Seeking Critique on Vert Colosseum SOG concept.

[heady blunts]

yes! mini flip rooms would be sweet.

 

[Anti]

I like the new signature Anti... Your PM box must be filling up regularly now. . I'm setting up a 1200w stack w/ 400's shortly, so I'll be sure to let you know what i find out as far as spacing and distance. Fyi, you're a pro in my eyes... You could handle more lights if you wanted... . If space and the gf permits, you should keep that stadium running, and flip the light over to the new coli... Start harvesting every month...

yes! mini flip rooms would be sweet.

Well, that is the plan, of course...but I don't want two 0.58 GPW setups... I want one 1.0+ setup that I can then DUPLICATE.

I hope that I'll beat the 0.58 this round, but my lower tier is much further from the light than before and therefore almost not worth using. I'm sure they'll fill out (a bit) once defoliation opens up some more photons for their benefit, but they aren't gonna catch up to the top.

Seeing how well the top row plants are doing this round, I'd really like to see them encircling each bulb. (With a bulb blasting 360 sideways at each octogonal tier.)

Of course, I could always add more lights to the current room (2x 400 on top, 2x400 on bottom) but then I'd have to upgrade my exhaust in a major way, and possibly add a portable A/C to keep it in check.

Seems to me the simplest thing to do would be to take what I've learned in these runs and redesign the system so that it makes the best use of the lamps.

My tiers were designed based on the average finishing height of my plants in those little treepots (under CFL). If I wanted to keep doing the tiers in this setup, I'd need more light, or marlo-style yo-yo light mover (which I suspect would only even out the two tiers. It would not make both tiers as fat as the top tier currently is.)

One possibility would be to cut the legs off my table and build new legs that push the bottom tier right beneath the top tier (with approximately 6"-8" height difference) which would help the bottom tier get decent light, but would also increase the "crowding' up above.

If I did that, I'd probably stagger the plants in the two tiers, effectively giving each plant much more room to grow roots, but less interference with the plants beside it. Something like this:

X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X
-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-
X-····o···o····-X
-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-
X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X-X


I'll be looking forward to your 400w build, Bobble. I'll still need to get a light meter because the CMH have slightly less lumen output (but better CRI and lumen maintenance) than HPS.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Too bad your present table isn't a foot wider.

With all this trouble to build one tier (acknowledging that it is the prototype of possibly more to be stacked), would you really be gaining on the yield you could get with a weed donut, by just placing a dozen plants around a vertical bulb?

edit; check out this post by LouDog420

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4885111&postcount=57

 

[Anti]

would you really be gaining on the yield you could get with a weed donut, by just placing a dozen plants around a vertical bulb?

Actually, that idea occurred to me also. I could simply remove the table and throw plants around the bulb ala the donut while I worked on redesigning...

The thing is that I'd have to veg considerably longer, and that in my book, is no bueno. (If I had a dedicated veg room with decent lights... maybe.)

To run VSOG, I can veg plants under CFL and have them ready to drop in as soon as this round is harvested. (I'm prepping my moms for cloning as we speak.)

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

You're vegging in a cabinet with height restrictions, aren't you?

 

[Anti]

You're vegging in a cabinet with height restrictions, aren't you?

Yeah. The cabinet is only 23" tall. But then, the plants now are about that tall after 2 week veg and 4.5 weeks of flower.

 

[LouDog420]

Actually, that idea occurred to me also. I could simply remove the table and throw plants around the bulb ala the donut while I worked on redesigning...

The thing is that I'd have to veg considerably longer, and that in my book, is no bueno. (If I had a dedicated veg room with decent lights... maybe.)

To run VSOG, I can veg plants under CFL and have them ready to drop in as soon as this round is harvested. (I'm prepping my moms for cloning as we speak.)

Definitely going to need an extra veg space if you want to do the weed doughnut with some bigger plants... I get by with 4-6 (qty) 23w CFLS, so a veg area doesn't have to be big by any means... A power strip or two, and some plug in sockets... They are usually ready for a repot and flip come harvest time too ...

However my space has evolved a bit. Shorter veg, stacked 400w and 250w. 2 levels of plants. Granted the single 400w doughtnut worked out great, but the lowers weren't quite getting the lumens they needed as my girls like to stretch and always ended up with a bit to big of a 'hash' bag after harvests...

If you're thinking about rocking the 4'x4' pod like you said, they sell 4' long wire shelves made for closets that I'm planning on integrating into the pod so I can toss my milk crates and weak make shift second level Also I'm rocking the pod with 6' of height too... I've got a google sketchup schematic without the second level buried deep in my lounge if you get the urge to go digging...

Back to your actual coliseum, that top row looks just about perfect! If you still want to run that and can fit the 4x4 in a different space, I would suggest running only the top tier (or both if the bottom tier ends up filling out), and flip the lights to rock a stacked 800w pod the other 12 hours... See which one you like! My pod costs next to nothing, 8(qty) 2x4's, panda/reflectrix, and a few base boards... Easily less than $50 especially if you have some materials already

Looking good bro!

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

LouDog;

What is the vertical dimension of the sweet zone of illumination with a 400 watt bulb? I.e. what's the vertical depth of good bud one can count on in a donut with a 400w?

 

[LouDog420]

For me, nicest buds end up a foot and a half to a foot away. No light meters over here though, so it is purely my observation... Nice and dense and resin is off the hook. 8" and closer produce some nice big buds, but often they're stressed and resin production is affected. Originally I had my screen 1' away with a 24" diameter, but found the buds that grew through it were not the happiest... Gonna try a 36" one next run

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

OK, I'm glad you gave me that info. But you just gave me the optimal horizontal distance away from the bulb for the inner surface of bud in your donut hole.

Think of how Anti's lower tier of plants was below the zone of optimal lighting. A third tier wouldn't have been illuminated proper either, too high. But in the middle zone of this vertical dimension is a Goldilock's zone of great illumination where you get good bud, not larf. How tall is this zone with a 400 watt bulb?

 

[LouDog420]

LMAO blame the oil dabs and not my poor reading comprehension

Vertical coverage for my 400w pod is something like 1.5' ... 2' was pushing it with a single bulb and anything below was hash making larf. With the added 250w below (or another 400w in anti's case) the overlap of the lights has let me use a 2' vertical coverage for the 400w comfortably, and a 1-1.5' coverage for the 250w below. The canopy fits real nice into a 6' pod, along with can fan/filter and all the floor is elevated to get some nice cool airflow coming from below and have the option to be plumbed for runoff

Cheers brothers

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Many thanks LouDog. I'm full of questions today. Those are some mighty useful numbers you just handed us 400 watters. With your distance from bulb, would this be for HP Sodium or CMH ... or is the heat difference not that much to matter?

 

[Anti]

I had access to a DSLR camera today.

I took a picture of the whole room and then I zoomed in to "100%" in photoshop (to get the whole image on my hi-res monitor, I have to zoom down to 12%) and this was the result.

Now if only I had an extra $1500 lying around, imagine the cool pictures I could take!

 

[LouDog420]

Awesome shot anti!! Gotta spread it around....

Wanted a nice look at the calyx, but it seems there are too many trichomes in the way!

CR.... All those numbers were for HPS... Ran mixed spectrum CMH/HPS a while ago, but can't remember well enough to make any comparisons

 

[Anti]

Many thanks LouDog. I'm full of questions today. Those are some mighty useful numbers you just handed us 400 watters. With your distance from bulb, would this be for HP Sodium or CMH ... or is the heat difference not that much to matter?

Seems like my problem is that I'm getting TOO close to the bulbs, which may be limiting the size that my canopy COULD get.

From what I've read, there's not as much heat radiated from the CMH as from the HPS. I can hold my hand less than an inch from my bulb (with the fans on) without my hand becoming uncomfortably hot, but I have scars from where I accidently brushed against them while tending to plants. So they're HOT, but ever since I got better fans under my bulbs and effectively "raised the roof" by 6", the temps have been much more stable, even when my heater was on. But I have never run this all with HPS so I don't know what the difference would be other than second hand.

Seems like a light meter is the only real solution and i like to play at being a researcher, so it's just another tool to make me feel all sciency.

A light meter will tell me how close is too close (above something like ~1600 umol and plant growth actually SLOWS slightly.) and how far is too far. Once I know the "too far line, I can build the outside of the beds at that line, so that every inch of every plant is within the "Goldilocks Zone" of my lamps.


But what do I know, anyway?

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

A light meter will tell me how close is too close (above something like ~1600 umol and plant growth actually SLOWS slightly.) and how far is too far. Once I know the "too far line, I can build the outside of the beds at that line, so that every inch of every plant is within the "Goldilocks Zone" of my lamps.

~2000umol reportedly will stop photosynthesis entirely. You are on the right track with taking the time to measure your intensity, and keep everything behind the the shutoff line.

 

[catman]

Still some room to spare in there! If ya would have flipped sooner, sounds like that bottom tier would have been entirely pointless.

Just run a row between the bulbs like we talked about before for two square donuts. Fred has mentioned that circles don't always work the greatest in reality and plants laid out in a square is better. Think theoretically all ya want, I've seen enough pictures of large gardens where the corner plants just don't amount to much... like Fred says...surprise!

Who doesn't want a light meter, I know I do, but I just can't imagine the money couldn't be better spent. Ya shouldn't have much trouble figuring out the light penetration from trial and error man. Next round put some plants closer to the lights and some further back...

As always, don't over think shit too much Anti.. don't forget to give yourself a pat on the back either.

 

[TommyTwoColas]

A light meter costs fifty dollars and takes the guesswork out of your setup.

Invest the money, you'll be glad you did.

 

[Anti]

I just spent about an hour and a half defoliating... and I'm willing to bet that NOBODY would know the difference if I didn't show them the bag of fan leaves I just took off.

These top-tier plants are fucking MONSTERS compared to last round.

Don't know how my final yield will turn out (weight wise) but the DENSITY of the colas this time is pretty amazing.

 

[DHF]

It`s the lil things Bro....Once all aspects of the setup are dialed it`s babyshit....Set it and ferget it...and then....

Squeeze every gram yas can squeeze outta yo bitches that can be squeezed.....

A work in progess....always doin more.....

Peace...DHF........