Soil, water, and tea questions

[h.h.]

They say if you add coconut oil to kale it slides off your plate into the trash easier. Pretty much why I accidentally left it in the bag. My attempts at healthy eating. A few of my additives, the coconut and oat flour, came from my dietary exploration.

I'm not real familiar with using nettle. It was pretty popular around the forums a while back. Thought it may be in your area.

I found a statement saying neem used in over 1% can stunt young plants. While there were no citations, it does warrant some caution.
Five pounds neem = 10 cups according to Down to Earth. I'll have 100 gallons of mix. I'm 6 cups short of 1% by volume.
Too much of a good thing can be bad. I liked the way the neem broke down. Overall it seems to have it's advantage when used in moderation. Once digested by the worms...

My concern was with the soy bean meal. Some animals have digestibility problems with soy. Since everything in my mind is a blur and since apples and oranges are both fruit, I associate the feeding of animals to feeding the soil. Studies that I found on the internet suggest that fermentation helps if both cases. Perhaps that's all the neem needs. A little help with digestion.

G didn't make the world complicated, we did. My old friend Owsley told me that. We're all going down the same rabbit hole and it's all the same fn thing. Apples are oranges when you're sitting on the pot.

 

[moose eater]

h.h., I meant to reply re. your comment concerning kelp meal, and in the haze of the rambling, spaced it out.

It's always been my understanding that while kelp meal provides a very limited amount of K (used to be almost 2xs what it is rated at now; from over a 3, down to a 2), it is the micro-nutes that are more beneficial in it. But it has also been those micro-nutes (in what I was taught and believe I've experienced) that can destabilize a plant if applied in excess amounts.

-----------------------------------

Anyway, as CCR once sang, "The night time is the right time..." (*I think others sang that line too, in different songs...)

I got mixing up that latest soil recipe (the modified version of Dank Frank's water-only mix), and the amounts of amendments looked too heavy to me. SO, being a bit of a worrier by profession, I minimally revised it yet again, and went with it, determined to transplant my least valuable mothers first.. Kinda' like settling may 'new worlds' throughout history as penal colonies. Send the most expendable first...

The end volume made up about 2/3 or slightly less than the previous larger batches of my other adjusted mixes.. which helped it to tumble easier, as well as making it easier to add H2O and the added amendments therein.

The re-revised recipe is as follows;

1-1/2 gallons Fishy peat
1-1/2 gallons coir
4-3/4 gallons Pro-mix, Sunshine mix, etc.
3-1/2 gallons coarse perlite
1-1/2 gallons earthworm castings
1-1/2 gallons Ocean Forest or Amazon Bloom
2 cups Alaska humus
1-1/2 cups (Active) Bokashi Bran
1/2-cup alfalfa meal
1/2-cup dry molasses
1 cup kelp meal
1 cup blood meal
1 cup bone meal
1/2-cup Indonesian High P bat guano
2 tbsp. langbeinite
1/4-cup Azomite
1/8-cup Sea90
1/3-cup dolomite (found an older stash of the better stuff)
1/3-cup gypsum
2/3-cup oyster shell flour
1/2-tsp Great White
1 tsp Down to Earth H2O-soluble Mycorrhizae
1/4-cup Jersey Green Sand

(*Mixed and hydrated, it had an unusual smell to it, different than my typical mixes, with the Bokashi shining through it all in the olfactory dept.)

It was hydrated with ~2-2/3 gallons treated with (yes, I probably went over-kill, but bear in mind that I'm using this as a no-bake mix):

Per gallon of H2O

2 tsp Maxi-Crop Seaweed Extract
2 drops Super-thrive Vitamin B
2 tsp 5-1-1 Alaska Fish Emulsion
2 ml Aunt Engy's H-2 Humic Acid
3 ml Golden Goddess Fulvic Acid
1/4 tsp Actinovate
~1/64 tsp (or so) sodium borate

Mix is moist, not wet, barely holds a ball when pressed in the hand, and requires nearly no pressure to break up the ball when pressed.

The mix, once hydrated, tested between 6.2 & 6.4 ph.

A gallon of my well water with the array of amendments above tested at about 6.2.

The Widow Bomb mom is the first victim to go in, and thus far, I hear no screaming from under the light.. Other than my audibly heavy exhale when I nearly dropped the bulb I was changing.. Would've been a $75 (plus freight) "ooops!!" Something I've never done before, seriously.. Late night/early morning, working with too little rest.. and I might break a fairly expensive (albeit well used) light. Caught it on the way down!

Edit: I also added <1/32 tsp of citric acid to each gallon of H2O to bring it to the stated ph above.

 

[moose eater]

They say if you add coconut oil to kale it slides off your plate into the trash easier. Pretty much why I accidentally left it in the bag. My attempts at healthy eating. A few of my additives, the coconut and oat flour, came from my dietary exploration.

I'm not real familiar with using nettle. It was pretty popular around the forums a while back. Thought it may be in your area.

I found a statement saying neem used in over 1% can stunt young plants. While there were no citations, it does warrant some caution.
Five pounds neem = 10 cups according to Down to Earth. I'll have 100 gallons of mix. I'm 6 cups short of 1% by volume.
Too much of a good thing can be bad. I liked the way the neem broke down. Overall it seems to have it's advantage when used in moderation. Once digested by the worms...

My concern was with the soy bean meal. Some animals have digestibility problems with soy. Since everything in my mind is a blur and since apples and oranges are both fruit, I associate the feeding of animals to feeding the soil. Studies that I found on the internet suggest that fermentation helps if both cases. Perhaps that's all the neem needs. A little help with digestion.

G didn't make the world complicated, we did. My old friend Owsley told me that. We're all going down the same rabbit hole and it's all the same fn thing. Apples are oranges when you're sitting on the pot.

Soy beans have been taking a hit in the criticism dept for at least a few years now, in health food circles. Last I heard, the only good soy intake of any amount is that of fermented products, such as tofu or soy sauce that's been... fermented. I guess that's kinda' like 'digested.'

I ate a bunch of soy beans as a youthful frugal hitch-hiker, baked or roasted, and sprinkled with all sort of flavorings/seasonings. That, and Dexedrine.. What every growing boy needed back then if they were planning on making miles and miles each day..

Meanwhile, coconut oil is one of many new 'cure alls' in the health foods and skin care world.. And the price reflects it.

Anyway, it's going on 3:00 A.M. here, and I have a couple more victims to transplant into pots yet.

 

[moose eater]

The maturing GTH#1 is nothing shy of stellar, despite the prolonged ripening, and her putting out fresh white pistils as I tap my toes and fingers, waiting for her to say she's done.

The few folks who've sampled the test buds that were picked a bit earlier have found the GTH#1 and the SLH to be phenomenal. One person described the scent of the GTH#1 as so strong, "it's like kerosene."

3 puffs of the GTH#1 at the Thanksgiving table was all I needed. Probably should've stopped at 2.

The SLH is just about ready to be cut. Her production is down, but she looks really nice. I need to do a better job with making more primary colas when I run her again, if I'm to stick to something resembling the soil they were in during this go 'round....

Widow Bomb is still dragging her butt, where it concerns getting closer to harvest. She's currently getting nothing more than water, with citric acid to adjust to 6.2-ish, fulvic & humic acids in light dosage, and a bit ago, her classic 2000 pots were top-dressed with 3/4 tsp of gypsum, in addition to the earlier top-dressing of 1/2 tsp gypsum and 1/4-tsp langbeinte.

All varieties are impressively frosty.

If I can get someone I trust implicitly to provide a digital camera, and relocate the thread re. removing personal identifying info from pics, and so forth, then take the half-day it'll likely take this connection to up-load pics (even reduced size files) to the internet, then maybe I can bring myself to post a couple pics. It'd be breaking my personal security rules, but the girls look pretty happy.. aside from the WB's tantrums.

 

[moose eater]

A final oddity before turning in for the morning.

All the mothers had been planted about 11-12 or so weeks back, in a revamped bloom soil of the same sort the several varieties are in that are nearly ready for harvest.

It was left-over soil from the most recent bloom formula, and to minimally adjust it to a more suitable veg soil, I'd added a bit of extra Pro-Mix to dilute the amount of P in the bloom soil), a bit more dolomite, and some more kelp and blood meal, all in respective and modest amounts.

Of the five mothers just transplanted (and -all- past needing it), four of the five had LOTS of snow white healthy roots, despite compaction in the root zones. The fifth plant, my prized Ghost Train Haze #1, has far fewer roots than the others, & far less snow white color to them. Her leaves, however, look a bit -less- distressed than the others. She's definitely alive, but I nearly dialed up an ambulance for her!! (just kidding).

I know different plants have different needs/desires, and it -is- possible that during a feeding or hydration, I grabbed the wrong jug(s) of water (unlikely, but possible), but the differences in the 1 plant's roots, versus the other 4, is way noteworthy...

These are the sorts of mysteries I dislike....

 

[DocTim420]

Imo, do not underestimate the benefits of Soybean Meal when NOT used at high levels.

A NPK value of around 7-1-2, this is what you are getting for around 50 cents a pound...

Source: bruninggrainco.com/images/E0080001/Analysis_soybean_meal.pdf

Comparing to other "meals", this table indicates Soybean Meal (SBM) will not win first prize, but it is a contributor to "shoot weight"...

Source: nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.4141/cjps94-035

And finally this table shows 2 things, the effectiveness in controlling root-knot nematodes on tomatoes and that too much Soybean Meal can be no bueno. BTW, rapeseed (aka "linseed meal") is a good item to add (high in lignan...a cellulose material that does not decompose fully) but not at super high levels...

Source: journals.fcla.edu/nematropica/article/download/64246/61914

I currently grind to a powder Neem Seed Meal, Soybean Meal, Linseed Meal, Feather Meal & Blood Meal (for ammonia) at equal amounts (by weight) before blending with the other inputs (for both grow medium and for top dressing). So far, the most expensive is Blood Meal ($75 or so for 50 lb bag).

Also, there appears to be a synergy of sorts when Soybean Meal is combined with chitin material (ie crab & lobster shell meal) and ammonia producers (urea). This study concluded the combination produced an increase in soil enzymatic activities due to stimulated microbial activity. Not a bad thing in my book.

Source: journals.fcla.edu/nematropica/article/download/63988/61656

Rather than think of Soybean Meal as a single input...I think of it as "one among many". Hope this sheds a little light on the mystery of Soybean Meal.

 

[moose eater]

Thanks Doc.

Up here, most things are more expensive due to freight, and even when that's not the real culprit, the vendors tack on increases under that umbrella anyway. Whether blood meal or bone meal or alfalfa or soy, they'll probably want more here.. even in Los Anchorage, where the barges can get much closer.

I think I wrote earlier that I don't recall ever using soybean meal in any mixes. If I did use it, it was a one-time thing, though I do remember very limited use of the alfalfa meal, and had become aware that there are folks doing vegan ferts/amendments in their mixes, avoiding animal sourced stuff such as bone meal and blood meal altogether.

I'll keep your regimen of components in mind in future runs. There's enough stuff to try here (if done individually, so as to control #s of variables in flux at one time) to keep me going 'til my body feeds the worms.

Any ideas as to why the root appearances are so different between the 4 and the GTH#1; why the majority of those 5 would be so happy, but with more stress expressed in their leaves, while the GTH#1 would have more sad looking roots, and less stress in the leaves?

I still have 2 more mothers to attend to (LSD and another Goji OG), so the jury's not out yet as to whether it'll be 6 of 7 showing the happy, happy roots, but I'm wagering they'll be the same as the 4, making it a 6:1 conundrum where root appearances are concerned.

I need to clear the way to play with a variety of seeds, and am currently out of space, but for maybe one more. So killing a mother was in the works anyway, but I'd -really- rather it -not- be the GTH#1...

In a better balanced and more fair world, first in line for the gallows would likely be the LSD and/or the WB. Need to sprout some Terpenado and some Oroblanco (both from Bodhi), and some home-bred stuff from a friend that incorporates THC Bomb, Super Lemon haze, and Strawberry Sour Diesel in its lineage..

 

[moose eater]

Tossing some Advanced Nutrients stuff, some of it unopened replacement bottles I won't be using that have sat for the last year.. Specifically Sensizyme, Grow and Bloom, maybe some others.

Keeping B-52, Aunt Engy's H-2 Humic Acid, & Golden Goddess Fulvic Acid...

Not sure if anyone else has used SLF100; supposed to be an enzymatic 'cleaner' for soilless media (made in Oregon), and was presented as a substitute for Hygrozyme, which has been a preferred product for me for a long time. The SLF100, mostly full, is also headed to the recycling bin.

Re-organizing the shelves to represent a return to more basic organic efforts.

Need to add another mother cupboard, and that will mean the loss of some shelf space, so some of the kibble on the shelves that will become another cupboard will need to find a home; particularly those items that have either no functional purpose for my current needs, or those that have contributed to metaphorical heart-burn.

Getting rid of the last of the old magnetic ballasts (1 HPS, specifically) and the dozen or so HPS and MH bulbs. Likely even paring down on the previous digital ballasts, as I really only need to maintain a couple of them as back-ups. A couple of them are new, never used. Some of the more used digital bulbs will accompany the other stuff to re-use heaven as well.

Wipe it down for prints, then donate it to a nearby self-serve re-use area.

A bit late for spring cleaning, but not too late to get back to the more organic efforts of old. It may not -always- be as productive as some of the combined organic/soluble efforts, but the outcomes, in terms of quality, I believe are preferred.

 

[h.h.]

Sending in an air drop, if the weather holds...

I don't know if you'd find SBM at a feed store without traveling. Not just for vegans. Seed meal has a lot of benefits, be it soybean or oats.

The studies suggesting upper limits of use of these amendments would be affected by rate of decomposition/fermentation.

When quoting the studies on fermentation, I failed to include the term "solid state". A highly aerobic method of fermentation.

Do you have a source of silica in your feeding regiment?

 

[DocTim420]

Feedstores is where I get my linseed & soybean meal, along with foodgrade DE (Fossil Shell Flour--my passive source for silica) and alfalfa meal (not the pellet variety). Some feedstores also carry kelp meal (at about half the price as grow shops), but do to the extremely long decomposition time--I no longer include kelp meal in my regime.

A word of caution though, sometimes crawling critters (usually the exoskeleton variety) will hitch a ride inside the 50 lb bags of seed meal. No worries, I gladly will accept the free source of chitin; placing the infected bag overnight in my chest styled freezer kills the lil buggers. Free chitin!

As for "breakdown" or decomposition time for specialty products, I refer to this chart (take note of the negative Nitrogen provided by Kelp Meal after 28 days of "cooking"...it consumed more N than it provided. Now compare Soybean Meal with the other meals...hmmmm.)

Source: "Estimating N contribution from organic fertilizers and cover crop residues using online Calculators". Dan M. Sullivan and Nick A. Andrews, John M. Luna, and John P.G. McQueen. 2010

website: smallfarms.oregonstate.edu/calculator/research-background

 

[moose eater]

Yep, diversified feed stores that cross over into garden care, are -sometimes- (not always) as reasonable as not, and would typically have soy bean meal; I've seen the DTE brand on a number of store shelves in Anchorage and up in Fairbanks. And things like molasses in various forms, from 5-gal buckets of hydrated, to moderate-sized jugs of dried are available in such places, both as gardening amendments and, primarily, as feed amendments for critters.

For silica, I've been relying on Pro-Tekt; another product that Mr. Rosenthal has sworn by. I tend to use any where from 5 ml/gal at an outset, to 2-3 ml/gal as a maintenance dose, every 2nd or 3rd watering or so, but as with many things, my effort tends to be toward -trying- (not always succeeding) to keep doses smaller, though sometimes more frequent, etc.

But even then, with some things, trying to stay conscious of the amounts in the organic soil mix, and not over-doing their interaction with one component or another added by drenching, still leaves room for error/OD/imbalance.

The tossing of Adv Nute products, in part as a result of their insistence on higher K #s in nearly ALL of their stuff, leading, or helping to contribute, to mg and N lock-outs I've seen with fair regularity toward the end of bloom phase in the past when I've used their stuff alternatively between watering and other amendments.. That particular lock-out helps to bleed away the N issues at ripening, but also deprives a complete state of health.

(Turns to the old Adv. Nute bottles, tosses back Eastwood-like poncho, revealing 6-shooter, and states) "This dirt ain't big enough for the two of us..."

The moms that were placed into the mix the other day, immediately after transplant, are perking up as of last night.

The mothers had all been (for too long) in 6" cylindrical pots. And as stated, the roots had been compacted, but 4 of the initial 5 had wonderfully snowy white roots still. GTH#! had less root mass, and less snow white color. The GTH#1 that's about ready for harvest is loosing a bit of her outer bud density as she continues throwing out fresh pistils, so I'm considering going ahead the end of this week with the 75% rule as it applies to bracts and pistils in determining ripeness.

SLH has a nice even ripeness, with leaves withering in synch with the finishing of flowering and the life cycle.

(I smoked another test bud of the GTH#1 last night, sending me fairly deep into about 2-1/2 hrs or so of sleep, before my routine mid-nite/mid-morning/3:00 A.M. wakening, chores, etc.)

Widow Bomb seems the least satisfied by this last batch of organic soil and limited feed. There's one person who really likes her, but with her attitude of late, and her reactions to various stimuli, despite her having had many a successful go with outstanding results, she may have moved herself into a tie for eradication, with the LSD, and .... maybe... maybe.. even my 20 year old California Indica, despite her incredible olfactory qualities, denseness of trichs, record-holding production, etc.

Sending in an air drop, if the weather holds...

I don't know if you'd find SBM at a feed store without traveling. Not just for vegans. Seed meal has a lot of benefits, be it soybean or oats.

The studies suggesting upper limits of use of these amendments would be affected by rate of decomposition/fermentation.

When quoting the studies on fermentation, I failed to include the term "solid state". A highly aerobic method of fermentation.

Do you have a source of silica in your feeding regiment?

 

[moose eater]

Handy chart, Doc.

I've got similar around here some place, but I don't have to shuffle through too much BS in a stack of unsorted documents to find one that's located on-line, in a convenient & known place. Thanks.

For the larger growing effort in the veggie gardens I often buy 50-lb. bags of blood meal, steamed bone meal (which some folks use not only as a garden amendment, but as feed for the ca. benefit), kelp meal (used it for so long, it's be hard to abandon without a sense of displacement, despite increased salinity and reduced K, and the ability to replace K and micro-nutes with other stuff), pot ash, langbeinte, dolomite (in 40-lb bags), etc.

Yep, made the mistake once of buying bat guano that had been pelletized, and prilled dolomite.. I donate all sorts of that kind of nearly worthless bullshit to the local re-use areas.. Like the Santa Claus of unused garden amendments and outdated lighting..

Still looking forward to, one dark night, driving up to the homeless and street urchin folks on a street corner downtown, rolling down my window and ushering someone over, handing them a huge collection of roaches in a glass jar, then driving off into the night.. tail lights fading out like some B-grade movie.

Feedstores is where I get my linseed & soybean meal, along with foodgrade DE (Fossil Shell Flour--my passive source for silica) and alfalfa meal (not the pellet variety). Some feedstores also carry kelp meal (at about half the price as grow shops), but do to the extremely long decomposition time--I no longer include kelp meal in my regime.

A word of caution though, sometimes crawling critters (usually the exoskeleton variety) will hitch a ride inside the 50 lb bags of seed meal. No worries, I gladly will accept the free source of chitin; placing the infected bag overnight in my chest styled freezer kills the lil buggers. Free chitin!

As for "breakdown" or decomposition time for specialty products, I refer to this chart (take note of the negative Nitrogen provided by Kelp Meal after 28 days of "cooking"...it consumed more N than it provided. Now compare Soybean Meal with the other meals...hmmmm.)

View Image

Source: "Estimating N contribution from organic fertilizers and cover crop residues using online Calculators". Dan M. Sullivan and Nick A. Andrews, John M. Luna, and John P.G. McQueen. 2010

website: smallfarms.oregonstate.edu/calculator/research-background

 

[DocTim420]

Oh don't get me wrong about Kelp Meal...lol; I too was once it's loyal disciple.

Sometimes when I find myself questioning/doubting the usefulness of a certain item/input/process/way-of-doing-this/technique...I simply ask myself, "what would a farmer do?"

It helps me separate "stoner logic" from "sound agronomics".

That said, from what I have discovered, it seems farmers are more likely to use kelp (in the form of soluble seaweed extract) as part of the their foliar spray routine--not so much as a soil amendment. I agree that Kelp Meal does have a lot of good things (enzymes, hormones, nutients, etc) but...$ per pound, imo there are more affordable alternatives available--so, why overpay for something if you don't have too? LOL, my frugality sometimes causes me to "squeak when I walk".

squeak... squeak... squeak... squeak... (as Doc walks across the room, lol).

 

[moose eater]

I use maxi-Crop Seaweed Extract as well, at about 2 tsp/gal. when I use it. Way less frequently than when it was a primary component in the guano teas years ago. And I believe I got better results/consistency when I was mixing their powder concentrate, that I used to buy by the case back then.

The increased salinity and decreased K made me think, though. I assume the increased salinity is a result of less processing/cleaning/rinsing, and the decreased K I attributed either to leeching or (my initial thought) was over-harvesting, leading to younger and younger kelp being taken.

There are persons I know of in remote locations on Islands in the North Pacific off Alaska's Coast, who harvest their own kelp in nearby bays, dry and apply it in crumbled or powdered/pulverized form. I don't know how much rinsing in fresh water they do before drying, or what their numbers are. Doubt they've ever had it analyzed.

The langbeinite offers up a solid and stout K alternative, with high #s, thus due caution. But the other #s on-board (sulfur, mag, etc.) recently taught me its down-fall as well. It's one of those things that I think has to be used in very modest doses, and then anything else that contributes similar attributes has to be taken into account. Add one, reduce or remove another.

 

[h.h.]

Seaweed could probably be buffered with calcium to remove the sodium.
Add some N to it to help it break down.
With that I've never looked at any plant and thought it looked to be short on kelp.
I do use kelp on virgin soil. I've bought exactly 10 pounds of it in my lifetime. The last five was around 10 years ago. All but maybe a pound went into the worm bin.
The stuff is hard to break down. To my memory, the worms didn't rush to feed on it. It has to be mixed in. Even then I don't know that they don't eat around it. At least it's covered in humus and is in the process before being added to the soil.

 

[moose eater]

Y

Seaweed could probably be buffered with calcium to remove the sodium.
Add some N to it to help it break down.
With that I've never looked at any plant and thought it looked to be short on kelp.
I do use kelp on virgin soil. I've bought exactly 10 pounds of it in my lifetime. The last five was around 10 years ago. All but maybe a pound went into the worm bin.
The stuff is hard to break down. To my memory, the worms didn't rush to feed on it. It has to be mixed in. Even then I don't know that they don't eat around it. At least it's covered in humus and is in the process before being added to the soil.

Yeah, kelp meal and liquid extract were both incorporated into my very first organic media recipe, and feed schedule. Just used it since, and I guess the outcomes were (once upon a time) predictable.

The SLH dies tonight. Shortly thereafter, the GTH#!, and we'll all be taking a water break up the trail a ways when the WB finally decides it's her time.

Up later than typical last night, picking someone up in town. My energy levels don't regenerate easily when I screw with my schedule anymore. Spend the day feeling like I ate acid the night before or something... No chance of feeling any younger, is there?

I need to finish some soilless mix, and get on with some other projects. But a nap sounds real inviting right now, so maybe a puff, and a test of one of the pillows, to see if it's as soft as it was an hour or so ago..

 

[h.h.]

Some vitamin B for the O.G.
Super B complex. Not on an empty stomach. Over 50, B12 is mandatory.

You'll be running with the moose. Calling them by name. Or was that when you did eat acid the night before.

It will help with your energy level.

 

[moose eater]

Some vitamin B for the O.G.
Super B complex. Not on an empty stomach. Over 50, B12 is mandatory.

You'll be running with the moose. Calling them by name. Or was that when you did eat acid the night before.View Image
It will help with your energy level.

We eat enough red meat I figured the B was unnecessary. When I did try it, I had some minor to moderate skin reactions, rosy cheeks and all. A day or so looking like Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer is survivable, and maybe even fun, if timed correctly.

I currently take D3 at 2,000 IU/day (*the only supplement a former Doc believed in), as well as 600mg of alpha lipoic acid 1x/day as a preventative nerve thing. Other than that, 1 Rx 2x's daily, and a heart-healthy 81 mg aspirin each morning, to prevent someone from having to hook up a defibrillator to my chest... The news each day is all the shock I can tolerate.

I think a lot of the malaise is simply not having more than a couple or three good nights' sleep in any given year for the last several decades. And late-night rendezvous in town don't help that. Maybe I'll start to charge a late-night transport surcharge??

But I'll still be dragging my ass when I spend the extra money.. Hmm..

 

[h.h.]

In many folks over 50, their stomach acids don't process the vitamin B12 in their food. There is a decrease in hydrochloric acid.
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-Consumer/

B 1,3,4,7, and 9 are the ones to avoid if you have rashes and such.
https://www.livestrong.com/article/485790-side-effects-of-vitamin-b-hives-rash-heat/

 

[moose eater]

In many folks over 50, their stomach acids don't process the vitamin B12 in their food. There is a decrease in hydrochloric acid.
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-Consumer/

B 1,3,4,7, and 9 are the ones to avoid if you have rashes and such.
https://www.livestrong.com/article/485790-side-effects-of-vitamin-b-hives-rash-heat/

I'll see if I can score a small bottle of the straight B-12, and see if it aids in energy, or if I return to the land of red-faced-ness.

A seltzer water away from doing this morning's chores this evening... Then a nice, heavy, potent Imperial Stout.