Set it and forget it outdoor growing?

[Iron_Lion]

I'd like to throw a few fast flowering plants outdoors this year. I'd kinda like to keep it simple if possible. I was wondering if it was possible to grow plants with well amended soil maybe some water retention crystals then let mother nature do the rest. Is this possible? yeild doesnt really matter, maybe just a few zips to get me thru next winter. Would the quality suffer, smoke, taste, high? Up until now I've been strictly an indoor grower, but it looks like my indoor hobby may have to take the back seat for a while. Any advice from you outdoor guru's would be greatly appreciated. Strain in question is joey weed Apollo 11 or c99 or other 7-8 week strain.

 

[johnyhash]

set it and forget it is the way to go bro, for this to be a success really early hybrids are key, cause they start flowering so fast you can just prepaire a flowering mix pop em in and hopefully get em before the rippers heres a pic of timewarp x lowryder in the middle of june flowering away. she didnt recieve any attention and gave me a qp of huge nuggs, done in augest shes the tall one.

 

[smokeymacpot]

if you have enough rainfall, yes you can pretty much set and forget.

 

[Guest]

Doesn't work on the west coast, there's no rain... it would never work, unless you were in a swamp.

If you're in the midwest and aren't having a drought, then you're fine.

Wrong.

Iron Lion it depends on how many crystals you put into the hole, and correspondingly, how big the hole is. If you plan on using a whole lot, and you can get them, use the ones made from vegetable starch. The synthetic ones are known for leaving a taste in peoples' weed occasionally but as far as I know, the one's made from starch, don't.
There are quite a few threads around where people who use them report on how they do it, and the results of the two types, how many they put; but yeah; people do it all the time.

 

[1love1earth]

I think it depends on your specific area.

There are TONS of places with extremely different levels of rainfall, even though they are close to each other.

You just have to know the area you are in, OR at least look it up.

Regardless, I've heard those water crystals can be a major help for what you're looking to do.

Just make sure they get saturated with water BEFORE the rain slows down/stops.

They aren't super cheap however, I did find one site that had em for $150 or something for 50lbs.

 

[smokeymacpot]

Wrong.

Iron Lion it depends on how many crystals you put into the hole, and correspondingly, how big the hole is. If you plan on using a whole lot, and you can get them, use the ones made from vegetable starch. The synthetic ones are known for leaving a taste in peoples' weed occasionally but as far as I know, the one's made from starch, as far as I can remember, don't. There are quite a few threads around where people who use them report on how they do it, and the results of the two types, how many they put; but yeah; people do it all the time.

you cannot rely on water crystals to provide a plant with enough water in a dry area. if you put 2 handfulls in the bottom of your hole, they will swell up and make the ground buldge, then 1 week after the last rain they would dry up and you would have to water them. once wet again, they will buldge yet again, this disturbs roots immensely.
rain once a week is ideal, 2 weeks without it and it may start having problems.

They help extend the times between watering, but its not the answer for set and forget grows.

 

[BritishColumbia]

I'm doing a low maintenance plot right now for the first time,before i ran 1/2 inch poly header hose with adjustable drippers tapped from a tiny lake but this year i bought a earth auger with a 4" bit and i just finished doing the holes last week,their about 40" deep and my plants should be about 20-22 inches buy the time i put them out in a couple weeks.I'm running early texada timewarp with black gold soil and a little budswell and crystals and im hoping buy the first June heat wave my plants will have penetrated maybe 5/6 feet and they will be able to handle a couple weeks with no water at least so as long as i get good rain which is common here then i might not have to water at all but even if do i still got a 100g res in my suv with a little gen and sub pump/wand and a couple hundered feet of hose but i really don't want to hand water those fuckin things.

 

[Guest]

I think it depends on your specific area.

There are TONS of places with extremely different levels of rainfall, even though they are close to each other.

You just have to know the area you are in, OR at least look it up.

Regardless, I've heard those water crystals can be a major help for what you're looking to do.

Just make sure they get saturated with water BEFORE the rain slows down/stops.

They aren't super cheap however, I did find one site that had em for $150 or something for 50lbs.

What was that site ?

 

[DoubleJ]

Just what I wanted to hear, I'm doing a guerilla grow in quite a high risk spot, so it'd be preferable to keep visits to a minimum. Got some Diesel Ryder waiting to pop. Im based in the South of England, (I apologise for such a region - specific question), and given the large amounts of rain we usually get throughout the year, are water retention crystals still necessary?

Peace

 

[tokinjoe]

DoubleJ, the point of water crystals is to provide water to your plants during the dry times that some experience during the summer. If you are already getting plenty of rain I can't see the need for them.

 

[Iron_Lion]

Lots of good replies so far. What would a set it and forget it soil mix look like? Is it better to amend the soil before planting or go back periodically and scratch some guanos, bone meal or other organic ferts into the surface soil?

 

[Guest]

you cannot rely on water crystals to provide a plant with enough water in a dry area. if you put 2 handfulls in the bottom of your hole, they will swell up and make the ground buldge, then 1 week after the last rain they would dry up and you would have to water them. once wet again, they will buldge yet again, this disturbs roots immensely.
rain once a week is ideal, 2 weeks without it and it may start having problems.

They help extend the times between watering, but its not the answer for set and forget grows.

I think he's talking about extending the dosage smokey. I don't believe he's asking whether standard dosages last a full grow, but whether a hole can be built that will last two months using extra beads. 4, 5, cups of beads according to what's possible to get to the hole and hydrate properly.

the hole's dug, plastic laid in bottom, dry beads are dropped in, fertilized water added, the beads hydrate. Often since beads are high, this mixture of pure beads is fleshed out larger by mixing them with canadian peat moss.

When they gel, the beads are slumped into a pile in the center of the hole, in an upside down funnel shape, less than more, and the central reservoir is thus formed at the bottom of the hole. The water has a soil dose of flowering nutes for those beads at the bottom.

The hole is partly backfilled to the level the roots of the new installed plant will be: several inches down, from the top of the hole. A stick is found and the last 1/4th to 1/5th of the beads, again often mixed with peat/soil mixture, is poured in that hole, and that then, watered in, this time with soil dosage level vegging nutes. The rest of the hole is filled; hole for the new plant dug down to just at the top of the rising cylinder of beads and peat, plant, walk off.


This lasts for many weeks when watered in well the first time, and enough crystals put in the hole.
I've never read of a plant done this way dying; and I've read many threads on the subject. The plant's final size is according to how much moisture can ultimately be stored in the hole this way; fertigation mix/strain accuracy, etc. -in other words, cumulative conditions thru the grow, in general. Obviously proportions and expectations have to be adjusted in establishing performance of this kind of hole, but you get the idea now- they're definitely outdoor grower pleasers.

Many testimonials to these crystals' ability to sustain a plant through long and consistent drought exist.

 

[B.C.]

2 cents

2 cents

I think one of the most important things you can do fer set em and ferget plants is add tons of organic matter to yer holes. This will keep the microherd happy. The more and better microherd ya have the more it will fight stress from drought, heat, ph swings etc... in other words, yer giving them thier best shot of takin care of them selves all on thier own..... Somethin like mushroom compost, regular garden compost or worm castings, even if it's not broke all the way down is great. The lager particles will retain moisture even longer plus they will add air to yer soil. Micro critters -love- air. When ya grow in soil -everthing- depends on our micro buddies, so ya need ta learn ta make em happy..... CT Guy started a thread called The Living Soil, it's a wonderful piece on how organics work. I think it will help a lot of folks understand what's goin on at that level. Check it out if ya geta chance. Also check out www.soilfoodweb.com for more info. The more ya know the better yer plants will grow! Good luck! Take care...BC

 

[tokinjoe]

What I'm wondering is what effect do the crystals have on the root system if you have an abnormally rainy season? It seems the last few years the country is either rainy as hell or dry as hell during the summer. Would a rainy season promote root rot? To me that's the one thing I can't prevent and have no cure for.

 

[smokeymacpot]

I think he's talking about extending the dosage smokey. I don't believe he's asking whether standard dosages last a full grow, but whether a hole can be built that will last two months using extra beads. 4, 5, cups of beads according to what's possible to get to the hole and hydrate properly.

the hole's dug, plastic laid in bottom, dry beads are dropped in, fertilized water added, the beads hydrate. Often since beads are high, this mixture of pure beads is fleshed out larger by mixing them with canadian peat moss.

When they gel, the beads are slumped into a pile in the center of the hole, in an upside down funnel shape, less than more, and the central reservoir is thus formed at the bottom of the hole. The water has a soil dose of flowering nutes for those beads at the bottom.

The hole is partly backfilled to the level the roots of the new installed plant will be: several inches down, from the top of the hole. A stick is found and the last 1/4th to 1/5th of the beads, again often mixed with peat/soil mixture, is poured in that hole, and that then, watered in, this time with soil dosage level vegging nutes. The rest of the hole is filled; hole for the new plant dug down to just at the top of the rising cylinder of beads and peat, plant, walk off.


This lasts for many weeks when watered in well the first time, and enough crystals put in the hole.
I've never read of a plant done this way dying; and I've read many threads on the subject. The plant's final size is according to how much moisture can ultimately be stored in the hole this way; fertigation mix/strain accuracy, etc. -in other words, cumulative conditions thru the grow, in general. Obviously proportions and expectations have to be adjusted in establishing performance of this kind of hole, but you get the idea now- they're definitely outdoor grower pleasers.

Many testimonials to these crystals' ability to sustain a plant through long and consistent drought exist.

it depends how big the hole is as to how much he uses. buit thats besides the point, no one should be using large amounts of these, in that your soil should not swell or bulge.
and as hes in england, he does not need to use alot of it. plenty of rain there.

 

[Guest]

it depends how big the hole is as to how much he uses. buit thats besides the point, no one should be using large amounts of these, in that your soil should not swell or bulge.
and as hes in england, he does not need to use alot of it. plenty of rain there.

How big the hole is, how much natural moisture retention the soil has, how much rain there'll likely be, how hot it's gonna be, whether it's gonna be in full sunlight all day or part -

if, when you said ''how big the hole is'' you meant all that, you're right.

Concerning your repeated admonition on the amount to use, the conclusion drawn by the vast majority of users is contrary to what you say. I've provided a link.
Polymer Thread

 

[Guest]

Hey Iron Lion,

You'll need decent soil,loose with some darkness to it. If you dig it up and worms are working in it, you'll be fine. If not, you'll have to amend it a bit. Look at the vegetation from last year. If it was healthy and green you will be too.

If you get plentiful rainfall, I would skip the crystals. No need.

Here's what I think I know.

1. A hardy, outdoor strain is an absolute. I'm not familiar with the 2 you have up there, they may be but they may not be. If they are not vigorous and able to withstand wind and bugs, dry spells and heavy rain, you have very little to no chance of success. Its quite the gamble to choose a strain you are not familiar with and don't know how it will perform. Strain selection is the #1 issue in my mind.

2. Native vegetation. Again strain selection. If you plant a small, single cola plant in a patch of weeds 8' tall, then good bye plant and hello failed grow. Plant a 10 footer in an area with 4' weeds and goodbye plant and hellow failed grow. Your plant needs to be able to compete and prevail against that indigenous growth while not sticking out like a sore thumb.. How do your strains perform in relation to the natural veg that's growing in your site now?

My experience, for my area with plenty of rain, is that unkept plants have a 80% failure rate. With the proper planning, it can be reduced to approx. 50%-60% failure rate. ( harvesting 4-5 out of 10 plants.

Thats what I think. Others could feel differently I know.

Good luck.. sb

 

[Julian]

I've done, personally, all of the above for many, many years..........and I see what I consider many inaccuracies above, so, will offer what I think appropriate.....

In no specific order....

1. Your starting point to determine maintenance is always checking local rainfall.........your looking for about 2"-2.5"....(funny how I post that and now others using that figure......)

The way I came up with that estimate..., is that my average can be about 3-4" or so, and, for many years I did successful no maintenance before ever discovering crystals......

Now.........

Some will say above....what about adequate rainfall...well, problem is every season varies.........each season is different.......if your "average" rain fall is 3", you might see 4", or you might see 1"...

Every season is different. Do you know what the upcoming will hold compared to statistical averages?.....then bottle it and sell it. I don't.

We can have an idea based on any indicators, opinions, etc.....but no one knows for sure what season will hold. An area with a sufficient average rainfall may very well undergo a drought.....

Now, once again, regarding "adequate" rainfall.......

Many run irrigation on a consistent basis.......

Your diet and feeding will depend on sun, size, etc.........

I don't believe that even with sufficient rain and crystals plants may be getting what they could use anyway in summer/later summer........

Rot........One has to remember, as elsewhere.........conditions 1-2-3' below surface are far from surface temps.....far from.......I've drilled holes in 90 degree weather and 3 feet down was so cool you want to hold your hands on your face to cool down......

Crystals are an insurance policy...., not to mention provide maintenance between rains even when rains are sufficient....(back to irrigation analogy.........)

I personally talked about elsewhere the key to the entire season being how you get them in...

I see above references to 80% failure rates.....50% if right....and references to surrounding vegetation.........

My rates have been in high 90's for decades, including such surrounding vegetation (you trim it down when planting....and trim back down when back.....)

There is absolutely no reason with adequate soil, and rainfall, and, all other aspects correct that one should not be hitting a 100% success rate (animals and other X Factor issues aside, talking strictly growth......)

The other thing to be aware of, as elsewhere about "no maintenance" is it is not exactly "no maintenance".............you will have to made trips back to top feed, trim down depending on spot.....etc......for me personally that is about once a month....sometimes less, depending...if everything well, I skip plots and go to next ones.......usually around Aug 1st more or less depending on what is going I plan for feedings..........Maybe earlier depending on variables.......if using time release products.......etc....

All starts with your rainfall, then with hole and prep which includes crystals...then get them in before rains?....and, with adequate rainfall, you will be good to go.

Yield statements I think are inaccurate.......adequate rainfall, good hole, some crystals, decent sun....wtf more could you want?????

I have never experienced also any hint of any taste whatsoever due to crystals......this is a myth.....

Lot of people look for "ideal mixes"........really depends and all starts with your native soil and goes from there......

It should also be noted my recommendation personally, and, I think wise is anyone who wants to work with crystals who has not before, when you receive them, do a little experimenting with them to see their properties...how they absorb, expand, etc....to get a "feel" for them.....There are schools that warn against usage and expansion......but, depending on how you use them, your hole, etc.....I personally have never seen those things mentioned........I tend to think more applicable with container growing and/or truly excessive usage........I don't think I'd be using 3-5 cups per hole...which, again, one could see when initially experimenting...a single tablespoon will almost turn a gallon jug to solid gel...so.....all about knowing your product, your environment..........

 

[Julian]

Julian, for us west coast growers, do you believe it would be possible to stick 4-5 cups of water crystals and have the plant survive for 2 months with absolutely no rainfall? Average rainfall for june, july, august is .5"

Assuming we follow King's instructions to a T.

Well........the amount of holes in that are endless to start with....ie: How would they become hydrated in first place?..........if rainfall insufficient, would have to rehydrate manually..........4-5 cups you might very well see insane swelling also......I do everything by eye, so, really hard to give exact amounts, but, would assume I never used more than a cup per hole...(for sure not more, probably a little less, but, I do also water when planting with crystals already in the water/nutes also...(so, some in water, some dry, etc, before rains.....)

I do think though people in such climates, as elsewhere, could truly, truly, due to the above (lack of moisture) benefit tremendously.....just comes down to logistics of it.......how and when and where, etc........but, yeah, my planting mix (liquid, nutes) always has crystals, which I sometimes have to dilute if too thick........

Safety, security........cutting down even 2 trips a season for someone can be the difference between discovery and bringing em home, so....

Can't say off top of my head, but, .5" sounds like not nearly enough to really penetrate the way we need it too.......I usually look for a soaking storm like...every 2 weeks...sometimes 3 if extremely heavy........5".....especially if spread out for a monthly......doesn't sound like enough to penetrate even a foot down let alone several feet and rehydrate...

I think all should use though.....especially drier climates......can only benefit that much more......definitely......

(The above also addresses no maintenance actually.......serious heavy storms......have to check for splitting and tipping issues, etc, even if just to run by to make sure everything good.........I see a storm where fuckin trees are down..., you know......that's bad news and you have to get out there to make sure everything okay......Last year had one or two of those....fuckin serious, serious storms......determining if they have to be worked and braced, etc.....another subject (ie: sometimes they will work themselves right back up and I don't think it wise to brace when it would have worked itself up anyway, but, how can one possibly know if it will or not?....Later in season?, forget about it...........if more than half through flowering and those kinds of storms (or winds for people with less rainfall), can really fuck things up......

Nothing perfect....downsides to all.........some say wish they had our rain?........yeah?, you think so?......yea, sure, I don;t have to haul water, but, I do have to deal with endless upon endless hours of bracing things sometimes....and, great rainfall?....great, try having a 12hr monsoon and 80+ degrees 2 weeks from finish, or even the week of finish and you can't get out there for a week ........

We all have our own issues to deal with.........upsides and downsides to all, but, I personally think I'd rather have a drier climate to work with.....hauling water by whatever means seems more attractive than the downfall of the alternative......(I once had a 2 day monsoon and 90+ degrees week of a large round being harvested....must have lost that week alone about 75lbs of baseball sized resin chunks.......fuckin shame to say the least...(actually, story behind that is I told partners to cut week before, heavy weather coming in and didn't want to risk it........they didn't....so.......)

Anyway..........

Yeah man, I think many in drier climates underestimate the benefits of the crystals.....think could serve many quite well.......I lost a round last year early in season when I ran out...all others made it through fine (3 weeks without rain early on....)...batch without them?...friend to a crisp and quick.....

Edit: See, the other angle is always getting everything out of it you can.....

Example.... .5"..okay, are we talking from May to Oct?, or what variance.......ie: if heavier rains early on, can get them in and maybe reduce maintenance, if for even a couple weeks, month, etc.........Month without work?...always a good thing to me ....so.....you work with what you have to give the greatest benefit......Any and everything that can reduce workload is a bonus.....Sept?.......I can do without rain in Sept and October.....one of last ops we had a heavy, heavy storm early/mid Sept, and, my position basically was that's fine, that's enough......not another day of rain until harvest and would be fine......(monsoon type, very heavy....for sure enough, with hole and crystals to get them through last 30 days.......)

All depends on issues....hole, soil, location, etc.....if temps decent, heavy storm can very well tide you over a month.....People think downside to temps is the temps themselves on plant, when really it's evaporation of existing moisture..., but, once again, flipside is, I think, people forget surface conditions not a accurate representation of conditions 1-2-3ft below...

You know man.....you work with what you have....I don't know West Coast weather, so.......can't be .5" 12 month average, can it?...

 

[Julian]

April:0.5
May:0.7
June:0.0
July:0.1
August:0.0
September:0.0
October:1.8

I would heavily water the holes when I drilled em and added ferts/crystals.

All season nothing and starts October....well isn't that special ...

Well, March, April and May you get something...People have to remember also....that little rain, forget penetration (soil), but, your still looking at some benefit (at those levels just talking mild foliar, etc....) June through September is fucked up.....

Now, something else of course to be aware.......if your talking a half way decent hole with crystals heavily watered when they go in..your set initially right there for a while depending on how large they go in...ie: If talking a 3' deep hole, with crystals and nutes....and a 1ft plant.......hole soaked?...your good for a month I would think...ie: larger it gets, more it eats....so, if putting out 6"-1 footers (example)........I mean, they're uptake and diet is limited until they start to bulk up a little (2-3feet,etc)....Could also of course do holes earlier and try and take some advantage of May, and, of course, while those levels I am sure season to season wouldn't make that much of a difference, I would assume a slight difference still possible.....ie: a 1.2 May, a .3 June, etc.....every little bit adds up.....every little bit, whatever you can get....You know...if talking smaller and a good soaked hole.....that right there cuts off a month depending on temps....(I'd also, with that above, be doing little experiments.....how much moisture 1-2-3 feet down, etc, maybe get a meter and test.....for smaller/mid might be of help but of course larger would think totally SOL...if something end of October, good hole and crystals think could bypass any October waterings.......so, already eliminate 2 months work ......Left the April in also because I view April as "conditioning"......anything heavier in April can just help out in May, etc.....so.....but, level above not too significant, but, depends also on season....extra .5" is an extra .5" any way you slice it...dramatic difference?.....of course not....some difference?...a little.....

So your at June, July, August and September with basically nothing except a light foliar.....

I'd be going heavy on hole and crystals with such......would do nothing but help....(I'm researching new area right now, so......you have what you have....and, have to make due the best you can with what you have.....)

I'd think nice holes with heavier crystals could do nothing but help.....would think could cut down trips(water), but with increased needs each trip......and, again....can't forget conditions couple feet down......surface may be dry.....2-3 feet down might not be for a while, etc....(all depends on temps and humidity, etc......) But, again.......at least can cut 2 months of it...(May-planting and October)......get in there do another heavy watering nearend of May...if June temps okay, might last till last week June, etc....then heavy work begins until end Sept...(and, again....if rains coming October...mid/last week of September I would relax a bit (depending on temps) and watch weather, etc.....which would be same that I have been doing for a while....working the forecast to trips, etc....if your still okay, temps alright, and rains coming in week or two, etc.....

All about reducing any and all work you can.....every trip reduced is a bonus.......every lb not hauled in is a bonus.....(creates a heavier workload at different times of the year, but, me, personally?.....I'd much rather put in the heavy work for 3 months than for 6, etc .......)