Scientific Method

[RanchoDeluxe]

What a simple concept: Scientific Method

1. Hypothesis
2. Experiment
3. Conclusion

Every successful grower, new and experienced, uses Scientific Method whether they know it or not...or they just get lucky. I like to be lucky with the ladies but not the ones we're talking about here. Instead of using the same old soil mix that pays the bills (control) I recently planted my girls in a different soil mix that I had never used (unknown). Things could have turned into an utter crop failure, as luck would have it, it just wasn't up to par. This occured not because of lack of N or pH or whatever else I'd like to blame it on. It occurred because of my failure to follow Scientific Method. Anytime anything new is introduced into your growing routine, it should stand up to the rigors of Scientific method.

1. Hypothesis- This is a statement or question that we seek to prove or disprove. I will use as an example the following question throughout this explanation.

Will soil mix "A" outperform soil mix "B" ? Soil mix "B" has shown proven results and will be used as a "control".

2. Experiment- Our "control" soil mix B has shown proven results. Soil mix "A" has never been used and the results are unknown. Hence, it will be known as "unknown". Until soil mix "A" has shown proven results, it should only be tried on a small number of plants, not to exceed what the grower is willing to completely lose. It is important that all other growth related factors ie. genetics,light, water,environment etc. be identical for both "control" and "unknown". If soil mix "A" obviously underperforms mix "B" a conclusion can be made prior to harvest. Otherwise, a conclusion may need to be made after curing and weighing the final product.

3. Conclusion- In the case of an underperforming soil mix "A" we may simply choose not to run this mix again unless it is amended in some way. Even after said amendment it needs to be run through Scientific Method once again. If soil mix "A" outperforms soil mix "B" it may end up replacing it as the new control.

This method can and should be used anytime anything new is introduced into the garden. It is the only way I know of to determine if what you are introducing is truly beneficial. Anytime you use a new soil mix, foliar, fert, tea, light bulb, etc. Obviously some aspects are more important which is why I chose soil mix as an example.

For newer growers, the experiment is much the same, except that you will have no "control" soil mix...all "unknowns". Don't fret, nowadays soil mixes abound everywhere. Choose 3 of your favorites after doing some reading and see which works best for you. Just make sure all other variables are identical.

Rancho

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

Recycled soil and Scientific Method

This is where I want to take this thread next. The fact that everytime I placed my plants into a recycled soil I was unsure of what the results would be really bothered me. I have nowhere near the experience with recycled soil as some members of this site do. For them recycled soil can be defined as their "control" for me however it is an "unknown"

In order to do a proper experiment using Scientific method before each batch of recycled soil has proven itself it seems to me I will need enough soil for 3 full cycles. Lots of dirt, but at least I'll sleep better.

That enough of me for one day.

 

[Coba]

the ol' "canary in the coal mine"...

:subscribed:

 

[fungzyme]

Ooh, you had me at 'scientific method'...

If you amend and run your unknown soil again, and it performs better, some of the results may be attributable to the fact that the base soil mix has had longer to establish equilibrium of your beneficials, break down your slower-release ingredients (rock phosphate, that kind of thing), etc. - so you might have to take that into account. I know when I used soil and reused it (without reamending) for seedlings, those seedlings would explode and outperform the ones in my 'hotter' soil.

Maybe reuse both soil A and soil B and control for the amendments added (?) or just use new soils for the side by side?

EDIT: Never mind - your next post brought up the recycled soil factor. I gotta learn to type faster...

 

[c-ray]

sounds like you're getting ready to do some soil tests

 

[Cappy]

To recycle soil, you need a cleaning regimine while the roots are fresh and in place, especially if you don't flush (I don't). The soil is perfectly neutral after that in my room for the last many years. You don't just use it fresh out of the flowering container, if that's what you're going to do.

Recycled soil seems an odd place to use the scientific method unless you're going to clean the soil and then put it up against other kinds of mediums that are not recycled and judge performance.

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

To recycle soil, you need a cleaning regimine while the roots are fresh and in place, especially if you don't flush (I don't). The soil is perfectly neutral after that in my room for the last many years. You don't just use it fresh out of the flowering container, if that's what you're going to do.

Recycled soil seems an odd place to use the scientific method unless you're going to clean the soil and then put it up against other kinds of mediums that are not recycled and judge performance.

It seems as though I better explain how this applies to recycled soil before it gets out of hand. Nothing from the above post makes any sense to me. No offense...maybe it's just me.

What exactly is a cleaning regiment? I keep my floors swept and everything is cleaned with vinegar and water after each harvest. How does this achieve and what exactly is a perfectly neutral soil? pH can be neutral but soil?

Many people do plant directly in their flowering containers...it's called no-till, and that's not what I'm going for. And the last part, How do I "clean" my soil? I disagree, recycled soil is ideal for the scientific method.

Allow me to explain.
You start by making enough soil for 3 runs. This is a tried and true soil mix that you know works.

First run- Nothing to compare just running the same fresh mix. At this point it is identical to the soil that is sitting there for the next 2 runs.

Second run- Use fresh mix again...this means you have 1 more run worth of fresh mix for the next round. During this run, the now used mix from the first run is recycled/amended and allowed to cook.

Third run- Use the last of the fresh mix you have. It's at this point you use the scientific method ie. side-by-side comparison by placing a few plants into the recycled soil from the first run. At this point, the mix from the second run is amended and allowed to cook.

Fourth Run- If the plants in recycled soil from the third run did well go ahead and use it. Now, we'll plant a few in the recycled mix from the second run. If all goes well with these plants...we can go ahead and use them on the fifth run. And so on and so on.

By doing this, there is no guesswork, if when you test a few plants the results are undesirable, you go back to your old-standby soil mix and try again. Sure beats planting an entire crop into a soil mix that will prove to be less than worthy.

Disclaimer- I haven't had any formal education in over 15 years. The terms "control" and "unknowns" may not be the correct terminology. The rest I remember from the 8th grade or I simply pulled it out of my ass.

 

[Cappy]

Nothing I posted makes any sense to you?

And you're hosting a discussion on the scientific method?

I'll just go ahead and skip reading the rest of what you wrote after that.

No offense taken.

Have a nice thread.

 

[Coba]

"Nothing I posted makes any sense to you? "

he is not alone sir.
your post is the first time I have read anything about a cleaning regimen for recycled soil.

Cappy, would you elaborate on the subject of "cleaning" and "flushing" recycled organic living soil for me please?

Thanks.

Allow me to explain.
You start by making enough soil for 3 runs. This is a tried and true soil mix that you know works.

First run- Nothing to compare just running the same fresh mix. At this point it is identical to the soil that is sitting there for the next 2 runs.

Second run- Use fresh mix again...this means you have 1 more run worth of fresh mix for the next round. During this run, the now used mix from the first run is recycled/amended and allowed to cook.

Third run- Use the last of the fresh mix you have. It's at this point you use the scientific method ie. side-by-side comparison by placing a few plants into the recycled soil from the first run. At this point, the mix from the second run is amended and allowed to cook.

Fourth Run- If the plants in recycled soil from the third run did well go ahead and use it. Now, we'll plant a few in the recycled mix from the second run. If all goes well with these plants...we can go ahead and use them on the fifth run. And so on and so on.

By doing this, there is no guesswork, if when you test a few plants the results are undesirable, you go back to your old-standby soil mix and try again. Sure beats planting an entire crop into a soil mix that will prove to be less than worthy.

So your going to make your tried and true soil... then recycle it?

I thought you were going to make two different soil mixes... Yours, soil "B"... and then the ROLS w/o the R, soil "A".

Maybe you should make enough for 4 runs... 3 runs worth of Your tried and true and 1 run worth of GC's OLS... it'll earn the R the next round.

just a suggestion... either way this should be a good show. I feel your tried and true soil will get better after a good recycle or two.

P.S. what are the ingredients in your tried and true?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

"Nothing I posted makes any sense to you? "

he is not alone sir.

your post is the first time I have read anything about a cleaning regimen for recycled soil.

I'm glad it wasn't just me - thanks for the post! Seriously.

CC

 

[c-ray]

how about:
using the same base recycled mix

A) recycled mix (+50% of amendment #1)
B) recycled mix (+100% of amendment #1)
C) recycled mix (+50% of amendment #2)
D) recycled mix (+100% of amendment #2)
E) recycled mix (+50% of amendment #1 and +50% of amendment #2)
F) recycled mix (no amendments / control)

 

[Cappy]

lol, let's schoool the children a bit.

c-ray, what is your "base recycled mix"? The soil from your flowering container? Are you growing organically? Is your organic soil mix good enough to get your plants to harvest with no external feeding?

Are you growing chemically? If so, do you flush?

 

[fungzyme]

This forum is just chock full of ignorant growers. Great.

Instead of being a pseudo-elitist and denouncing people for having the audacity to question you, why don't you simply explain what the fuck you were talking about. Just a suggestion...

EDIT: How many more times are you going to edit your previous post? Until you think of the perfect Internet Intellectual comeback in just the right sneering tone? Good luck with that...

 

[ClackamasCootz]

lol, let's schoool the children a bit.

Have mommy drive you over to Target to get a pair of big-boy pants and have her make you a big lunch - you'll need it.

CC

 

[Gascanastan]

Cool another trashed thread,I love these things .....happens all the time Rancho. Just so you don't feel left out...it happens to all of us now and again.

Just send the kids to bed man..they've had too much sugar....

Lets change the topic.....

Anyone wonder why those little soils tests you can buy at the hydro-store aren't at all accurate in organic soil?
That might be of concern for a gardener who might consider doing a test with one.

 

[rasputin]

Cool another trashed thread,I love these things .....happens all the time Rancho. Just so you don't feel left out...it happens to all of us now and again.

Seriously. This site is being overrun with faux experts and outright morons.

Keep it rolling, Rancho.

 

[Adze]

RanchoDelux,

For me the scientific method has great appeal. Dispassionate observations, experiments with limited variables, control groups, the stuff that makes conclusions worthy of consideration.
Seems to me like your experiment has a good potential to provide you with useful information. I hope you will continue, ignoring whatever distractions occur, and let us know how it goes.
Dealing with organic materials, genetic and environmental variables, makes it difficult to impose the strict control that scientific methods would prefer.
But as a logical experiment, within the context of your grow, your efforts should be worthwhile.

Thanks.

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

Cool another trashed thread,I love these things .....happens all the time Rancho. Just so you don't feel left out...it happens to all of us now and again.

Just send the kids to bed man..they've had too much sugar....

View Image



Lets change the topic.....

Anyone wonder why those little soils tests you can buy at the hydro-store aren't at all accurate in organic soil?
That might be of concern for a gardener who might consider doing a test with one.

(Raised hand)

Is it because those tests cannot determine the NPK in the microlife?

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

lol, let's schoool the children a bit.

c-ray, what is your "base recycled mix"? The soil from your flowering container? Are you growing organically? Is your organic soil mix good enough to get your plants to harvest with no external feeding?

Are you growing chemically? If so, do you flush?

Hey man, I feel as though I was rather polite to you. I gave you an opportunity to explain yourself even though it was obvious you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Please just stay out of this thread. I will no longer respond to anything you have to say.

RD

 

[Microbeman]

Anyone wonder why those little soils tests you can buy at the hydro-store aren't at all accurate in organic soil?
That might be of concern for a gardener who might consider doing a test with one.

Even the expensixe ($2000+) LaMotte test kit is inaccurate in my experience. I found out the hard way.