Never tried it. Passive recovery with propane would require recovery temperatures below -42C/-43.6F.
You could do that with an alcohol bath and dry ice.
Running a CLS Passive Recovery?
- Thread starter krunchbubble
- Start date
Never tried it. Passive recovery with propane would require recovery temperatures below -42C/-43.6F.
hobb3s93
Member
ok i think i see what u guys are talking about now. so propane has a lower boiling point than butane? thus i would need to keep it colder to reduce pressure and keep it liquid?
i think im sold on the recovery pump just because it seems like im gonna be doing alot of extra work to achieve the same results with out it.
what are the differences of recovering propane (instead of butane) with a rc pump?
is there a thread i can refer too as far as the cotton candy/cold purge muffin method?
thanx for all ur help guys , should be ordering cls within a week or two .
i think im sold on the recovery pump just because it seems like im gonna be doing alot of extra work to achieve the same results with out it.
what are the differences of recovering propane (instead of butane) with a rc pump?
is there a thread i can refer too as far as the cotton candy/cold purge muffin method?
thanx for all ur help guys , should be ordering cls within a week or two .
Lono
Member
Check out the CPS-TR21
. Needs a heat exchanger, but even then you're spending around the same as an appion.If I remember correctly, to do the cotton candy/cold muffin purge, you need recover to -22"hg, pull a full vac on your collection pot, and hold it for 5-10 minutes. Not sure if you have to keep your hot water bath under 85* or not, but retaining carboxylic acid probably wouldn't hurt in having a nice stable muffin.
so with the regular 30 tank using it upside down from the vapor port lets the vacuum in the system draw the liquid butane out of the tank threw the material tube?
when i flip the tank up right and let it sit lower that the injection tee before i disconnect it what is the reason for that?
Do i Need to Re pull a vacuum on the tank before i recover from the pot?
Also could i use dry ice with the regular tank or is that a bad idea due to the not ss valves? i have a ss one on order it will just be a few weeks, i would like to try to run subzero and try subzero 0psi as well like brett mavrick.Really want to just try most peoples methods and see what works best from trail and error and maybe even combine peoples techs together
Chonkski
Member
My input
thanks for the Input Chonkski! you confirmed all my thoughts, getting my cls today so it will soon be time for my first cls run!
The Valves or ports i suppose are the ones on top of the regular #30 storage tank, they are brass so i was wondering if i should or should use dry ice around them
Chonkski
Member
Ohh, I see what you mean. No you're fine. They are intended for high pressure refrigerant, it can handle propane and dry ice. Just make sure you are using ptfe gaskets, high pressure clamps, and SS braid hoses that are suitable. You're 30# tank will do fine.
hobb3s93
Member
so should i swap out the buna gaskets for ptfe on my terpp?
does the terpp come with high pressure clamps or would i need to switch these too?
I'm still not quite clear on the difference when running propane...
but thanx for all the advice i gotta look up that cotton candy
hobb3s93
Member
Check out the CPS-TR21
If I remember correctly, to do the cotton candy/cold muffin purge, you need recover to -22"hg, pull a full vac on your collection pot, and hold it for 5-10 minutes. Not sure if you have to keep your hot water bath under 85* or not, but retaining carboxylic acid probably wouldn't hurt in having a nice stable muffin.
will do , still just learning at this point so I'm unclear what a heat exchanger does but i will look it up. I've heard app ion doesn't have a very long life before they break or need to be repaired. is the cps-tr21 "superior" to appion in any way? or simply better priced?
thanx for the help lono , what size terpp u rocking? did u swap anything out on yours? or just running it how it came?
You can extend the life and an appion, or any recovery pump by regulating it when its in use. I never let mine pull below -15 and only cut it on when gauge is reading positive pressure.
The heat exchanger is a molecular transformer
The cps tr21 is a different beast and runs a lot hotter, this mean you need the mt-69 heat exchanger to help cool/condense the gas before your tank, prolonging the life of your ice and increasing recovery speeds.
Copper is not the best and its pretty easy to turn a SS wort chillier into a mt-69 with a few compression fittings, i can post pics if needed.
Lono
Member
What perm said about the appion and tr21. Another benefit of making your own heat exchanger out of SS is that you can make it 3/8" as opposed to the mt69's 1/4" fittings, which allows you to chill it in dry ice and alcohol. Gray Wolf has a pretty nifty one set up, as does perm.
I have a 3x18" column and a 6x12" collection pot on my terpenator right now. Not sure what size that translates to. 1lb maybe? I built mine like a DIY, so I've had high pressure clamps and PTFE gaskets from the start. I've also been using SS overbraid PTFE hoses, which I got from Terpp.
Other than that, totally 'stock'. I did switch to running top feed recently. Left everything in place except I removed my vent hose. Connected a hose from the liquid valve on the recovery cylinder directly to the top of the column, no ball valve. Haven't used my dump valve the past two runs either. Had great results.
The Mk IVB and VB series Terpenators all have top flush capabilities, so you can shower extract by just switching valves.
You can high grade a column first by showering from the top for show and tell, and I know folks who do, but my own experience is that the yield is better flooding from the bottom.
The commercial extractors that I know who first shower from the top, return to flood and extract from the bottom, for a lower grade of their concentrates to be marketed to the medibles industry.
Chonkski
Member
I just decided to flood three times usually and then shower at the end until I see the stream run clear. I believe that I am running pretty efficiently for maximum yields, I then dump warm Etoh in as soon as I open her up. And funnel it into a flask and straight to the freezer it goes for winterization.
Been working wonders for me
Been working wonders for me
hobb3s93
Member
thanx for the advice everybody.
but im still kinda confused about why i one would choose to get the tr21 and molecular transformer.
does the appion still preform the same function as the tr21 with the MT?
or is the advantage to getting the tr21 w/ mt that u can quickly reclaim when running cryo? because i thought ive read that apppion cant handle any liquid(very cold solvent)?
so a standard terpp doesnt come with high pressure clamps? isnt it designed to be used with propane as well?
the thing im still kinda lost on is why propane needs high pressure clamps ? i though u run it colder thus the pressure would be lower?
where would be the best place to get high pressure clamps and ptfe gaskets? glacier tank?
sorry to ask so many questions...
but im still kinda confused about why i one would choose to get the tr21 and molecular transformer.
does the appion still preform the same function as the tr21 with the MT?
or is the advantage to getting the tr21 w/ mt that u can quickly reclaim when running cryo? because i thought ive read that apppion cant handle any liquid(very cold solvent)?
so a standard terpp doesnt come with high pressure clamps? isnt it designed to be used with propane as well?
the thing im still kinda lost on is why propane needs high pressure clamps ? i though u run it colder thus the pressure would be lower?
where would be the best place to get high pressure clamps and ptfe gaskets? glacier tank?
sorry to ask so many questions...
icdog
Member
The tr21 and the appion are the same thing, a refrigerant recovery pump but they operate sorta differently.
The mt69 is a coil that cools the solvent coming from the recovery pump into the tank.
The mt69 works with either pump but the tr21 needs it since it gets hot.
GW and a few others sorted that the tr21 is a better pump to use then the appion for a few reasons. Either will likely die after a certain amount of use.
I don't think any of the pumps like liquid solvent, but you use a liquid line filter drier and you make sure you know how to operate the cls so you don't overfill the collection pot.
The mt69 is a coil that cools the solvent coming from the recovery pump into the tank.
The mt69 works with either pump but the tr21 needs it since it gets hot.
GW and a few others sorted that the tr21 is a better pump to use then the appion for a few reasons. Either will likely die after a certain amount of use.
I don't think any of the pumps like liquid solvent, but you use a liquid line filter drier and you make sure you know how to operate the cls so you don't overfill the collection pot.
RegisPhilburn1
Member
The tr21 should be faster because it has a 1hp motor vs the 1/2hp appion. Some have said that it might be safer for flammable refrigerant because the motor is isolated from the compressor. With a stainless after cooler, it would also have much less copper/brass then the appion, so might win in the clean department as well. I have a tr21 on order to try out, should be in next week. Just couldn't bring myself to buy my 6th appion.
Wut he said......anyone in OR want a full time job repairing pumps?! We've got enough to keep u busy!! Haskel here I come!
Chonkski
Member
