Sativex

[mocs0]

Most Cannabis you smoke has only THC with maybe a tiny bit of CBD, maybe.

I don't believe smoking is the healthiest way to ingest it anyway, unless you need immediate relief for certain things, or if you have lung problems. And most people ignore the health benefits of hemp, hemp oil and hemp seeds. If it was legal we could study these things, instead of relying on USA inc. for info.

As was mentioned in the CBD thread (thanks suby), how many well-meaning breeders have equipment to test thc/cbd levels? https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=116792

Hemp (which has more cbd) seeds are sterilized upon import, putting us in the unique situation where viable MJ seeds are easier to find than Hemp seeds.

If we can put less emphasis on stoner couch lock, and more on maximizing the health benefits of Cannabis Sativa, Indica, and yes, even Ruderalis, then maybe we can prove Rick Simpson was not a conspiracy theorist.

Possibly if we made hash oil from one THC-Heavy strain and mixed it with hash oil from a CBD-heavy strain and hemp oil from hemp seeds, and we ate lots of it, we would be in business.

Cannabis has over 90 Cannabinoids, you need different ones for different medical indications, you don't need all 90 for anything I know of, but there is no Cannabis that has all 90 anyway.
-SamS

Well, mother nature put them there for a reason. We should find out why. There are compounds in cannabis that we still don't understand because official policy is to stick our heads in the sand and pretend there's no medical benefits. I believe big pharma understands the plant, but their research is private, so I can't say. IMO they don't want their medicine to be too effective. Healthy people are not good for business.

Isolating compounds from plants that have been used as medicine for thousands of years while discounting the rest of those compounds you don't understand is ignorance, neglect, and in some cases greed.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Do you understand that no Cannabis variety has 90 Cannabinoids and none ever did? 90 Cannabinoids is the total found in all varieties.
It is not required to isolate any compounds if the plants were bred to only contain one in the first place. That and Sativex is a full plant extract anyway.
-SamS

Possibly if we made hash oil from one THC-Heavy strain and mixed it with hash oil from a CBD-heavy strain and hemp oil from hemp seeds, and we ate lots of it, we would be in business.

Well, mother nature put them there for a reason. We should find out why. There are compounds in cannabis that we still don't understand because official policy is to stick our heads in the sand and pretend there's no medical benefits. I believe big pharma understands the plant, but their research is private, so I can't say. IMO they don't want their medicine to be too effective. Healthy people are not good for business.

Isolating compounds from plants that have been used as medicine for thousands of years while discounting the rest of those compounds you don't understand is ignorance, neglect, and in some cases greed.

 

[Noobian]

I made my own Sativex last month, dissolved a couple grams of good honey oil in a little everclear, add a few drops of peppermint schnapps, and put it into a spray bottle. Took about 5 minutes to make and fookin POTENT.

Were you spraying it in your mouth like Sativex and it was getting you high? That is interesting!

 

[Lazyman]

Were you spraying it in your mouth like Sativex and it was getting you high? That is interesting!

Yep, tastes good, a hint of mint and a hint of hashy flavor, my friends that tried it really liked it too. Takes a couple sprays and then you gotta wait a while for it to kick in. I think the alcohol helps with the absorption rate though.

 

[mocs0]

Do you understand that no Cannabis variety has 90 Cannabinoids and none ever did? 90 Cannabinoids is the total found in all varieties.
It is not required to isolate any compounds if the plants were bred to only contain one in the first place. That and Sativex is a full plant extract anyway.
-SamS

I understand that since you told me. So you're saying Indicas and Sativas only have thc and the other 89 are in hemp? I find that hard to believe.

It's irrelevant, since my theory as stated above is that a mix of high-thc oil, high-cbd oil and hemp oil would provide a more well-rounded medicine. Capiche?

How do you know how "full" sativex is? Did they publish the full production process? If you think it is a valid replacement for old-fashioned cannabis, hash oil, etc., then go for it. No skin off my back. Sounds like watered - down politics as usual to me.

GW's team includes experts in Cannabis breeding. In the genetic model used, the cannabinoid content of each chemical phenotype (chemotype) is controlled by four independent loci. By manipulating the genes at these four positions, our scientists can precisely control the cannabinoid composition of a plant. This is explained in the diagram below:

Looks like genetically - modified crap too. They are playing God with that GMO BS. I don't like it one bit. Hypocrites all around. Stem cell research is unethical, but it's ok to put it in our food and medicine supply and treat us like lab rats.

Let me know how effective it is when you join the drug trials tho. http://www.spraytrial.com/

 

[crazybear]

I don't believe Sativex is the total answer & I would rather have the natural thing, I think getting Sativex okayed by the fda might be the smoking gun to get cannabis legalized but I'm not holding my breath!

 

[mocs0]

Marinol should have been the smoking gun. It (edit: it being cannabis, obviously)has been used as medicine for thousands of years. Researchers have used it to kill tumors, shrink tumors, and stop tumor growth. How many guns do we need?

We need to let the press know that they are not asking the politicians the right questions. Hit them where it hurts and boycott their advertisers. Make medical marijuana a talking point in the upcoming elections. With 60% approval of medical marijuana by Americans (according to fox news), maybe we can make something happen. Sitting here waiting for prohibition is not gonna happen. I guarantee it.

It may take 160 million physical signatures to prove that this is what the people want by majority, but in the age of social networking and six degrees of separation, it's not impossible.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

So to be clear you are against developing medicines from Cannabis including different delivery forms? Even if it will help patients that don't want herbal Cannabis or brownies, but will use an government approved registered medicine?

I simply don't see the reason.

It already works... as is.

If they don't want herbal cannabis or brownies or any natural extract or delivery then they don't need it.

The only reason I see is government approval and registration.... and more money.... for them.

 

[mocs0]

Big pharma is pussy-footing and playing games in the name of profits while pretending like cannabis is only effective for treating the symptoms of chemo when studies have shown cannabis can possibly be an alternative to chemo.

They pretend it's in the name of keeping us safe from the negative effects of being high, but if CBD can mitigate those effects, let the pharmaceutical companies extract cbd and sell it in pill form for those who want it and let the rest of us have our hemp, sativa and indica plants so we can grow it cheaply in a locked greenhouse.

Politicians are supposed to be public servants, not our baby-sitters. They need to stop giving themselves raises and tax cuts long enough to do something for the people they have sworn under oath to serve.

"Side effects from chemotherapy can include pain, diarrhea, constipation, mouth sores, hair loss, nausea and vomiting, and blood-related side effects."

Being high is worse than that? get real. Chemo attacks healthy cells as well as cancerous cells, and it can kill you. Cannabis attacks mutated cancerous cells and is relatively harmless. What a joke.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Your lack of understanding is not hard considering you read that GW is doing GM in the statement, I know that it is not true, they use classical breeding methods, no GM, your fears are blinding you to the truth.
-SamS

I understand that since you told me. So you're saying Indicas and Sativas only have thc and the other 89 are in hemp? I find that hard to believe.

Looks like genetically - modified crap too. They are playing God with that GMO BS. I don't like it one bit. Hypocrites all around. Stem cell research is unethical, but it's ok to put it in our food and medicine supply and treat us like lab rats.

Let me know how effective it is when you join the drug trials tho. http://www.spraytrial.com/

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

So to be clear you are against developing medicines from Cannabis including different delivery forms? Even if it will help patients that don't want herbal Cannabis or brownies, but will use an government approved registered Cannabis medicine?
BTW Sativex is a simple plant extract you do know that don't you?
Also I am wondering if a loved one needs a prescription medicine do you really want some one like you deciding if the form they need is really required or not, maybe just maybe that should be left to the doctors and patients not you. Or maybe they just don't need it if they won't take it in the form you prefer?
-SamS

I simply don't see the reason.

It already works... as is.

If they don't want herbal cannabis or brownies or any natural extract or delivery then they don't need it.

The only reason I see is government approval and registration.... and more money.... for them.

 

[Noobian]

Yep, tastes good, a hint of mint and a hint of hashy flavor, my friends that tried it really liked it too. Takes a couple sprays and then you gotta wait a while for it to kick in. I think the alcohol helps with the absorption rate though.

Wow that is cool as hell I might have to try this when I have some extra buds just laying around. I like ingesting in new and different ways

 

[mean mr.mustard]

So to be clear you are against developing medicines from Cannabis including different delivery forms? Even if it will help patients that don't want herbal Cannabis or brownies, but will use an government approved registered Cannabis medicine?
BTW Sativex is a simple plant extract you do know that don't you?
Also I am wondering if a loved one needs a prescription medicine do you really want some one like you deciding if the form they need is really required or not, maybe just maybe that should be left to the doctors and patients not you. Or maybe they just don't need it if they won't take it in the form you prefer?
-SamS

Cannabis is already a medicine... what is there to develop? You admit that Sativex is a plant extract.

If a loved one needs a prescription medicine I'd want to know that they are actually in need of it.

In the days of drugs passing testing and then killing people and large amounts of unrecoverable drugs flushing into our water systems, I don't simply put all of my faith and trust into pharmaceuticals.

There is nothing that scares me more than trying to "legitimize" cannabis as a medicine by dressing it up beyond what is necessary.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I guess the real question is who decides what is best for patients? The Doctors and patients or you?
I say give the patients as many choices as you can, with as many delivery forms as possible, with the end goal to help as many patients as possible. How can you feel otherwise, do you really feel qualified to remove a choice from a patient, because you have decided it is not best for them? Don't they get to choose?
-SamS

Cannabis is already a medicine... what is there to develop? You admit that Sativex is a plant extract.

If a loved one needs a prescription medicine I'd want to know that they are actually in need of it.

In the days of drugs passing testing and then killing people and large amounts of unrecoverable drugs flushing into our water systems, I don't simply put all of my faith and trust into pharmaceuticals.

There is nothing that scares me more than trying to "legitimize" cannabis as a medicine by dressing it up beyond what is necessary.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Doctors don't always practice real medicine. They have been known to treat medicine as a business. If a pharm rep offers a cruise vacation for prescribing a certain number of scripts, guess what most people are going to be prescribed??

Who does decide what is best for patients?

 

[bergerbuddy]

So to be clear you are against developing medicines from Cannabis including different delivery forms? Even if it will help patients that don't want herbal Cannabis or brownies, but will use an government approved registered medicine?

And no, their is no difference between natural or synthetic THC. The USA government passed the rescheduling on synthetic THC, with sesame oil, in a soft gelatin capsule, to keep natural Cannabis and natural THC away from patients and researchers. Sativex uses natural Cannabis extracts and is at least a small step in the right direction of more choices for patients.
-SamS

Yes... Sativex is a good "small" step in the right direction... It is absolutely important however to be vigilant that GW Phrama's approach to Cannabinoids does not result in a whole new problem of merely different reasons a plant gets you sent to jail.. i.e. patent infringement or non-approved forms of Cannabinoids...

What GW has done, together with companies like Hortapharm (yours right??) the Dutch government the Brits and even a few 3 letter agencies of the good ole USA, is truly to be lauded. But lest anyone forget... A few here have an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE.. I would love to research and develop the Cannabis plant with tacit or overt approval of USA gov agencies or Foreign Countries.. But who controls ultimately these plants of nature.. put here by god and cultivated and used by humans for thousands of years? Are we allowing the technology of Monsanto to prevade the Cannabis research industry? Are we manipulating through gene impregnation the natural profile of cannabinoids in plants? or allowing terminator genes or ANY foreign genes to be placed within the cannabis plant? And when those plants pollinate the naturally occuring plants in nature... are we going to fine or arrest those who have cannabis with "PATENTED GENES" growing on their property?
I see where you mention 90 cannabinoids... I am familiar with Dr. Mechoulam's statement that there are 63. Are you counting the endo cannabinoids like anamide? which are not found naturally occuring in any cannabis I am aware of?

I find all this SATIVEX noise very interesting... but how it all impacts the scheduling etc in the USofA will be one way and one way only...
POLITICAL... When its time and the angles are sowed up.. Cannabinoids will be available.. but then.. only those for which some gov agency somewhere working together with several intl corps. a few 3 letter agency's and a few well connected intl powerbrokers decide should be available..
And punishment will be swift for those who don't....... Go along...

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Well I can see you are not letting your fears cloud your opinions.
GW does not grow GM Cannabis, GM products can't even be grown in Europe, all your fears are just that, FEARS.
Like the GW issues you are also mistaken about the number of Cannabinoids found in Cannabis, and no they are not endo-Cannabinoids like Anandamide. Even wikipedia lists 85, I am not sure if the other 5 have been published in the literature yet. See:
Biologically Active Cannabinoids from High-Potency Cannabis sativa
-SamS

Are we allowing the technology of Monsanto to prevade the Cannabis research industry? Are we manipulating through gene impregnation the natural profile of cannabinoids in plants? or allowing terminator genes or ANY foreign genes to be placed within the cannabis plant? And when those plants pollinate the naturally occuring plants in nature... are we going to fine or arrest those who have cannabis with "PATENTED GENES" growing on their property?
I see where you mention 90 cannabinoids... I am familiar with Dr. Mechoulam's statement that there are 63. Are you counting the endo cannabinoids like anamide? which are not found naturally occuring in any cannabis I am aware of?

 

[supermanlives]

free the weed.the more choices people have the better.

 

[crazybear]

I agree most Drs. practice medicine out of greed, they couldn't care less about the patient as they could the wall! Mostly what ever the pretty little Pharm. Rep. is pushing is what you get prescribed!
I for the most part don't trust DRS. I lost count of the number of nerve burns the one did to no avail & then you read that it's not usually successful anyway, just putting money in there pockets paying off there equipment! I would rather deal with the pain smoking some herb anyway than taking pills that make it hard to know what's going on around you!

 

[bergerbuddy]

Well I can see you are not letting your fears cloud your opinions.
GW does not grow GM Cannabis, GM products can't even be grown in Europe, all your fears are just that, FEARS.
Like the GW issues you are also mistaken about the number of Cannabinoids found in Cannabis, and no they are not endo-Cannabinoids like Anandamide. Even wikipedia lists 85, I am not sure if the other 5 have been published in the literature yet. See:
Biologically Active Cannabinoids from High-Potency Cannabis sativa
-SamS

Hi Sam,
I merely related the quote from Dr.Mecholam. I don't put too much faith in Wikipedia, heck I could have written it!!, but I will research the sentence you suggest if I can find it with google.

Surely you wouldn't be against vigilance of the corp and gov agency's trying to patent, even mess with the natural cannabinoid profile of our favorite plant?

Is it all BS that your work was funded by those wanting to see "dutch genetics" hard to clone and sterile when it comes to reproduction? If so then I apologize
however if it is true.. that does not comport with the freedom of the plant or the best thing for real people wanting real relief through the use of the plant or plant extract....
If GW can use their research and work as an excuse to control the plant or the cannabinoid profiles that grow naturally in the plant that is wrong imho. If they use it to bring new REAL AUTHENTIC Cannabinoid based medicines to the masses and only want to control those meds... GREAT!! However lets not have the exsistence of those meds, become the excuse to deny the whole plant and continue its ban..
Yes, I have heard Dr. Guy's explanation 10 million plus spent in research, testing, laboratories "greasing plams" etc... to bring these meds to the masses... So make good meds and let the patients decide... Don't be surprised if many will find better relief in something made from the plant they grew in thier closet though..

This is good and a good small step.... Lets not delude ourselves that these few bringing meds to the masses through big corp big gov assistance replace the need or the right for someone to provide themselves of their own... nor does it give the PTB the right to claim ownership of the genetics or the cannabinoid profiles..

That being said... I've admired your work for many many many many years... and I hope to admire it for many more..