TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[Guest]

Well its 7:35 AM I've had to shut the light off as the power keeps flickering on/off every once in a while. Just enough to throw the HPS out. We are up to 54 mph winds outside now. Yikes! The Eye is still about 1 or 2 hours away from crossing me.

Here are some scans I took of my def leafs. You can see the K def. and/or Ca. Notice its from the tips then speckled (K/Ca my thoughts). Also, the leaves are dark green..so plenty of Mg and N and P I'd think? No?

Anyhow..running at 5.7 today 1400 ppms by floros for a few hours until Wilma gets done...just hit my power again...gotta run. lol


EDIT: didn't get to send this earlier...

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Good luck with wilma It looks like calcium defeciency to me, now I'll remove my simple ass from an aero thread

 

[Swimmer]

Rust spots are a sign of cal/mag. Are you using RO water? I've seen that problem with RO water alot, even when using a cal/mag supplement. If so don't and you'll never have that problem again. Straight from the tap for best results. If you are using modern nutrients, and you obviously are, then any PH level between 5.2-6.8 will allow you to grow beautiful healthy plants. Marijuana is not that picky. Nutrient lockout is not something that occurs without some extreamly abnormal conditions. You're over analyzing the problem.

When designing an aero system always make it so that you have access to your sprayers from the "outside". The picture is an example of a good method. Use a #3 rubber stopper with a pre-installed hole (you can buy them that way). Forget about that spinner and install the EXL by simply screwing it into the 1/8" ID tube (perfect for #10 threads). The softer tube material will form to the threads.

 

[Guest]

You're over analyzing the problem.

Nah,he wouldnt do that.........

 

[Guest]

Swimmer,

The healthy plant buffer zone goes away with the medium so in an environment with no meduim you have to be more specific in what you give the plants. They become more picky when grown like this. Soil provides a much broader range of acceptable conditions and the range goes down from there.

There are less benefits in having the foggers accessable from outside the rig The positioning of the foggers is very important as the spray is super fine and has to be pointed at the root mass to get even coverage. You can't just stick the line in the top with the fogger pointing down. Leaks are a huge problem and the way you suggest to push the fogger into the line is a prime leak area and they would blow off under hi pressure. I would say the only disadvantage to having the foggers inside the box is servicing them if they clog, etc. This can be a PITA if you have a bunch to change as JAT had to but once you have them set up you don't have to mess with them much. And if you do, just prop up the top and change it out.

 

[Swimmer]

GroNut,

I am refering to hydroponics and yes even aeroponics regarding the PH range. I'm sure that soil offers some buffering protection (I know absolutely nothing about soil), but in any hydroponic system, media or not, a PH range of 5.2-6.8 will yield beautiful plants.

Now lets talk about foggers,

A true 50 micron aeroponic fog (which is what this thread is about) does NOT need to be directed specifically at each root, as the generated fog (cloud) will permeate the entire chamber regardless of it's origin (within reason). I think that Pod Racer would back me on this.

Regarding your comment:

"Leaks are a huge problem and the way you suggest to push the fogger into the line is a prime leak area and they would blow off under hi pressure."

Humm, lets think about that. Lets suppose your line pressure is 80 psi. Now you are installing a sprayer into a 1/8 diameter hole. That hole has an area of only .012 square inch. Multiply that times 80 and we get a whopping 0.96 pounds of force trying to blow out that sprayer. So you see that it is a non-issue. And besides, I do it all the time.

But I do understand concerns with sprayer location and would still recommend that even based on your scenario, that pictured sprayer line (1/2 PVC tube) should be made to withdraw from the tub for cleanning without having to lift the plants. It's just good design and easy to do so why not? The same goes for checking PH, changing Nutes etc.

btw. Is that exposed wood inside your chamber?

 

[Guest]

Now lets talk about foggers,

A true 50 micron aeroponic fog (which is what this thread is about) does NOT need to be directed specifically at each root, as the generated fog (cloud) will permeate the entire chamber regardless of it's origin (within reason). I think that Pod Racer would back me on this.

Fogger placement in my rig has a direct affect on each plant's root growth. The fog does float around the box but the spray from the fogger seems to get the watering done. I'm not sure that the floating fog (less than 50u I suspect) gets much water to the plants. I had an area in each corner of my rig that had less spray coverage than the rest and within 2 days the roots from the clones in these corners showed less root growth than the others. I propped up the lid and added a fogger in each corner and the roots responded with faster growth.

Like I explained (politely I thought) there is not enough advantages to having the foggers outside the box and more to having them inside. I'm not a genius but I'm not a moron either and I think I can put somthing together pretty good. Having said that I ran my last rig in tubes and was running 40 psi line pressure and had leaks pop up now and then in some of the spaghetti lines. I've done it both ways.



I will remove my fogger manifold and clean it after harvest since I have no reason to take it out before that.

Yes, that is exposed wood inside the box, it's not sealed or anything...

 

[JustATry]

Swimmer - I couldn't disagree with you more. If you are running the correct filtration, pressure, and decent fogger there should be no reason as to why you would need "outside" accress to your foggers. It's just more work to setup with benefits. BTW, do you even have a setup? You sure to preach a lot, but do you practice. Do you have a TAE rig? Isn't this the problem we had before?

Sure, tap water may give you good results, but that can vary from city to city. There is no way I can use tap water as my TDS levels come out at 550PPM. If I were to use tap water I would overload Ca, Mg, and throw a buch of shit I don't want in the water and other trace elements at undesired levels. The nutrients myself, and PR, are using are formulated for RO water.

GroNut - damn I am going to build my next rig out of that wood too!

 

[Swimmer]

GroNut,

" I'm not sure that the floating fog (less than 50u I suspect) gets much water to the plants."

Perhaps it's because of your watering cycle. If you were to run your sprayers 24/7 water might not be a problem. Note that Shira foggers are a satelite from the grow box.

I don't mean to get into an argument, but I have experienced clogged sprayers from time to time regardless of the filtration (I still can't figure it out) and it has always been usefull to have outside access. IMO it is still good design.

JustATry,

I've never heard of RO nutrients. Who makes them? Regardless of your city, assuming you live in a developed country I would bet an OG Kush clone that your yields would be exactly the same using the 550ppm water.

I think that people get stuck on an idea thinking that to deviate would spell disaster. It would not. Marijuana just grows and grows.

 

[Guest]

Argument??...lol I can't argue with you as you don't have anything valid to take up.

Where did you come up with me having a watering problem? You do not deserve talking to until you have read and understand more about this thread and growing method.

Learning comes from reading, understanding what you have read, and asking relevant questions in a polite manner.. try sticking to that.

 

[JustATry]

Swimmer - You will get lockout using hard water (i.e. above 200PPM) been there, done that. Hence my reasoning for using RO water. RO gives you a base level to start with 0 PPM, or slightly above. Then you can add what you want into the water versus what the sanitation department decides to add.

A lot of nutrients nowadays are based on RO, or "soft water". There are also "hard water" nutrients designed with lower calcium. Here is a c&p from GH on their FloroMicro Hard Water -


"General Hydroponics Hardwater FloraMicro™ provides rapidly growing plants with a combination of chelated micronutrients uniquely formulated for hardwater conditions. If the dissolved salts in your water supply measure 200 ppm or more we strongly recommend that you obtain a water analysis to determine calcium content. Excessive calcium is the main factor in your decision to use Hardwater FloraMicro.

Phosphoric acid is usually used to lower pH in hydroponic solutions. This is fine in normal water but in hard water large quantities of phosphoric acid are needed to achieve the optimum pH for hydroponic growing. Large quantities of phosphoric acid will cause phosphates to rise and accumulate resulting in nutrient imbalance and affecting uptake of other nutrients. Hardwater FloraMicro is made with less calcium and has a lower pH to counteract hard water problems while maintaining proper nutrient balance.

If an analysis of your water supply reveals that the Calcium content of your water supply is greater then 70 ppm (mg/liter) than you should use Hardwater FloraMicro. If your water contains 30 to 50 ppm Calcium, you can mix our original FloraMicro with HardWater FloraMicro to create a perfect blend for your plants. Hardwater FloraMicro enables growers to provide plants with proper nutrition when combined with the powerful elements in FloraGro and FloraBloom, even when using hard water. Hardwater FloraMicro reduces the problems associated with hard water and allows growers longer periods between reservoir changes."

And here is a pic of DutchMaster's feeding schedule for the One Series. Notice the red circle?



Hard water does effect nutrient uptake, deficiencies, and yield. You own me a Kush clone!

You skipped over my question about growing. Do you, or have you, grown anything? Your questions and analysis seemed very uneducated from what I can make of them. If you want to ask questions, or have valid arguments, that's fine. But as of right now you don't and act as if you know everything already. This is basic shit!

 

[Swimmer]

JustaTry,

First, yes I do grow with aeroponics. I've grown using GH Rainforrest units and the last few years with what you guys call TAG. My water is 400ppm in my area and I have not had any problems with either GH Flora or Canna nutrients. Never had to resort to the Hard water stuff. I'm sorry that I sound so uneducated, it's just that no matter what I've ever done, my plants just keep growing, never had to think or work at it much. I get over a gram a watt and that is good enough for me. So when I hear people running around like a chicken with it's head cut off screaming lock out, lock out and worrying about a .5 point PH swing I have to laugh.

No I did not read this entire thread but I am put off that the few people posting to this thread seem so paranoid and combative. I merely suggest that a better design would incorporate a means to clean clogged sprayers and I get flamed for it.

 

[JustATry]

Swimmer - I am not flamming you, you just come across like a jerk! If I am reading out of context, my apologies. A lot of the questions you were asking are covered in this thread, and have been answered numerous times before.

If you have been growing why not post some results? I am not one to call someone out but you do only have 8 posts and nothing in your gallery. I would love to see a 1GPW grow, seriously. I love pics!

 

[Swimmer]

I'll see if I can borrow a camera. What's the big deal about 1gr/watt?

 

[JustATry]

Nothing "big" about it. It takes a well-rounded grower to hit the 1GPW mark each grow. I started with .6 my first grow, .7 second, .8 third, and I hit 1GPW my last soil grow. If you are doing a smaller garden, like 400 or 600 watts, then the 1GPW is a little easier to achieve. But when you start pushing multi KW grows, then it becomes a true test of your skills and strain.

If you can hit the 1GPW mark easily, way to go! You have your shit dialed in and that is great. That is what we are all trying to do hear. This is my first table grow and I am hoping to hit, atleast, that mark this grow. 3-4 more weeks to go!

 

[Swimmer]

Well, Ive been growing since 1981 so I guess I just take things for granted. Strain is an important factor, also getting a nice even canopy. JustAtry you have a very nice grow going, I'm sure that you'll hit your mark. As for Pod Racers grow,,well lets just say if it were me, I would put it out of it's misery and start over, but never give up.
I guess my focus is on results rather than looking at why things work under a microscope. I'll leave the nutrients to the manufacturers. When they say to run them between 5.5-6.5 I've done just that and never had a problem. Marijuana is just not that hard to grow well.

 

[whereisbrianV.]

"I guess my focus is on results rather than looking at why things work under a microscope."

If we don't think about things objectively then how will anything improve? Sure you plants will grow with little attention but to truly understand the mechanics behind the growth will yield much more power than the finished product. What I am speaking of is knowledge. Knowledge of the intament details of life, sure one can appreciate the plant for it's comsumer values, but to understand that which has been taken for granted is my sacrament. Sorry if you don't get your rocks off by then microscopic happens of life and all that is around us. Any fool can throw some seeds in the ground and let life take its course, but I chose to be God and control the existence of my environment. Is PR hurting you by going to great means to make sure no stone is left unturned in the quest for perfection? NO, he is helping you by explaining that which you do not care to understand. But your argument is valid; we do make things hard on ourselves by growing the way we do, but we are not trying to reinvent the wheel, we are perfecting it. If you really had something positive to add you would have taken the time to read the first few pages, but cannabis is so easy to grow that you didn't have to waste the time with that nonsense. I try not to post a things of no value but you went to far and I had to respond, please don't take anything personally I just have seen this a hundred times before. Why PR attracts the flames that he does? I think that it is the nature of humans to flame that which they do not understand. Maybe that is why I am flaming swimmer? If so then I am as guilty as him. But what must not happen is a flame fest that will drain us all of energy. So I will the first man to the plate, Swimmer I am sorry that I don't understand why you have to be a DICK and flame PR for helping you. I only wish that I could just grow with out understanding what is happening but I can’t. So I will continue to waste my time putting my knowledge to use instead of following the path lade by someone else.

 

[TAG-monk]

- - - - - - - - - - - - BANG - - - - - - - - - - - -

on the head

 

[JustATry]

Swimmer - that shit was uncalled for 100%. I was leaning towards being on the cool side with you up until that last post, but you just jumped onto my bad side.

Go post your bullshit somewhere else! I, and I am sure the others here aswell, don't want to read your ignorant comments anymore. You obviously have no desire to understand the plant pysiology side of growing, which we are all trying to calculate. This thread has no benefit to you whatsoever as I can see. So, why don't you go pollute another thread for us!

 

[Swimmer]

What shit was uncalled for???

OK, I'll leave your private thread to the two/three of you. I feel that I have said nothing offensive unless you consider the truth offensive. Regarding your quest for knowledge: I haven't heard anything that I could not have gotten from a first year horticulture student, nor have I been shown examples of stellar results. I was merely pointing out that it is un-necessary to reinvent the wheel and I'm attacked by a gang of paranoid psychos.

btw..If you are refering to my coments about Pod Racers grow as "uncalled for shit", then you should see the countless screwed up grows that I have had over the years. Take it all in stride and keep trucking.