coco so that you get as much of the perched water as you can.



Perched water is the water that clings to the bottom approximately 4 inches of your media in your pot. If you fill a clear container up with media and water it you will see a layer at the bottom that will be very wet. That layer contains perched water. This is one of the reasons I dont like to use hydroton in the bottom of my pots. It moves the perch water layer up in the pot. That area can kill you roots if it stays saturated to long.

After you drain as much of the water out of the coco and water mix as you can you can now measure the amount of water you get. Simple hold a tape up to the side of your container. In my picture the water is up 2 inches on a 6 inch jar. That means my coco after watering will have about 33% air. This is about right were I like it.



Now if you are auto watering your plants you will want to keep a eye on you air holding capacity of your mix. This will let you know when you need to add chunky coco to lighten up your mix if you get some bad coco.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Next we will talk about salts in your coco.

Some coco can be really salty. This can slow down bigger plants and kill little plants.

When I do a large amount of coco it is not practical for me to flush it all before I use it. Instead I will flush it with the plant in it for larger plants and flush it before use for smaller plants.

For the larger plants I will up pot the plant and run a nutrient mix threw the pot. I like to run an amount of about 2-2.5 times the size of the pot. This will flush the salts out and also the extra K.

Think of it like this. You have a wall of cabinets. In each locker is salt or K. You dont want to cook will just salt in your meal, you want a variety. So you must empty some of the cabinets and fill them with other stuff to cook with. To your plant that is nitrogen, calcium, phosphorus, ect.

When you flush you fill up the coco with what your plants want and flush out what you have extra of. This is why frequent waterings of coco works so well. As your plant takes up what it needs and your coco gets out of balance. When you water, you balance the coco back out. Not only that but you add the water back in, flush out the stale air, and balance the PH as well.

Now for the small plants like the ones in cups I will precharge and flush my coco. I do that with two buckets and a paint strainer bag. I take one bucket and drill a bunch of holes in the bottom.





Those are 2 gallon buckets. I get them for free from Sam's club. The paint strainer bags I get at Home Depot. They come in a plastic bag like this. Ask for them at the paint counter if you cant find them. I use the 5 gallon strainer bags.



Now just line the bucket with the holes in it with a paint strainer bag. Put your coco in it. Then place that bucket inside of your other bucket. First run a bunch of water threw the coco to flush out the salts in the coco. You want to flush this real well because your little plants are less tolerant of salt than larger plants are.



Once you are done flushing it with water squeeze the bag to get as much water out of the coco as you can. Then run your nutrient mix threw the coco and gently squeeze out the extra. You want it wet but not dripping wet. You are trying to get it so that you dont have to water your clones when you first put then into your cups or containers. In other words you are giving it the right start with air content in the cup. If you water it could be to much water and suffocate the clone. Remember that perch water content. You are getting rid of that so your clones are not sitting in water.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Ok last we will talk about how I veg with my vertical lights.

I like to move the lights based on how the plant grows and how it does not. As you grow your plants you will find some the stretch more than others. Since I grow a mix of plants and I need them to be the right size and shape I kind of prune then with light placement.

Now this will not eliminate pruning when I take them to flower but will stack the buds closer or farther away from each other.

So if I have a really stretchy plant I will put the light to the side of the plant in veg. This will cause the top to slow down and fill in the lower part of the plant. By doing it like that I am more likely to have a full screen when the plant goes to flower.

Now if I have a plant that dont stretch hardly at all I will place the light way up high. This will make it stretch out so I dont have to prune most of the plant off when it goes to flower.

Most plants will fall in between. In that case I just hold the bulb just above the plant tops to get it to stretch. If it stretches to much I simple move it to where I need the plant to grow. Be that filling in or stretching out.

You can do the same thing with different light spectrums as well. Higher numbers will stop the stretch and lower spectrums will cause the stretch.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Sorry for the dump but you asked for it.

 

[swapmeet]

I mixed 1/3 stringy/pithy fibers with 1/3 chunks/husks whatever the fuck you call em , and lastly 1/3 chunky perlite for moisture retention as well as aeration factor.....

I see....I did not realize that you mixed the chunky perlite throughout the mix...I thought just top and bottom... So 1/3 chunks, 1/3 stringy, 1/3 chunky perlite...got it.

My thoughts were you start growin those mom plants out in Coco dtw and get your feet wet.....You`ll need Cal/Mag supplements as well as a good base nute , never overfeed and 600-750 ppms were my comfort zone , so you can start there.....Drip Clean will be your savior since you a coco newbie , so getchas some and use accordingly.....aight....Coco 101 to be continued....now....

That is a good idea. I won't change over the current mothers, but I will run this new batch of mothers on the way with DTW coco to get my feet wet. I will run them in 3 gal bags so I can fit them all in 4 rows of 4 under the 4' T8 fixture for now...If I run out of room, I will have to use one of the MH as well.

This way I can use the T5 fixture right next to the T8 fixture, and use the T8 just for clones...the mothers will get a little side light from the T5 that way...

So Cal Mag and GH nutes... Should I get the three part or Flora Nova? Also, you just mix the cal mag into the res, or do you do some sort of pre-treat?

Vegging vertically.....Heath Robinson was the first to make me realize that plants vegged differently with bare bulbs , cuz even when I ran Krusty buckets I was taught to use 400 watt MH horizontals to veg with till "tit`s high" and then flip and put in the bloom rooms , but when they went in , we were taught to hang the bulbs at the top of the main colas and raise em as they stretched till end of stretch , then drop em down to top of socket even with top cola.....so ….

Yes you can veg with bare bulbs but you have to have em down amongst the plants for maximum light penetration and photosynthesis , and as Heath showed plainly with a side by side @ HG420 way back when , his exact same plants under T-5`s compared to those with bare bulbs were as different as daylight and dark after just a couple weeks or so veg.....vertical vegged plants were short lil bushes with longer limbs reaching sideways toward the light stimulus , while the ones under the T-5 were more Xmas tree shaped with the main leads stretching toward the light but the rest were just stacking nodes and building lower laterals as in nature....also.....

Once flipped , the bare bulb plants even though the bulbs were set at tops of plants , stretched maybe 1/2 of what the horizontally vegged plants did with a lot more cleaning out to do for proper airflow and budsite control , and although yields were fairly close , the vertically vegged plants had smaller nugs , just shit ton`s of em….. so IOW.....thoughts to ponder.....and hey....who`s to say it fuckin matters ok ?.....but....if real estate is at a premium for X amounts of plants , then lil fat sideways bushes don`t work in my book but I`ve been wrong before.....just not much...lol....and again....

I know plenty of folks that veg with bare bulbs and swear by it....pretty sure Icky `s one of em before he moved to LED`s but ......I know Delta9nxs vegged vert but most all the hybrids nowadays turn into big ass bushes anyways once they`re big , so that`s right up his PPK`s alley for big plants but again I digress....many waysta skin a mule....aight....

Peace....DHF..... …...

I will veg horizontally... I need the little 26" Christmas trees with one huge main cola, and maybe 4 good sized secondary colas, but hey, as long as they add up to a zip plus per plant when they are dry and have some bag appeal, then I am happy as can be.

 

[swapmeet]

Sorry for the dump but you asked for it.

Just like I told my girl the other night, "I feel honored to have you dump on me..." Just kidding, that's gross, but seriously, feel free to dump INFORMATION on me as often as you think of it!
Thank you very much for that tutorial I have taken notes and will put it to use along with Fred's advice on the getting my feet wet with mother coco, 1/3s mix, and horizontal vegging for clones...

In the future, I may use my 4' 9 bulb t8 to root clones, move them under the T5 to pre veg, and keep my mothers in a donut around a MH. That would limit the mother numbers to around 8 though.... We will see... Obviously I won't keep mothers from every strain...just the ones I want to keep around...

This GG #1 is growing like a... well, a weed