Should Trump pardon Obama?

[Gypsy Nirvana]

- Of course - whatever the accusations/charges are concerning this Obamagate - they are yet to be presented in any court of law - so are unproven at this time - and all who might be accused - are innocent until proven guilty - time will tell - if there is anything illegal in what Obama did - if indeed it ever makes it to a court that is - and I don't see that at this time -

- That's the reality - as it stands - from what I can fathom - perhaps you know better?

I asked for reality not more fantasy
From your article :
The unproven narrative holds that Obama, along with his then-Vice President Joe Biden, former FBI Director James Comey, multiple intelligence services in both the US and abroad, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, and a handful of Ukrainian oligarchs, planted a phoney theory that Trump was colluding with Russia in order to win the 2016 election. Once planted, the theory was allegedly picked up by members of the anti-Trump "deep state" in the US and used to spy on and frame members of Trump's inner circle.

 

[h.h.]

- Of course - whatever the accusations/charges are concerning this Obamagate - they are yet to be presented in any court of law - so are unproven at this time - and all who might be accused - are innocent until proven guilty - time will tell - if there is anything illegal in what Obama did - if indeed it ever makes it to a court that is - and I don't see that at this time -

- That's the reality - as it stands - from what I can fathom - perhaps you know better?

But let’s keep repeating the bullshit. There is no “if”. We could do a whole story on “if” . If I, if you , if they...It’s just bullshit with a conjunction.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

- Well - it is in the news enough to get a member here to make a thread about it h.h. - and I don't have a crystal ball to tell me 'if' there is anything to it - or not -

- time will tell - as it usually does -

But let’s keep repeating the bullshit. There is no “if”. We could do a whole story on “if” . If I, if you , if they...It’s just bullshit with a conjunction.

 

[h.h.]

If I started a thread about unicorns, would they be real?

Trump puts a lot of if’s out there and folks repeat them. It amounts to a lot of slanderous nonsense. Lots of disinformation clouding the conversation.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

- You are welcome to start a thread on unicorns - if that is your want - but you would be hard pressed to convince most people of their reality - although you might find some who believe as you do -

- Current affairs - about whats in the news - as this Obamagate is - will naturally be discussed - since it is a topic of interest - to some - As to whether or not these accusations hold any water - we will have to look to the future - to have any resolution on the matter -

If I started a thread about unicorns, would they be real?

Trump puts a lot of if’s out there and folks repeat them. It amounts to a lot of slanderous nonsense. Lots of disinformation clouding the conversation.

 

[packerfan79]

Eight years of Obama in office and not ONE of his advisors was indicted or charged with a crime.

I guess the GOP should have had a few more hearings on Benghazi or Fast and Furious. Also when Trump was elected the GOP quit gaslighting on Benghazi. Shows those hearings were nothing more then a dog and pony show for the GOP.

The GOP couldn't get Obama when he was in office and now with less then 6 months to go before the next election does anybody here believe Obama will be convicted of anything besides the usual suspects here?

Keep dreaming Packer.

The information is out there. It's been declassified. It's not a question, the Obama administration is the most corrupt administration in at least my lifetime.

The fact that the law enforcement, and intelligence agencies that set up Trump, and Flynn with Obama's blessing, didn't take down Obama is quite an entertaining defense. Just because he was protected by people who were just as corrupt as he was, doesn't exonerate anything.

You can pull that blue blanket over your head and hide, doesn't change the facts. I know you don't do facts, so keep going with your conspiracy theories.

Everything they accused Trump of, they were actually doing.

It's quite funny how unhinged you guys have become. I do enjoy the desperation on full display.

 

[h.h.]

- You are welcome to start a thread on unicorns - if that is your want - but you would be hard pressed to convince most people of their reality - although you might find some who believe as you do -

- Current affairs - about whats in the news - as this Obamagate is - will naturally be discussed - since it is a topic of interest - to some - As to whether or not these accusations hold any water - we will have to look to the future - to have any resolution on the matter -

I’ve already started a thread about nothing, this is just another one. An amplification of the trump disinformation campaign. The dumbing down of America.

I’m not asking for deletion or trying to shame you for allowing it. You allow me to come in here and point it out for the bullshit it is. That’s all I’m doing. Everything is based on “if”. There is no logic to the argument. No real facts.

 

[Amynamous]

None of the nonsense regarding “obamagate” amounts to anything significant, and certainly not criminal. No charges or indictments by any law enforcement organizations and no active criminal investigations either. Other former US presidents have done much, much worse things in my opinion, and none have been charged, although their co-conspirators have been charged, and sometimes pardoned(thinking of Bush Sr here).
I think the bigger question is whether Joe and/or Mario will pardon trump should trump lose in November, AND, another question is, will trump get to keep his secret service detail in prison, should he not receive a pardon. The feds have 19 sealed indictments stemming from Mueller’s investigation and the state of New York has multiple criminal investigations into trump as well. Many of those sealed indictments are believed to center on trump and his family.

 

[h.h.]

Everything is done with a wink and a nod. Very few handshakes and signed agreements. Other than repeating Wikileaks, which by then was public information, trump was hands off. Not conducting an investigation was not illegal. Nor was appointing Barr. Perhaps very unethical, but ethics aren’t law.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Yes - 'tis true that no other POTUS has had to go to jail for their crimes - even if they have wrongly invaded another nation and killed millions of people (GWBush with Iraq) - still no jail - Watergate was the closest one came to incarceration - but Nixon just resigned - then walked - so even if Trump's claims against Obama are true - and are proved to be so in a court of law - I don't see him being imprisoned - 'cos US Presidents are seen to be above the law - kinda similar to the British monarchy - these 'elites' can literally get away with cold blooded murder -

None of the nonsense regarding “obamagate” amounts to anything significant, and certainly not criminal. No charges or indictments by any law enforcement organizations and no active criminal investigations either. Other former US presidents have done much, much worse things in my opinion, and none have been charged, although their co-conspirators have been charged, and sometimes pardoned(thinking of Bush Sr here).
I think the bigger question is whether Joe and/or Mario will pardon trump should trump lose in November, AND, another question is, will trump get to keep his secret service detail in prison, should he not receive a pardon. The feds have 19 sealed indictments stemming from Mueller’s investigation and the state of New York has multiple criminal investigations into trump as well. Many of those sealed indictments are believed to center on trump and his family.

 

[h.h.]

Saddam Hussein was a Reagan blunder that needed cleaning up. Iraq was key politically and logistically to any fight on terrorism. It was the ways and the means used in the cleanup that comes into question. The intent was just.

Bush’s mistake was bowing to the will of the people, the calls for revenge and the demand to do something, anything. Even if it was wrong. He just didn’t have the smarts. It was an American crime. We were all guilty.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

- I guess that involes Vietnam too - by all accounts - and I don't hold all the USA people responsible for the fact that they have to vote in dumb Presidents - if thats all you have to vote for - which is what it looks like currently in this forthcoming election - you have a choice between dumb and dumber - which is no real choice at all -

Saddam Hussein was a Reagan blunder that needed cleaning up. Iraq was key politically and logistically to any fight on terrorism. It was the ways and the means used in the cleanup that comes into question. The intent was just.

Bush’s mistake was bowing to the will of the people, the calls for revenge and the demand to do something, anything. Even if it was wrong. He just didn’t have the smarts. It was an American crime. We were all guilty.

 

[buzzmobile]

When do you think the indictments will be issued, packerfan79?

 

[Gry]

The information is out there. It's been declassified. It's not a question, the Obama administration is the most corrupt administration in at least my lifetime.

The fact that the law enforcement, and intelligence agencies that set up Trump, and Flynn with Obama's blessing, didn't take down Obama is quite an entertaining defense. Just because he was protected by people who were just as corrupt as he was, doesn't exonerate anything.

You can pull that blue blanket over your head and hide, doesn't change the facts. I know you don't do facts, so keep going with your conspiracy theories.

Everything they accused Trump of, they were actually doing.

It's quite funny how unhinged you guys have become. I do enjoy the desperation on full display.

Not sure where you are finding this desperation that you mention.

I do notice a repeated theme which seems to revolve taking pleasure
from the discomfort of others.
I realize you do not generate that sort of thing, but that is so foreign to
anything I ever experienced with politics.
To take what at this point, are unproven allegations, and then claim the previous administration is the most corrupt of our lifetimes.
That is an extraordinary claim to make, and would therefore call
or extraordinary evidence. Which has yet to be produced.
The claim that the previous administration is more corrupt than other administrations
is a truly extravagant claim, which would have to be based upon pretending a great deal of uncontested history simply did not take place.
Nixon committed repeated treason when we were at war.
We have had a lot of very low points with every administration,
but I think anyone who paid attention to what Cheney was up to

sees he set precedent which this administration has repeatedly

profited from..





Barr made his bones burying the real thing...
Bread and circus ?

 

[Absolem]

Packer has been suffering from ODS for over eight years now.

Obama Derangement Syndrome.

 

[I'mback]

- I guess that involes Vietnam too - by all accounts - and I don't hold all the USA people responsible for the fact that they have to vote in dumb Presidents - if thats all you have to vote for - which is what it looks like currently in this forthcoming election - you have a choice between dumb and dumber - which is no real choice at all -

... and one is an elephant Dumbo!

 

[packerfan79]

Not sure where you are finding this desperation that you mention.

I do notice a repeated theme which seems to revolve taking pleasure
from the discomfort of others.
I realize you do not generate that sort of thing, but that is so foreign to
anything I ever experienced with politics.
To take what at this point, are unproven allegations, and then claim the previous administration is the most corrupt of our lifetimes.
That is an extraordinary claim to make, and would therefore call
or extraordinary evidence. Which has yet to be produced.
The claim that the previous administration is more corrupt than other administrations
is a truly extravagant claim, which would have to be based upon pretending a great deal of uncontested history simply did not take place.
Nixon committed repeated treason when we were at war.
We have had a lot of very low points with every administration,
but I think anyone who paid attention to what Cheney was up to

sees he set precedent which this administration has repeatedly

profited from..





Barr made his bones burying the real thing...
Bread and circus ?

The desperation is the constant, denial of facts. The media has completely ignored every Obama scandal. Yet, every fake Trump scandal, is covered incessantly, ultimately they are debunked in a few days. Their is never a correction. Kind of an important part of ethical journalism.

Have you read any of the 53 recently declassified transcripts, from Schiff's intelligence hearings? When i say the facts are out there, this is what I am talking about.

Nixon, and both Bushes, surely rank high on the list, can't argue that. I didn't vote for any of them.

Obama, used the law enforcement, and intelligence agencies to undermine, and attempt to remove a duly elected President. That's unprecedented. That's what happens in 3rd world countries, without constitutional protections.

Kinda hard to call facts unproven, when you haven't done anything more than read NYT, WAPO, and watch CNN.

 

[Amynamous]

It's not a question, the Obama administration is the most corrupt administration in at least my lifetime.

We certainly have very different ideas of what constitutes CORRUPTION.
Can you please explain to me how president Obama personally profited or benefitted from “corrupt” policies or actions he took?
Did he ever charge $200K for personal and private access with him at one of his private clubs?
Did he ever open a hotel in DC and sell access to foreign governments and high priced lobbyists through his hotel?
Did his daughter in law sell US citizenship to thousands of Chinese Nationals for $500K apiece?
Did his children fly on AirForce One to do business deals in far off lands?
Did his children receive dozens of patents and trademarks when he reduced sanctions on a Chinese tech company?
Did he ever threaten and coerce foreign leaders to obtain a fake investigation on a political rival?
Did he sell out military allies to protect his properties in Turkey?
What did President Obama do that was so corrupt? I am really at a loss of what, in your opinion, constitutes corruption.

 

[Amynamous]

Obama, used the law enforcement, and intelligence agencies to undermine, and attempt to remove a duly elected President. That's unprecedented.

Federal law enforcement agencies had very good reason to investigate several of trump’s inner circle. In fact, it would have been sheer incompetence if they had not. There is zero evidence of an Obama led conspiracy to remove a sitting president.
President Obama was far from a perfect president, and i certainly disagreed with him a lot of the time. However, the corruption meter between Obama and trump is 180 degrees apart.Volumes of Encyclopedias will be written about trump’s corruption.

 

[Sunshineinabag]

more things could be solved if Trump stopped breathing.

please like creep joe is a good role model ever ime we whack a mole 2 more pop up dude