Sammy's Chinese COB-FEST

[sammyz2646]

BAD ASS DOC!!!! Man bro, did you draw all that up with your computer skills?

See, I could never have done that! Sharing skills ----is where it's at!






Below, I cut and pasted from my original thoughts back in late Apr. . . .. .in 3d dream's DIY stealth thread and of course is un-edited at this point, so some items discussed have changed and will continue to change and get better and better. . . .

before all this starting coming together. . . . Now with the help of LED masters in IC mag, I hope that many will benefit from the thought, and it just gets better and better with all the smart motivated people here. . .



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I recently had some thoughts on how to EASILY keep these LED's cool with a simple 4" inline fan and a few feet of lightweight 4" pipe. I like the white 4" stuff at Home Depot. This is intended with the thought that approx 100 watts would be the wattage of each independent LED in this "convection array". The array could include numerous COB's of each growers desired spectrum based on their own research. I recently mounted a 100 watt COB directly in front of a small fan and I'm saying, the airflow kept it very cool. Now I'm not going to go out and buy a bunch of little computer fans and wire them all up!!! there must be a better way. . . . .


Ever go outside in 30 F degree weather, with a 30 mile an hour wind ? Or go stand in front of your A/C unit for like 10 minutes. BRRRR
It doesn't take long to start freezing your butt off due to heat loss via CONVECTION. I too was thinking that for this to work best, the heat sinks would need to be square or rectangular, as I intend to mount them, (or a small array of them), to the pipe, being pushed by that 4" fan. This pipe could circle the room, at you desired height, with fittings for the corners, being pulled by the inline fan. My heat sinks will be inserted from the inside, as the back of the sink is wider than the top and it will fit SNUG inside up against the wall (of the pipe) screwed tightly. I was thinking to still use thermal pad or paste as directed. Mount it to your square-ish heat sink of choice, and then simply cut appropriate sized holes in the pipe. The key here would be to mount the heat sink JUST far enough into the airflow interior of the pipe. Maybe 1/4 in or less, because you really don't want to "restrict" the normal airflow that your fan provides. The goal here is to have the rear of the heat sink in the draft of the airflow inside the pipe, therefore exhausting any heat away with haste. This air would not need be cold at all as it will constantly refresh the hot area behind the chip and heat sink with a stiff breeze of air. I will be building this as I am convinced it will work. I already have these pipes pulling up Co2 in the room from the floor scrubbing full time with the carbon filters. I can just re - route these lines to my desired LED mounting locations and heights. May take some thought

The failure rates of the cheaper, yet effective Chinese cobs ( of any spectrum) would improve drastically over a simple, passive, or potentially undersized heat sink for the desired operation

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Huge credit to the creativity put forth by luvdemshrooms on his project---Cause you took it to a new level man --with the old cool tube and the Cree's
Great engineering followed by clean craftsmanship

That hood gave me many additional thoughts, thanks

 

[Dr.Nonagon]

But if you would like to have a more compact assembly, you can use flat heatsinks, like those :

Yeah this is the style I have been working with lately. The flat rad seems to benefit greatly from turbulence withing the enclosure rather then just passing air straight through. As well as anodizing increasing the thermal convection of aluminum, I just wish copper wasn't so pricey. Great website link too.

BAD ASS DOC!!!! Man bro, did you draw all that up with your computer skills?

See, I could never have done that! Sharing skills ----is where it's at!

It was easy, Google Sketchup and it only took about an hour.

Got any ideas you want drawn up just shoot me a line.

 

[StoopheadFred]

Hey Sammy, pretty awesome to see what you've got going on in here. Loving the whole cooltube design, especially since it doesn't inhibit light transmission. Very smart!

Got a quick Q I'm hoping you know the answer to. I ordered some Chinese Cob's and it turns out they are 30 mil instead of 45 mil.

Any idea what the benefits are to the larger size?
Are the emitters themselves larger, or is it just a larger area so the heat is easier to deal with?

 

[sammyz2646]

Hey Sammy, pretty awesome to see what you've got going on in here. Loving the whole cooltube design, especially since it doesn't inhibit light transmission. Very smart!

Got a quick Q I'm hoping you know the answer to. I ordered some Chinese Cob's and it turns out they are 30 mil instead of 45 mil.

Any idea what the benefits are to the larger size?
Are the emitters themselves larger, or is it just a larger area so the heat is easier to deal with?

Much appreciated !

So the 30 mil chips, (from what I know), are thinner (or smaller), and cheaper to manufacture. They are more vulnerable to heat too. You want the higher mil chips

Here is some "general" chip info that discusses the MIL size benefits

http://www.lightinstar.com/led-light/

Wished I could tell you more. . . . I am still learning too,

 

[sammyz2646]

Just some red and blue that will soon be spinning around on the solar revolution in another custom built light I've been planning

 

[sammyz2646]

So back to the convection pipe project. . . .

Again , I will be using a small 4" carbon filter as the beginning of the suction lines from 2 different directions, meeting in the middle , on the opposite side of the entrance to the room, as this is a natural and un-avoidable obstruction.

Where the 2-- 4'pipelines will meet , there will be a 4" x 4" x 6" Tee that shoots up , carrying all the heat and Co2 that pools naturally on the floor, using a 6" inline fan for the workhorse in this design

I wanted the ends to be a gentle long sweep so I elected to use some heavy duty conduit , cause its the perfect size and shape, a bit thick though, but fiberglass was NOT an option based on cost.

That said---- I wanted to utilize the real estate taken up in the 40 inch radius that the sweep spans, and insert some heat sinks into the radius. In a smallish room, 40 inches is a mile, so I must use the sweep and incorporate perhaps 2- 50 watt led's, prior to the main 4" run

Now the insertion of the heat sinks into the regular 4" mainline pipe will be super simple, the thicker sweeps will be another story.

This beginning piece seems semi-challenging, but I overcame the fear of chopping a perfectly good piece of pipe, and went for it---









A rubber mallet did the number to finish it into place, followed by some Gorilla tape to seal the gap

 

[sammyz2646]

To achieve the proper height, spacing, and direction the final position will be aiming----- is another thought that poses some thinking--I chose to cut the sweep to give me the access I needed for the heat sink spacing desired--




1st piece is starting to take shape---
( I cut a ghost piece with a few air ports as temporary intakes to fill the void where the filter will go eventually, so that I could get the build completed with the best accuracy without the actual filter on hand)





And it just so happened that the coupling for the white pipe, fit snugly inside the bigger diameter 4' conduit





The finished height of the "side lighting" LED runs will be approx. 54" for me, here, based on plant size and space

That should be ~ 6 to 12 inches above the perimeter of the canopy----facing the garden, angled slightly downward

I can simply turn the mainline pipe up or down, rotating the heat sink & LED-- to achieve the best angle for different situations, pertaining to plant height

Another mention--- Overall general spacing between heat sinks in the perimeter run will be approx. 15 - 20 inches-- 50 watts per LED


This project may not seem like much at this point, but I am determined to fulfill the vision that, to me--- will be clearly amazing, truly effective, and will improve my garden BIG TIME,

I am certain!!!

Oh yeah, will it be cheap and easy? Nope ! Lets clear that up early-----

 

[3dDream]

Nice to see your idea become a reality!

 

[sammyz2646]

Thanks 3d

So, I made some additional progress today. . .

I had to selectively cut the curved piece (sweep), and obviously tried to minimize the cuts in heavy plastic, that could simply be gorilla taped together , but I insisted to use standard 4" Fernco's at the hard to fit breaks in the pipe run.

I started with the same narrow grooves to insert the sinks--



You can again, see the fit I'm getting And I noticed today, that I mcan choose how much I leave inside the pipe , by simply choosing a slot in this particular heat sink and pounding it in the chosen depth. My future temperature readings will determine these adjustments--



I took this little teenie 4" filter from the veg room cause I'm anxious to get going here, since its the start of this end of the run and will be drawing up vertically from the ground and the second turn will be a horizontal curve--- up above the canopy --on the perimeter of the grow room --



1st piece 90% installed--

All drivers and chips will be installed soon

I love PVC plumbers tape for so many things

 

[sammyz2646]

This would be the 1st horizontal corner piece. ---(mounted about 55 inches above the floor and mounted horizontally) This will attach directly onto the first piece making a perfect turn for the longer , straighter run I look very forward to--- after this piece

I will also note--- that at first, I was fairly concerned about clutter, or spacial issues by adding all this crap in my little precious room, but its location is surprisingly out of the way. High up and close to the perimeter. The corners would make a lovely shelf area or something





I elected to go with 3 LED's in this piece as this allowed for only 1 cut (with bell end remaining intact) and was spatially pleasing

Great thought went into the specific angle that the heat sinks would be facing , once in the heavy conduit, in reference to the canopy. I also knew their placement would be permanent---- as they are in a curve---- and rotating this later will NOT be an option!!! Rotating the angle on the other pieces in this design will be much easier, but these corner pieces must be perfect!
So, as it sits on the floor here, flat, you see that the led's will be facing in and down. I angled them down based on the height they are in the room. (55" inches above the floor) ~12" above the average canopy

 

[exploziv]

Starting to look good, sammy!

 

[flat9]

This is a pretty sweet thread! Love the designs in here. Hope things go well for ya Sammy....

 

[sammyz2646]

Thanks guys for the support, really appreciate it!

 

[sammyz2646]

Making the 2nd turn --



I will also have the corner fan blowing and oscillating down the top and outside of the pipe where the drivers are mounted , preventing any additional heat from pooling near the front of the heat sinks,with a good healthy draft, from each corner in the room. The pipe just so happened to be at the perfect height to use the corner fans----



I'll be doing some wiring tomorrow. . .

I have been dreaming of a HID free flower room for a year or 2 now, and the more I look at this plan, the more I feel that adding an additional 2 runs overhead (with some planning), would allow me to ELIMINATE ALL HID'S in at least this room.

I am not close to achieving this yet , but for the 1st time, I may be able to achieve my ridiculous amount of light expectations, without any HID assistance.

 

[sammyz2646]

Of course , this was not all just thrown together on a hope and a whim.

I started with numerous smaller tests to confirm at least some initial temperature measurements. I built this little test fan/pipe to begin the initial testing to verify if this would be achievable. This is my little test setup with 1-- $8 warm white -- 100 watt-- COB thats running at 48 watts.




I wanted to be assured that this would even work before getting too crazy with $$ and work-- I selected this insertion depth based on measurements and spatial relationships --



A few initial temp readings made me feel confident--

 

[sammyz2646]

After that 1st trial, I then built this on a nearby pipe that was already there---I simply tapped into the already flowing air --inside the pipe





AGAIN, the temps were satisfactory for me to feel confident enough to really go for it---- with up to 10 or 12 LED's in one run prior to being exhausted.


I have yet to lose any of MY led's that I have put into commission , by my engineering --- even the 35 mil chips


I am certain that there will be a few un-intended issues (as there always is), but I hope that with a few small adjustments --combined with the learning curve, that those motivated enough-- could use this idea to brighten their gardens, either indoors, or supplementing an outdoor operation under cover

I wanted to again talk about protecting your precious eyeballs. These LED's are NO JOKE. I have accidentally been tinkering with a wire (or something), and lit up the COB right in my face. Don't do it! OUCH

One final tip with regards to the Chinese COB's--- I am not a electrician , by any means, but looking at the + and - on these Chinese buggers is super confusing, because the positive and negative emblems are on the SAME SIDE! I figured on coloring the bastard with colored ink pens to avoid any stupid moves. Like this--



See what I mean? Weird -- but to note, the side with both emblems------ is the NEGATIVE END

I use red and black electrical tape to keep me in line--cause the other day I hooked up one of these drivers , like a dip-shit, hooked the a/c end up to the COB and the low voltage end to the a/c. UHHHH --- it blew the $13 driver into several pieces, plastic went flying,------- so red and black tape, and don't rip the shatter too hard before getting overly technical. LOL

 

[exploziv]

Be careful man! Better not be working high with high voltages! Good luck, I really think this thread will inspire lots of people by the time you finish your project. Thank you for in detail description of it, too!

 

[hempfield]

Of course , this was not all just thrown together on a hope and a whim.

I started with numerous smaller tests to confirm at least some initial temperature measurements. I built this little test fan/pipe to begin the initial testing to verify if this would be achievable. This is my little test setup with 1-- $8 warm white -- 100 watt-- COB thats running at 48 watts.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=10746&pictureid=1258609&thumb=1]View Image[/url]


I wanted to be assured that this would even work before getting too crazy with $$ and work-- I selected this insertion depth based on measurements and spatial relationships --

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=10746&pictureid=1258544&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

A few initial temp readings made me feel confident--


[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=10746&pictureid=1258624&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=10746&pictureid=1258623&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Be careful when measuring Aluminium temperature with IR gun. It always show temperatures much lower than actual value, because the AL surface reflects the IR beam (the laser is just for pointing) and affect the measurement. For a more accurate measurement you can paint a little spot on the heatsink black and measure the temperature of that spot.

 

[exploziv]

The ir thermometer should have calibration function and you should find the value you need to input into calibration for various surface materials in the thermometer manual. My cheap chinese one has it. Yours is better, should be able to do it somehow, too.

 

[sammyz2646]

I will try and find that calibration setting. And thank you all kindly for your experienced tips. I am all ears! I try, to keep an open-minded approach and be mindful ---to avoid getting tunnel visioned.

Other perspectives--- and experienced LED'ers knowledge--- is golden information for us newcomers (like me), in helping us try and avoid some common mistakes and mishaps that are probably the same mistakes they-- (those w/ experience)-- already made. Thanks guys