TNewell753
New member
When people use these to autowater in coco how does it not create salt buildups and lockouts??
Salt buildup with blumats??
- Thread starter TNewell753
- Start date
M
moodster
i use drip clean all the way through and get zero salt bulidup
drip clean DOES NOT remove salt from the medium...it IS NOT a salt leaching agent....alot of ppl get confused...
drip clean works by lowering the ph of the leftover ferts in the soil(without affecting the ph of the grow medium), so that the plant may eat and use what is left in the soil...same for the drip lines, it will lower the ph of the hardened leftover salts in the drip lines making them liquid again, the lines will clean out and the plants will be able to absorb the nutes.
this is why H&G specificly say ONLY use drip clean if you use it at the start...if you start to use it half way through a grow then it will be like giving your plants a really heavy dose of nutes leading to over fert(which is not the same as salt build up...
to define the difference in salt buildup and over fert....salt build up will go un noticed for weeks, but will gradually loweryour ph, leading to lockout....overfert is where you give your plants a hevy dose of nutes either frying the roots and/or leaves
You sure about that?
Changes the ph of the nutrient, but NOT the medium?
So this magical low ph nutrient, when it hits the medium, all of a sudden does not affect the mediums ph? HUH?
fertilizer salts will become more easily soluble at a lower ph, maing them more easily absorbable than in solid form...
drip clean is the same as pekacid, except that pekacid is used by commercial growers and is much much cheaper than drip clean....and they explain how it works, unlike H&G who would rather keep it a "secret"....ive even emailed them multiple times and got crappy customer service...imo as a company its self H&G have become more like AN..
again to put it simple, drip clean is not a salt leaching agent, itwill simply allow your plant to eat the ferts that may remain left over...so yes drip clean will help with salt buildup, but it is not a salt leaching agent...
G
Guest 18340
I thought Drip clean was a surfactant?
drip clean is a diluted version of pekacid...
http://www.growercentral.com/UPLOADS/PDFS/pekacid%20gh%20program.pdf
http://www.iclfertilizers.com/Fertilizers/Knowledge Center/Pekacid_-_water_and_irrigation.pdf
Drip Clean 24% P2O5 and 8% K2O
PeKacid 60% P2O5 and 20% K2O
24/60=0.4
20 X 0.4= 8
http://www.megawatthydro.com/img/product/description/MSDS-DripClean.pdf
https://customhydronutrients.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_45_104
Pekacid | 0.60.20
PeKacid ™ 0-60-20 is a new, innovative P solution for calcareous soils and hard water.
PeKacid ™ is a new, specially tailored PK fertilizer for fertigation (open-field and soilless culture) under conditions of:
- Acid MKP
- Highly acidic PK fertilizer with pH = 2,2
- Special fertigation grade
- Fully water soluble
- Exceptionally high solubility
- Enhances nutrient uptake
- Anticlogging action
- Chloride, sodium and nitrogen-free
- Easy to transport, store, handle and use.
PeKacid ™ is a solid acid in dry form, combining the advantages and efficiency of phosphoric acid with the ease and safety of handling of a solid crystalline fertilizer such as MKP.
- Hard waters (high pH and high content of bicarbonates HCO3), and/or
- Calcareous soils(with free calcium carbonate CaCO3)
PeKacid™ decreases the pH pf water and soil, thus improving nutrient availability and nutrinet uptake efficiency and increasing yields and quality of crops.
PeKacid™'s acidifying power increases the uptake of many nutrients and helps in releasing fixed micronutrients (Fe, Zn, Mn, Cu) in calcareous /alkaline soils.
PeKacid™ supplies H2PO4 - (orthophosphate) ion, which is readily available form of phosphorus (P). Its acidifying power decreases the P fixation in the fertigated zone of the calcareous soil, thus improving the uptake of phosphorus.
Integrating PeKacid™ in the early season application provides an excellent starter fertilizer, ensuring quick and strong crop development.
Since PeKacid™ is a nitrogen-free fertilizer; it allows full and independent control over the N level in the fertigation program, either by choosing the best form of complementary N or by refraining from N application, in accordance with the requirements of the crop.
In soluble NPK formulae containing PeKacid™, calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) fertilizers can be mixed. PeKacid™ could be mixed with Urea easily, so the Nitrogen cost will be decreased in NPK mixes
Keep the System Clean
PeKacid™ provides acidity to neutralize and dissolve bicarbonates, thus avoiding the problem of scaling and clogging of pipes and emitters/nozzles in the sensitive drip irrigation system:
Increased longevity of drip irrigation system is an additional special benefit when applying PeKacid™ under subsurface drip irrigation
- Longer lifespan of the irrigation systems.
- Uniform and efficient distribution of irrigation water and fertilizers.
- Less work needed.
- No additional acid needed.
drip clean has kept my blumat lines from getting any salt buildup, i dont get salt build up on the smart pots as i have when i didnt use drip clean. just saying it has kept my drippers running clean. no salt rings around the inside of rez etc...I would have to say that it does something to prevent salts from building up just from my personal experience with it(3+ years doing runs with and without it) not saying your chemistry breakdown is wrong by any means, just that the product has worked out the way it was supposed to work in my personal situation and I will continue to use it.
yes, that is the point, it works the way its is supposed to and the way it is advertised, all i was trying to say is that the public(buyers) are the ones who get it confused....
im one who if i see something works for me i like to get down to the bottom of it and find out how it works, so i can better understand it and how to use it to its full benefit.
just on a side note..PeKacid is marketed for the same thing, keeping drip lines clean of salt build up...
T
TribalSeeds
From the Drip Clean FAQ:
WARNING: IF INTRODUCING DRIP CLEAN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CYCLE, IT CAN RELEASE SALTS AND NUTRIENTS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN STORED UP IN THE MEDIUM. THIS MAY BURN YOUR PLANTS OR CAUSE A NUTRIENT LOCKOUT OR BOTH. IT IS RECOMMENDED TO USE DRIP CLEAN FROM THE BEGINNING FOR THE BEST RESULTS.
Ive read on H&G's site that if introducing it in the middle of the grow it should be added at 1/2 strength. I think Ive posted that info on the boards before, but cant find it now.
Istarted using a couple of weeks after using Blumats and didnt notice a problem at that time and I had been seriously over feeding the plants. If anything Ive had an improvement.
Its an ionic binder. It binds ions
I use drip clean every so often, maybe once every 2-3 res changes......
I keep forgetting to use it...
Never heard that you HAVE to use it from the beginning, maybe its a new thing they are saying, been using drip clean for 4+ years I think, maybe longer..
T
TribalSeeds
"for best results"
Same here... I forget I just got the stuff and forget to add it. No issues with it so far.
D
DHF
Joe.......I respect the way you look at things and always have.......but.....
Without a shadow of a doubt with oh so many 100`s of GrowBro`s at the invite only medsites as well as here , dripclean @ 1 ml per gal with coco has been shown over and over again to use it`s "Ionic" properties to latch onto and flush out residual salt buildup and make DTW in coco all but obsolete with the guys that`re doin this for a living.....now....
I`m in full agreeance with you as far as chemistry and makeup are concerned , and it was learned several yrs back that dripclean @.4 ml per gal kept the drip setups clean , but when increased to 1 ml per gal all the white crusty shit builtup on folks runin too high of a nutrient concentration from the get........went away.......so.....that said.....
In my lil world the way I learned in fast hydro and then coco before retirement , ......as plants eat their juice.....ph rises gradually and ppm`s drop in a dialed low ppm solution to as you said not retain any extra salts in the first place.......and.....
If pekacid can be diluted down to the same formula as dripclean to help growers continue to reap the benefits at a much reduced cost , then that`s beneficial to the community and needs to be shared , but even though dripcelan`s expensive.......
It`s pretty fuckin cheap @ 1 ml per gal doseage from the results I`ve seen with many many big grows in the last few yrs since it`s been known for what it can do..... again....
Much respect for the makeup and chemistry behind said product , but No one`s reported ph fluctuation ever once dripclean was addied in their mix , and all the phosphorous and potassium I ever added to my juice had a tendency to raise ph levels and had to be adjusted back , but I digress cuz it depends mostly on base nutes.....
I suppose not being able to run commercial drip fed setups for dope makes us unknowing laymen.....and.....I loathe Hydro Whore manufacturers ....... especially Advanced Nutrients hype campaign since NPK is NPK...... but again.......
I`ve said this on numerous occasions that in the 20 yrs of growin inside I never saw anything new under the sun for bullshit additive and bloom boosters.......I did however get gifted H&G`s roots excellurator before I shutdown and that was some amazing shit. .... and...
Dripclean is the equivalent to the second coming of Christ for commercial dope growers runnin coco in Medville guaranteed.......
Never knew it was comprised of simple nutrient combo`s though......like you said H&G`s keeping a secret but the dilution factor @ 1 ml per gal used begiining to end is crucial to no residual salt buildups that most definitely will drop ph , cause lockouts and plants will shut down without the dripclean if running ppm`s over 2 EC ....
Never ran over 750 ppm`s with my setup`s once Heath showed me less was more......and .....still wasted the shit outta nutes DTW in my coco setups cuz dripclean wasn`t around at the time.....
Thanks for the input Joe......but somethin`s goin on with dripclean`s dilution factor with dopegrowers in coco that`s evidently unexplained......
Looking forward to a cheap alternative dilution formula for pekacid to replace dripclean and the Hell with H&G.......but then there`s the root`s excellurator.....that shit works.....is there a replacement for it too ?.....
Peace....DHF...
.....
Without a shadow of a doubt with oh so many 100`s of GrowBro`s at the invite only medsites as well as here , dripclean @ 1 ml per gal with coco has been shown over and over again to use it`s "Ionic" properties to latch onto and flush out residual salt buildup and make DTW in coco all but obsolete with the guys that`re doin this for a living.....now....
I`m in full agreeance with you as far as chemistry and makeup are concerned , and it was learned several yrs back that dripclean @.4 ml per gal kept the drip setups clean , but when increased to 1 ml per gal all the white crusty shit builtup on folks runin too high of a nutrient concentration from the get........went away.......so.....that said.....
In my lil world the way I learned in fast hydro and then coco before retirement , ......as plants eat their juice.....ph rises gradually and ppm`s drop in a dialed low ppm solution to as you said not retain any extra salts in the first place.......and.....
If pekacid can be diluted down to the same formula as dripclean to help growers continue to reap the benefits at a much reduced cost , then that`s beneficial to the community and needs to be shared , but even though dripcelan`s expensive.......
It`s pretty fuckin cheap @ 1 ml per gal doseage from the results I`ve seen with many many big grows in the last few yrs since it`s been known for what it can do..... again....
Much respect for the makeup and chemistry behind said product , but No one`s reported ph fluctuation ever once dripclean was addied in their mix , and all the phosphorous and potassium I ever added to my juice had a tendency to raise ph levels and had to be adjusted back , but I digress cuz it depends mostly on base nutes.....
I suppose not being able to run commercial drip fed setups for dope makes us unknowing laymen.....and.....I loathe Hydro Whore manufacturers ....... especially Advanced Nutrients hype campaign since NPK is NPK...... but again.......
I`ve said this on numerous occasions that in the 20 yrs of growin inside I never saw anything new under the sun for bullshit additive and bloom boosters.......I did however get gifted H&G`s roots excellurator before I shutdown and that was some amazing shit. .... and...
Dripclean is the equivalent to the second coming of Christ for commercial dope growers runnin coco in Medville guaranteed.......
Never knew it was comprised of simple nutrient combo`s though......like you said H&G`s keeping a secret but the dilution factor @ 1 ml per gal used begiining to end is crucial to no residual salt buildups that most definitely will drop ph , cause lockouts and plants will shut down without the dripclean if running ppm`s over 2 EC ....
Never ran over 750 ppm`s with my setup`s once Heath showed me less was more......and .....still wasted the shit outta nutes DTW in my coco setups cuz dripclean wasn`t around at the time.....
Thanks for the input Joe......but somethin`s goin on with dripclean`s dilution factor with dopegrowers in coco that`s evidently unexplained......
Looking forward to a cheap alternative dilution formula for pekacid to replace dripclean and the Hell with H&G.......but then there`s the root`s excellurator.....that shit works.....is there a replacement for it too ?.....
Peace....DHF...
.....
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i understand what your saying dhf, seeing is believing, but im tellin y its the same stuff...
D
DHF
On your side Joe.......
Are we sure that Avenger`s formula`s exact cuz I`ll spread the word like wildfire.........
All I was saying is that @ the . 4 ml per gal H&G`s recommending....it don`t work for residual salt buildup , but @ 1 ml per gal does.....and.....
If it`s the same shit , let`s let folks know and see if it does what dripclean does.......I have a hard time with all my oldhead growbro`s cuz they do consistent shit and what works for them makes em hard to change........so....again......
Thanks Bro.....DHF.....
.....
T
TribalSeeds
On your side Joe.......
Are we sure that Avenger`s formula`s exact cuz I`ll spread the word like wildfire.........
All I was saying is that @ the . 4 ml per gal H&G`s recommending....it don`t work for residual salt buildup , but @ 1 ml per gal does.....and.....
If it`s the same shit , let`s let folks know and see if it does what dripclean does.......I have a hard time with all my oldhead growbro`s cuz they do consistent shit and what works for them makes em hard to change........so....again......
Thanks Bro.....DHF.....
Also from the H&G website.
Can you add too much Drip Clean? I might have accidentally doubled the drip clean in my last reservoir fill up.
At more than twice the recommended dose, I would start over with your reservoir.
That being said, I actually applied drip clean at 1ml per gallon the first time I used it(following advice from IC members) and saw no ill effects. That was in the middle of a grow that I had already had a build up on and was still over feeding.
T
TribalSeeds
Joe.......I respect the way you look at things and always have.......but.....
Without a shadow of a doubt with oh so many 100`s of GrowBro`s at the invite only medsites as well as here , dripclean @ 1 ml per gal with coco has been shown over and over again to use it`s "Ionic" properties to latch onto and flush out residual salt buildup and make DTW in coco all but obsolete with the guys that`re doin this for a living.....now....
I`m in full agreeance with you as far as chemistry and makeup are concerned , and it was learned several yrs back that dripclean @.4 ml per gal kept the drip setups clean , but when increased to 1 ml per gal all the white crusty shit builtup on folks runin too high of a nutrient concentration from the get........went away.......so.....that said.....
In my lil world the way I learned in fast hydro and then coco before retirement , ......as plants eat their juice.....ph rises gradually and ppm`s drop in a dialed low ppm solution to as you said not retain any extra salts in the first place.......and.....
If pekacid can be diluted down to the same formula as dripclean to help growers continue to reap the benefits at a much reduced cost , then that`s beneficial to the community and needs to be shared , but even though dripcelan`s expensive.......
It`s pretty fuckin cheap @ 1 ml per gal doseage from the results I`ve seen with many many big grows in the last few yrs since it`s been known for what it can do..... again....
Much respect for the makeup and chemistry behind said product , but No one`s reported ph fluctuation ever once dripclean was addied in their mix , and all the phosphorous and potassium I ever added to my juice had a tendency to raise ph levels and had to be adjusted back , but I digress cuz it depends mostly on base nutes.....
I suppose not being able to run commercial drip fed setups for dope makes us unknowing laymen.....and.....I loathe Hydro Whore manufacturers ....... especially Advanced Nutrients hype campaign since NPK is NPK...... but again.......
I`ve said this on numerous occasions that in the 20 yrs of growin inside I never saw anything new under the sun for bullshit additive and bloom boosters.......I did however get gifted H&G`s roots excellurator before I shutdown and that was some amazing shit. .... and...
Dripclean is the equivalent to the second coming of Christ for commercial dope growers runnin coco in Medville guaranteed.......
Never knew it was comprised of simple nutrient combo`s though......like you said H&G`s keeping a secret but the dilution factor @ 1 ml per gal used begiining to end is crucial to no residual salt buildups that most definitely will drop ph , cause lockouts and plants will shut down without the dripclean if running ppm`s over 2 EC ....
Never ran over 750 ppm`s with my setup`s once Heath showed me less was more......and .....still wasted the shit outta nutes DTW in my coco setups cuz dripclean wasn`t around at the time.....
Thanks for the input Joe......but somethin`s goin on with dripclean`s dilution factor with dopegrowers in coco that`s evidently unexplained......
Looking forward to a cheap alternative dilution formula for pekacid to replace dripclean and the Hell with H&G.......but then there`s the root`s excellurator.....that shit works.....is there a replacement for it too ?.....
Peace....DHF...
Also from the H&G site.
What is Drip Clean and what does it do?
Drip Clean is a completely safe agent for your plants provided it is used in the right proportions. Drip Clean contains potassium and phosphorous compounds, two very powerful and useful elements, from which one particle has been removed as it were. This makes the incomplete element into kind of a magnet because molecules always seek a complete structure. Drip Clean attracts the dirt and salt prticles each time the plants are fed.
Is Drip Clean considered to be a PK boost product?
No, Drip Clean is not considered to be a PK boost product because of the low dose that is used.
Im not sure, maybe I missed something in the thread. Hopefully that will clear some stuff up.
Pekacid is highly acidic and is supposed to adjust the ph. Maybe at the doses we are talking about this might not be an issue. Has anyone tried the stuff?
I havent even checked the math because I use so little drip clean(.4ml). A $30 bottle should last me atleast 2-3 2400W grows, no waste water. It seems so cheap its not worth my time to calculate.
Pekacid
Typical Analysis
PeKacid Replaces other Phosphorus and Potassium Fertilizers
PeKacid provides chlorine free phosphorus and potassium. It can replace any other source of phosphorus fertilizer such as phosphoric acid or MAP. It also replaces part of potassium .nitrate or potassium sulfate PeKacid contains no nitrogen thus a nitrogen fertilization should be added upon crop’s needs .
PeKacid 0-60-20
pH 2.2
Phosphoric Acid 85% 0-61-0
pH 1.0
MAP 12-61-0 pH 4.7
MKP 0-52-34 pH 4.5
Urea Phosphate 18-44-0
Shit, i dont even measure anymore...
1/2 capfull to 27 gallon res, I know im close to 1 ml per gallon...
Drip Clean IS the shit, buy your base nutrients, ph up and down, some calmag, drip clean and your ready to get down....
