Should we Peoplelize marijuana

[Maria_Vanessa]

9. Can There Be A "Mixed" Social System?

There can be no social system which is a mixture of Individualism and Collectivism. Either individual rights are recognized in a society, or they are not recognized. They cannot be half-recognized.
What frequently happens, however, is that a society based on Individualism does not have the courage, integrity and intelligence to observe its own principle consistently in every practical application. Through ignorance, cowardice, or mental sloppiness, such a society passes laws and accepts regulations which contradict its basic principle and violate the rights of man. To the extent of such violations, society perpetrates injustices, evils, and abuses. If the breaches are not corrected, society collapses into the chaos of Collectivism.
When you see a society that recognizes man's rights in some of its laws but not in others, do not hail it as a "mixed " system and do not conclude that a compromise between basic principles, opposed in theory, can be made to work in practice. Such a society is not working; it is merely disintegrating. Disintegration takes time. Nothing falls to pieces immediately -- neither a human body nor a human society.

http://www.laissez-fairerepublic.com/textbook.htm

I'm sorry, but, what are you talking about? I didn't see anything in your post regarding cannabis, so can you expain what youare trying to contribute?

These are good points. There are two distinct sides to this issue, and I find it difficult to believe that there is a chance of legislating one without infringing on the other.

What's to say, though, that allowing private entities to produce and distribute Cannabis with little to no regulation would prevent those places of Medical Research from producing effective cannabinoid-based medicines? Wouldn't deregulation (ie no nationalization) help both sides of the Cannabis industry? (The two sides being recreational and medicinal-These questions are aimed at no one person..)

If, say, Johns Hopkins didn't have to jump through so many hoops with the FDA and the like, isn't it reasonable to assume that more research would get done?

We also forgot one more thing. That is hemp. When we add hemp into the mix, it is the side of cannabis that could most likely be nationalized. But realistically, I think it would be turned into an agronomic crop like cotton and soybean and corn.

Realistically, regulation and deregulation are both inevitable; and I think both would help all three sides of the cannabis industry. The general voting public will want regulation it would be enacted by the government on private and public entities regardless of they are producing for industrial, medical or recreational industries. But, eventually and inevitably, regulations would be stricken and deregulation will occur.

Mainly, I am referring to general regulations that protect the public from unscruplous growers using pesticides and causing enviromental damage and damage to human consuming such products and to any flora and fauna. In addition, you'll have people who will want to produce cannabis strictly to get rich by ripping people off. Also, you may see some towns, cities or states that would only want to produce medically or industrial cannabis on large scales. Again, as I said if anyone read over it, eventually and inevitably, regulations would be stricken and deregulation will occur.

Maybe someone with a medical background could help out, but I was thinking it would be cheaper and easier from a regulatory angle, to produce cannabis in its natural plant form instead of trying to produce cannabinoid based medicines. With what you mention above about FDA regulation, in addition, the equipment alone for producing such medicines is ungodly expensive. Not every hospital may be able to afford to produce their own medicine and thus would have to rely on bigger and more well-funded hospitals and limiting who could produce such medicines. I'm thinking that the fear of libel lawsuits would be enough to scare hosipital in making sure that research was performed correctly.

I picture recreational cannabis to evolve into something that is similiar to the alcholic beverage industry, but not the tobacco industry. The reason why I mention this is because cannabis can be consumed through various means other cigarette and pipe methods. These industries are fairly regulated, but people are still allowed to produce their own homemade alcohol. I think the recreational cannabis industry will evolve in this way.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

This is solely my mental exercise in trying to deal with the world problem, by using the sale of mmj to establish a safety net for the local people, not the government.

there's a train heading in our direction

and it would behoove all of us to consider options

to be frank, the recovery isn't working

despite having a trillion dollars pumped into it

you may not consider it your problem

this would keep control of marijuana for the people and the growers

not big business, or the government

PS..I do agree that mmj should be separated from recreational

 

[Texicannibus]

It sounds like a hippie commune ... your land is my land ... my land is your land .. lol

 

[MarquisBlack]

Maria_Vanessa, constructive post as always. I owe you rep.

there's a train heading in our direction

and it would behoove all of us to consider options

I feel you on that. However, I think you may have had less raised eyebrows had you not used the word "nationalize". (What with health care and the oil industry.. People are sensitive to socialist concepts, rightfully so)

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Maria_Vanessa

Maybe someone with a medical background could help out, but I was thinking it would be cheaper and easier from a regulatory angle, to produce cannabis in its natural plant form instead of trying to produce cannabinoid based medicines. With what you mention above about FDA regulation, in addition, the equipment alone for producing such medicines is ungodly expensive. Not every hospital may be able to afford to produce their own medicine and thus would have to rely on bigger and more well-funded hospitals and limiting who could produce such medicines. I'm thinking that the fear of libel lawsuits would be enough to scare hosipital in making sure that research was performed correctly.

I picture recreational cannabis to evolve into something that is similiar to the alcholic beverage industry, but not the tobacco industry. The reason why I mention this is because cannabis can be consumed through various means other cigarette and pipe methods. These industries are fairly regulated, but people are still allowed to produce their own homemade alcohol. I think the recreational cannabis industry will evolve in this way.

I would certainly recommend using a vaporizer, rather than inhaling any tars. lungs of heavy marijuana smokers are likely to look much like the lungs of cigarette smokers after a while. not a pretty picture.

the high's a little different, but then again you aren't getting the impact of the toxins.

I grew up in an area that had the largest coke mill in the world

coke is what remains after the distillation of coal

it burns very hot and is used to smelt steel

the list of carcinogens that are distilled from coal is quite long

benzene, toluene, napthalene, are a few

respiratory problems abound in the area

do everything you can to save your lungs

it's the pits when you are old and can't get enough oxygen

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Maria_Vanessa, constructive post as always. I owe you rep.



I feel you on that. However, I think you may have had less raised eyebrows had you not used the word "nationalize". (What with health care and the oil industry.. People are sensitive to socialist concepts, rightfully so)

Thanks

within seconds of submitting the thread I changed nationalize to peoplelize, but the title wouldn't change. I PM'd DD yesterday, to change the title..sorry about that..my apologies to one and all

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

Maria_Vanessa, constructive post as always. I owe you rep.

I feel you on that. However, I think you may have had less raised eyebrows had you not used the word "nationalize". (What with health care and the oil industry.. People are sensitive to socialist concepts, rightfully so)

@MarquisBlack I owe you and SeniorBuzz rep because I like talking to rational pople that are able express their opinions and look at multiple sides of an issue in a rational manner. I think most people don't know what the words socialist, communist, capitalist really mean, because those words are thrown and kicked around like balls at a soccer game.

@SeniorBuzz

I think the recovery is coming along. Maybe you feel the same way as I do, but I don't believe that money should have been pumped in by both the Bush and Obama administrations. The problem is that as a whole, the government and the majority of the citizens in this country were spending money that only existed on paper in the form of promissory notes, contracts, car notes, credit applications, etc. We spent money in this way for almost a decade. So, the only thing that is honestly and truthfully helping us recover is time. And it'll probably take up to a half a decade for the country to recover.

That means that houses that people could never afford in the first place go into foreclosesure. Businesses that used credit to keep themselves operating shut down. Cars, jewerly, art and everything else gets repossessed. Everything gets righted, but it is painful. I know, I was laid off when the restaurant I worked for shut down and he was staying afloat through credit cards and writing IOUs to his paper and grocery suppliers.

I do consider this my problem because I am part of the future of this country. And I do care but it gets frustrating that people get so sucked into this black and white view of the world. It's like decisive politics has brainwashed everyone. Most people just want their party to win, no one gives a damn about anything else.

Sorry about that. Back to cannabis! Industrial hemp and MMJ could be potential answers to what you are proposing. And I really wish more people would start supporting and lobbying on behalf of hemp. Alot of jobs could be created if there were local industries for both. Everyone in this thread could name several industries that would benefit people.

Recreational marijuana, I feel as though it is still too polarizing a subject, and is probably the reason why advancement for MMJ hasn't taken off as it should.

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

Maria_Vanessa I would certainly recommend using a vaporizer, rather than inhaling any tars. lungs of heavy marijuana smokers are likely to look much like the lungs of cigarette smokers after a while. not a pretty picture.

the high's a little different, but then again you aren't getting the impact of the toxins.

I grew up in an area that had the largest coke mill in the world

coke is what remains after the distillation of coal

it burns very hot and is used to smelt steel

the list of carcinogens that are distilled from coal is quite long

benzene, toluene, napthalene, are a few

respiratory problems abound in the area

do everything you can to save your lungs

it's the pits when you are old and can't get enough oxygen

Thank you for the information. After I quit smoking cigarettes, I was amazed at how much I began to hate the smell of cigarette smoke. I feel the same away with burning cannabis as well. Even though cannabis does have natural healing properties, the act of combustion and inhaling those fumes is not healthy at all.

I will be buying myself a vaporizer when I save up.

Thanks for a thought provoking thread SeniorBuzz! If cannabis consumers want to have a leading role in making cannabis available to all, then we as a community need to start discussing these issues and educating ouselves or someone else, like a politician or a textile or pharceutical lobbyist, will.

 

[MarquisBlack]

I very much share Terence Mckenna's take on this issue.. He was always thinking ahead of his time-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ss4CStOBPw&feature=related
(From 9:00 on)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKgjunVfaFA&feature=related
(From 0:00-2:00)

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Thank you for the information. After I quit smoking cigarettes, I was amazed at how much I began to hate the smell of cigarette smoke. I feel the same away with burning cannabis as well. Even though cannabis does have natural healing properties, the act of combustion and inhaling those fumes is not healthy at all.

I will be buying myself a vaporizer when I save up.

Thanks for a thought provoking thread SeniorBuzz! If cannabis consumers want to have a leading role in making cannabis available to all, then we as a community need to start discussing these issues and educating ouselves or someone else, like a politician or a textile or pharceutical lobbyist, will.

Best vaporizer on the market, at least the cheapest, is a Sear Heavy Duty Heat Gun ($120) and one of Gilligan's adapters (?)..tell him I sent you and maybe he'll throw in some turkey roasting bags, and a few nylon ties

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Marquis Black@SeniorBuzz

I think the recovery is coming along. Maybe you feel the same way as I do, but I don't believe that money should have been pumped in by both the Bush and Obama administrations. The problem is that as a whole, the government and the majority of the citizens in this country were spending money that only existed on paper in the form of promissory notes, contracts, car notes, credit applications, etc. We spent money in this way for almost a decade. So, the only thing that is honestly and truthfully helping us recover is time. And it'll probably take up to a half a decade for the country to recover.

That means that houses that people could never afford in the first place go into foreclosesure. Businesses that used credit to keep themselves operating shut down. Cars, jewerly, art and everything else gets repossessed. Everything gets righted, but it is painful. I know, I was laid off when the restaurant I worked for shut down and he was staying afloat through credit cards and writing IOUs to his paper and grocery suppliers.

I do consider this my problem because I am part of the future of this country. And I do care but it gets frustrating that people get so sucked into this black and white view of the world. It's like decisive politics has brainwashed everyone. Most people just want their party to win, no one gives a damn about anything else.

Sorry about that. Back to cannabis! Industrial hemp and MMJ could be potential answers to what you are proposing. And I really wish more people would start supporting and lobbying on behalf of hemp. Alot of jobs could be created if there were local industries for both. Everyone in this thread could name several industries that would benefit people.

Recreational marijuana, I feel as though it is still too polarizing a subject, and is probably the reason why advancement for MMJ hasn't taken off as it should.

MB, I don't know if you quite understand, the depth of despair in the housing market. there's an enormous overhang of homes that banks haven't foreclosed on. because of the expense, and even if they foreclosed, they wouldn't be able to do anything with the home. and investigations are being rumored about NACA...they are the ones who have been pouring our money out to mostly poor minorities. Fannie and Freddie are hiding up to a trillion dollars of public debt that's yet to be uncovered, or accounted for.

In addition to the stimulus, $14 Billion Dollars (of borrowed money) is being pumped into the economy through the Census.

Foreclosures http://bit.ly/72n3mJ

Here's a little something I just put together

FRAUD http://bit.ly/cZ6eUj

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

MB, I don't know if you quite understand, the depth of despair in the housing market. there's an enormous overhang of homes that banks haven't foreclosed on. because of the expense, and even if they foreclosed, they wouldn't be able to do anything with the home. and investigations are being rumored about NACA...they are the ones who have been pouring our money out to mostly poor minorities. Fannie and Freddie are hiding up to a trillion dollars of public debt that's yet to be uncovered, or accounted for.

Foreclosures http://bit.ly/72n3mJ

Here's a little something I just put together

FRAUD http://bit.ly/cZ6eUj

In addition, I also worry about the structural integrity and potential repair costs with these homes as well and how it will factor into the market value of these homes. I know there was been news about drywall from China that has been used in recent home construction. In addition, I know and have read about foreclosed homes that were vandalized for the copper plumbing and wiring being completely ripped out of these homes.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

In addition, I also worry about the structural integrity and potential repair costs with these homes as well and how it will factor into the market value of these homes. I know there was been news about drywall from China that has been used in recent home construction. In addition, I know and have read about foreclosed homes that were vandalized for the copper plumbing and wiring being completely ripped out of these homes.

Exactly, it's like a nightmare that is playing out right before our very eyes.

many of the luxurious foreclosed homes in Las Vegas
were stripped of anything of value

it's even worse in the poor areas of the country

I received an email, that had pictures of Hiroshima, then, and now

and Detroit, then, and now

opposite sides of the coin

The Federal Deficit http://bit.ly/aweXpC

The M3 money supply fell at an annual rate of 9.6%
in the first three months of 2010
http://bit.ly/cpIXEh

The stock of money fell from $14.2 trillion to $13.9 trillion,
in the three months to April,
amounting to an annual rate of contraction of 9.6%

it's the Perfect Storm

and yes, this does involve marijuana

 

[SeniorBuzz]

I was just thinking that perhaps we could work it out,
that at a predetermined set of economic indicators,
somewhere down the road,
the mmj dispensary would be turned over to the employees
to run for themselves, profitably

what really matters in life is doing something you love to do
and if you can get paid for it, all the better

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

I was just thinking that perhaps we could work it out,
that at a predetermined set of economic indicators,
somewhere down the road,
the mmj dispensary would be turned over to the employees
to run for themselves, profitably

what really matters in life is doing something you love to do
and if you can get paid for it, all the better

Hmm.. Interesting. What would happen if the dispensary became unprofitable after it was handed over to them?

Maybe what could be a better possibility is if patient were on some sort of advisory board, to give them a voice and make sure their needs are still being met?

 

[Texicannibus]

/cough free market ...

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Hmm.. Interesting. What would happen if the dispensary became unprofitable after it was handed over to them?

Maybe what could be a better possibility is if patient were on some sort of advisory board, to give them a voice and make sure their needs are still being met?

Marijuana will always be profitable, as long as there are people like me, who want to "vaporize" to their pleasure, but are so busy with other things, that they won't grow their own. there are a lot of me.

the indoor grow would naturally be organic, or primo, in the market.

patients are guaranteed the lowest price consistently. if it happened
to become a prescription, it would most likely be all but free, to the patient, insurance will pick up the bill.

good discussion, bounce around ideas

 

[White-rhino]

I still think people should be calling for legalization then tax it, like they have been calling for, but then stiff the fuckers on the tax. Gives small time growers an edge to fly under the radar, stiffing the looters and moochers out of their undeserved cut of the loot, while at the same time making a decent profit. But thats just me.

And its the American way

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

Putting together everything we have discussed so far (and please correct me if I am wrong):

As far as MMJ:

* It should be nationalized, but with local growers working directly with medical dispensaries.

* When the dispensaries meets a certain economic criteria, it then can be turned over to employees.

* Patients are guaranteed the lowest price consistently.

* If it happened to become a prescription, it would most likely be all but free, to the patient, insurance will pick up the bill.

As far as recreational cannabis:

* People growing for their own use are left alone.
-- Did we kick around ideas besides this?

As far as industrial hemp:
-- Did we kick around ideas besides this, as well?

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Putting together everything we have discussed so far (and please correct me if I am wrong):

As far as MMJ:

* It should be nationalized, but with local growers working directly with medical dispensaries.

* When the dispensaries meets a certain economic criteria, it then can be turned over to employees.

* Patients are guaranteed the lowest price consistently.

* If it happened to become a prescription, it would most likely be all but free, to the patient, insurance will pick up the bill.

As far as recreational cannabis:

* People growing for their own use are left alone.
-- Did we kick around ideas besides this?

As far as industrial hemp:
-- Did we kick around ideas besides this, as well?

MV, make that peoplelized

we haven't discussed recreational cannabis

but the plan, would be, if and when cannabis becomes legal
it would be the growers who would be involved
(we don't want all of that talent to go to waste)
not big business, or the politicians

claim cannabis for the people
It's the only way that I can see
to keep people who love to grow
in the game, triumphing over
the likes of big business, and politicians

I can see a benefit package valued at around $40/hr
we are in a period of declining wages
the hourly wage would be set relatively low
as just having a job is gaining more importance