So the EPA Contacted me today....

[smokeetreatz]

Any product that is sold as a pest control, will be vetted by the E.P.A. Its there job to go into stores and read labels, but strange as this may sound, its to protect ALL OF YOU! the rich cats who sell their poisons have to jump thru so many hoops to get their product on the shelves. i have successfully launched and ran a small bio based pest control company, and it took 6-9 months of labels and paperwork to get on the shelves. The people that helped me the most were the federal and state E.P.A employees, really helpful people. They are regulating the industry, so when you buy a product, it does not KILL you, sorta like in the old days with DDT. Unregulated business practices would resemble China or Mexico, where the health of the citizens is of little or no concern. If someone wants to sell a product in our country, you have to do your homework and understand how the game is played, or you will be shut down, like it or not. If the product OGBioWar had been properly labeled, packaged, research, this would never have happen. this has nothing to do with freedom of speech, by the way, but protecting us from the Bayer corporations and the like, bottling DDT and other toxic chemicals. this is a very amusing thread.

 

[h.h.]

REREGISTRATION ELIGIBILITY DOCUMENT
SILICON DIOXIDE AND SILICA GEL
LIST D
CASE 4081

For end-use products containing silicon dioxide as
the sole active ingredient and which are used
commercially, the following statement is required:
"Wear a suitable dust mask approved by
NIOSH/MSHA

http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/old_reds/4081red.pdf

My papa said son don't let the man get you do what he done to me

Believe it or not, the government does not want you to fail. There is nothing in it for them if you do.

 

[Microbeman]

Something you may not wish to know is that at least one of those ingredients is made by DOW.

 

[h.h.]

"Better living through chemistry" LOL
I'm thinking DE would be covered in this report by the silica dioxide references. It's the silica that kills the bugs.
Honestly I don't think they hang out long enough to get killed. They just don't like it. They leave.

 

[Granger2]

Smokeetreatz,
OGBioWar IS properly labeled. It makes no claims. No claims on the website either. The claims made were by ESO on his website. -granger

 

[h.h.]

Apparently according to MM's post, it does have pesticidal qualities. There are also possible environmental hazards.
At the end of the tea recipe on the OGBW site, there is mention of using OGBioWar full strength for controlling pests.
Sort of a back alley way to advertise a pesticide, while avoiding costs for testing.
At ESO labeled it honestly, just not legally.
I think not mentioning possible hazards may have been an oversight.
I wanna know if it's going to kill my bees.
They're not really mine.
They'll still be dead.


I'm going to raise the concern of introducing an invasive microbial species that will out compete or even produce toxins detrimental to other microbes. Is such a scenario possible? With the advent of all these designer blends, I can see the plausibility of destroying the microbial world as we know it.

 

[Granger2]

Here's the only mention on the OGBW website. Nothing on the packaging that I have except a list of strains.

"If you are battling an existing pest or pathogen problem, use at full strength, without diluting. Pour tea directly in to crown and foliar as well."

Cap is not avoiding cost. He's begun and is going thru the labeling procedure.

Some of the strains are labeled by other companies that are selling them for bug and pathogen killing with legal labeling such as BT, BTi [Mosquito Dunks, Gnatrol], [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beavaria bassiane[/FONT] [Botanigard], [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Metarhizium anisopliae[/FONT] [Met 52].
-granger

 

[h.h.]

Here's the only mention on the OGBW website. Nothing on the packaging that I have except a list of strains.

"If you are battling an existing pest or pathogen problem, use at full strength, without diluting. Pour tea directly in to crown and foliar as well."

Cap is not avoiding cost. He's begun and is going thru the labeling procedure.

Some of the strains are labeled by other companies that are selling them for bug and pathogen killing with legal labeling such as BT, BTi [Mosquito Dunks, Gnatrol], [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beavaria bassiane[/FONT] [botanigard], [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Metarhizium anisopliae[/FONT] [Met 52].
-granger

Then I take it that they've already been tested, in which case it should simply be procedure. A little stress perhaps, but if it were that easy, I'd be selling it.
Seems our downfall may be in the testing. Too much money for a small guy. We could be cutting our throats somewhat in that regard. Double edged sword and all that. There's always change to be made. Sometimes all it takes is identifying the problem.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Lots of products are caught in this trap--

Fossil Shell Flour (food grade DE marketed as a food supplement) is always cheaper than the exact same product packaged as "diatomaceous earth pesticide".

Labeling rules kinda evens out the playing field for everyone too, insuring everyone is playing with the same rules. There are costs to have a product label approved...and if a company ignores that rule ($$$ savings) then they have an unfair advantage when compared to their competitors that already paid the man. Its all part of being in business....gotta pay to play.

Cheers!

 

[h.h.]

None food grade is cheaper than food grade.

 

[ct guy2]

I can get food grade DE locally in 50 lb bags for around $27. It's not expensive.

Also, anything with spinosad will kill bees and should only be used indoors in my opinion. We need our pollinators!

 

[EclipseFour20]

Yep, I paid $28 for 50 lb Fossil Shell Flour this past January (no sales tax), 50 lb bag of DE at the farm supply is north of $40. A 50 lb bag of Sea-90 (sea minerals) packaged as "fertilizer" is $50, but a 50 lb bag of the same stuff labeled "nutrient for livestock" (food) is $40.

Seldom is the "food grade" variety of the same product more expensive...at least that has not been my experience.

Cheers!

 

[smokeetreatz]

Smokeetreatz,
OGBioWar IS properly labeled. It makes no claims. No claims on the website either. The claims made were by ESO on his website. -granger

Making a claim on a product to do any one of those makes it a pesticidal claim. Specifically, for the Diatomaceous Earth product, your website states “These actions combined make Diatomaceous Earth a very effective natural, and organic pest control product.” That is a pesticidal claim which makes that product a pesticide, which means it need to be registered as a pesticide with EPA. If it is not registered with EPA, it is an unregistered pesticide, which makes it a violation of the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act.

seems to contradict the above statement, but i have not seem the labels, but making any claims of pest control, whether on labels, advertising will necessitate following epa protocols.

 

[h.h.]

25 pounds $8 @ O'Reillys.

 

[MrGoodBudz]

Apparently according to MM's post, it does have pesticidal qualities. There are also possible environmental hazards.
At the end of the tea recipe on the OGBW site, there is mention of using OGBioWar full strength for controlling pests.
Sort of a back alley way to advertise a pesticide, while avoiding costs for testing.
At ESO labeled it honestly, just not legally.
I think not mentioning possible hazards may have been an oversight.
I wanna know if it's going to kill my bees.
They're not really mine.
They'll still be dead.


I'm going to raise the concern of introducing an invasive microbial species that will out compete or even produce toxins detrimental to other microbes. Is such a scenario possible? With the advent of all these designer blends, I can see the plausibility of destroying the microbial world as we know it.

I appologize for going off topic. Please don't kill your bees! Call a beekeeper and have them removed and relocated. This is the environmental and globaly economic approach to your naturally occurring issue.

 

[h.h.]

I appologize for going off topic. Please don't kill your bees! Call a beekeeper and have them removed and relocated. This is the environmental and globaly economic approach to your naturally occurring issue.

No apologies... No beekeeper is getting my bees. Don't wanna kill them either. Just want to make sure products I buy don't kill them. Or rather products that other people buy. I have no need for pesticides.

 

[dank.frank]

25 pounds $8 @ O'Reillys.

Calcined DE is not the same nor does it serve the same purpose as powdered or food grade DE...

fwiw.



dank.Frank

 

[Avinash.miles]

Calcined DE is not the same nor does it serve the same purpose as powdered or food grade DE...

fwiw.



dank.Frank

explain please, seems like a good piece of info if explained fully
thanks frank

 

[h.h.]

Calcined DE is not the same nor does it serve the same purpose as powdered or food grade DE...

fwiw.



dank.Frank

Do me a favor and don't tell the bugs that. They don't seem to know.

 

[dank.frank]

Calcined DE is a product that is used in many different applications to absorb moisture, most often. Oil spill clean up, cat liter, pool and commercial filtering, etc.

It is a hard, granule - small pieces. It works some what more like perlite or an aeration amendment because of it's particle size - but I stopped using the stuff because of it's weight. It is makes the medium heavy. It also retains water in a very odd sort of way that leaves the center of a container wet while the side and top have dried out.

I also experienced an odd spotting on my leaves when using it as a full replacement for perlite, that appeared similar to a calcium def. but was not. It was more so a burn / toxicity of some sort...even when heavily screened and rinsed before usage...

Now, food grade DE is fully powdered - pulverized....dust. It actually contributes more readily usable amounts of silica to the plant, increases CEC, and also acts as an aid to water retention in the soil, but it is much better at all these functions as it is more equally dispersed and in smaller particle sizes that are more readily broken down. It is absolutely ineffective as a pesticide once it becomes moistened or when it is wet. For it to be optimally utilized it needs to stay dry. It works rather well when lightly dusting the leaves with it to kill bugs - but it easily rinses with a good rain. I don't know that it has any true impact on bugs when it is added to the soil as an amendment...

How effective calcined DE is at pest control, after being heated to 1000 degrees, I'm not certain of either. Part of what makes DE works is the physical structure of a it, acting as a razor blade to put cuts into pests and the powder to aid in drying them out. When it is processed into a larger particle size, I have to wonder if it still effective in the same manner, as the physical shape is no longer the same...

Anther aspect to consider is the pH of a food grade product being around 7.5 where once it is calcined it rises to around 8.75...

I stopped recommending that people utilize calcined DE at all - but I still love food grade, as a soil amendment, if for no other reason than it's high CEC of around 32cmol+/kg. When paired with a high calcium soil, you have a massive amount of exchange sites which aids and benefits nutrient retention...



dank.Frank