Repoductive Systems & Breeding Plans - "Biological Foundations of Plant Breeding"

[Weird]

Nothing much came of that tom, it was more to do with creating so called "true dioecious" lines... better to just find the XY dioecious with the marker and self that. If it was something one wished to do... (I'm more concerned with females, of all types ).. for the next few months I won't be able to do anything... I had to clear my shit out last night.. as I'm more or less being watched, fucking voyeurs, and as they say having my collar felt a whole lot too much... hence my pad is clean for their little visit... ****s

Ps: if people can.. always always back shit up.....

Sincerely sorry to hear about your troubles. It sucks. Yeah backups saved my ass regardless of how it happened.

There is a reason many people in America won't run more than 100 plants at a time and it has nothing to do with being afraid to read a book and everything to do with federal asset seizure and imprisonment laws.

 

[Tom Hill]

Pondered that Weird, for 3 decades now amigo. I'll push these numbers when I know I can for a few weeks here or there for the sake of selection, but for the most part I'll still limit myself to double digits on most properties when it matters for the reasons you touch. So let's say that now you get to grow 99. What will you do, grab 2.5 of exceptionals from 50 girls, will you go deeper into lessor scores to make your selections? Will you smell males and decide how many of those out of 50 are worth further investigation? Accept that this is by guess and by golly scenario that has you planting crystals around your garden, and even if it works, it is 3 time less efficient than looking at the top 5% (5) of females and selfing them to see what's what. Scale this down to the closet grower, and the maths remain the same. There is just not much of reason to toss the science in favor of hippie-dippie shit. If there was, shit man I am fairly heady, I would entertain it, but there just, isn't.

 

[Aardwolf]

The way you go on Tom sounds like there is no point in the male plant.

Males have got us this far, to the peak of potency, I wonder what the males can do for viability among other things like adding cannabinoids that aren’t present in the xx side of the Helix, there is two sides to it after all.

 

[Tom Hill]

Dave,,,,,,DAVE,,, you didn't really think we would let you get away with this did you? Hahaha, you absolute clown. It is as I said from the beginning, a fly to be swatted at with extreme prejudice. How many different handles do you need to sign up to assure us of your sophomoric knowledge being complete? Dave is in school now guys, and like every young surfer when he first stands up, he thinks he is one bad shedda now, lol. Classic, absolutely classic dave, you're pretty funny man.

 

[Tom Hill]

How many other handles do you need to have set up matedave/cannaboy/aardwolf? Maybe if you approach from right-left center field next time you can slither this bs into our minds? tehee, good luck with all that amigo. Just get spanked, and then line up again for another spanking under yet another handle, yes, good plan sweetheart, lol

 

[Tom Hill]

"I can honestly say that just having spent a few years studying that not many of you have a grasp of the basics. I mean no offence but you cannot comprehend to understand something without learning the basics...Therefore I cannot continue being any help because you don't know enough to converse with without explaining the correct terminology and procedures....Try learning to grow properly before jumping in at the deep end making it difficult for people to learn because of all the dribble, and mis-information. It is simple when you know what's happening. Try to learn.....This is not your thread to post your comments in, it is a thread to read and learn from.....I assure you that my understandings of botany and biology are comprehensive I have nothing to hide.....Fortunately, exact knowledge is unnecessary.....The alternative option of producing seed via (chemical reversal) to grow as a fast grown crop for sinsemilla production is not for the wise grower! I assure you that my understandings of botany and biology are comprehensive I have nothing to hide...."

Ladies and gentleman, this is Matt, it's hard to hear some of what he's saying because of the overwhelming amount of man gargle in his mouth, but I tip my hat to you anyway Matt, a splendid affair, but all clown things must come to an end.

 

[Aardwolf]

Rather that being childish Tom, why not elaborate. It is obvious you feel threatened by some information. What is it you don't want people to know. It clear you don't want people to use male plants, It sounds from all your rantings that Matt Dave has portrayed a breeding plan and you don't agree with the concept of that plan. What plan is this I see no plan, The things described are what got cannabis to where it was in the 90's and today, the successful formula which created the seeds of all the original cup winners.

 

[Tom Hill]

I have elaborated, in PM's and publicly, many times over now, for you and your various handles (really dude, and you call me childish?) and it's getting pretty old but here we go again..

Matt, you can not take whatever it is you think you've learned from Hempy and Jesse, Nevil and whoever the fuck else over there, blend it with these copy/pastes you clearly have a hard time comprehending, and come up with some male phyllotaxy hack job of a breeding scheme that will make any sense whatsoever,,, it just doesn't work like that man.

Why would I be threatened(?), I actually understand what the authors you are plagiarizing are saying and have the additional benefit of not trying to make it all fit into/or answer for some artsie-fartsie breeding scheme. I understand that you want to take your education for a spin dude, but it seems you are not yet ready and are just doing more harm than good, so sigh, you need to be stopped or at the very least your roll slowed a bunch, and I am just the huckleberry you are looking for, sunshine.

I do not need to wait for your breeding plans to emerge I have already heard them from you previously and when we read things like "The alternative option of producing seed via (chemical reversal) to grow as a fast grown crop for sinsemilla production is not for the wise grower!" slipped in there in between you trying to sound smart with other folks' words, then we have heard quite enough.

Stop saying things like that and I will not have to continue straightening you out. Use male/female schemes if you want (I outlined one for you previously), but just realize that it is less efficient. Successful formula my ass, as you copy/pasted pure lines will benefit from being hybridized, and you don't really need to know what you are doing to realize that. It seems your argument is that if some clown like Nevil can make you happy with his backyard puppy mill hack job dog breeding approach, then those methods should be good enough for all.

Well, they aren't.

Is that enough of an elaboration for you, sweetheart?

 

[Aardwolf]

Not really Tom it's a bit negative and bias, you don't like Neville do you.

I'm getting to the point in the textbook that most of the authors and breeders suggest which is to Open-pollinate first to increase in the heterozygote and obtain all manner of possible plants to further the breeding with if necessary. Once this 'Breeders seed' is produced, using the Plans and techniques you describe the process of elimination can begin.

(We can make F2 seed using the methods described in the first few posts of this thread and like Tom says Ear to Row.)

I understand also what your saying about taking the top 5% and performing a Top-cross. Or going direct into a program of female progeny to find the desired goal.

I'm on about divergence and preservation in seed type where plant count means nothing because its seed.

The route to obtain licensing for research and development for industrial purposes etc is long and windy there are many hurdles.

Cannabis at this point in time is fully pampered and outlawed to the point that it is seldom Ruderalis. I don't know if it could survive in the wild with all the environmental change and hemp 'terminator' pollen flying about, the hemp pollen is non viable in the second year typically as we witnessed in the UK fields.

There is a need for Open pollination at the start of a breeding program and to bulk produce seed for further breeding and again to produce seed for sale.

You cant just base a new breed on this self breeding, it is part of a breeding plan, and must be combined with other methods to produce species. You would have to be real lucky to hit it right first time without selecting wisely for the group of genes held tightly together mechanically by various mechanisms and inherited as a single unit desired further in the programme.

You can produce a line from 1 plant yes, absolutely, but to pick the plant fist time which has all the needed genetic material for what is needed to go the distance, without an out-cross is hard to fathom, parallel lines are needed.

True art is to conceal art.

 

[bombadil.360]

Traditionally the old practice of early farmers and early breeders was to select numerous plants with particulars in mind and other characteristics they believed to be favourable, thereafter generation after generation they grew out the next generation or generations from mixtures of seed produced on selected plants the previous generation.

Such mass selection without progeny testing is the original and the simplest breeding method, historically it has been the most widely used method for breeding all seed-propagated crops, including Cannabis.

that's pretty much incorrect.

traditional farmers of drug cannabis did and still do test the progeny; and selection is pretty much based on it.

selecting just by looks and smell is short-sighted, even by the standards of what some would incorrectly consider 'traditional, old time farmers'.

testing was done through consumption, and seeds obtained from the preferred samples.

for example, this has been true in Colombia, and well described by traditional farmers.

it is pretty condescending to think that man would not naturally do this, even if there were no recorded stories of man doing it, as he has actually done for a very long time.

in the article published in the Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 1981, The Religious and Medicinal uses of Cannabis in China, India and Tibet, by M Touw, it is mentioned how certain individuals out of populations were sought, for their special effects in relation to specific applications.

people really need to stop dissing traditional methods, when they have not understood the full implication of what it means to work with drug cannabis season after season, being fully devoted to such, without much interest except to produce an end product of real actual pragmatical value. without the fear of our modern unjust laws, without any limitations.

get your heads out of your euro-centric, modern hailing butt for once.

 

[Aardwolf]

that's pretty much incorrect.

traditional farmers of drug cannabis did and still do test the progeny; and selection is pretty much based on it.

selecting just by looks and smell is short-sighted, even by the standards of what some would incorrectly consider 'traditional, old time farmers'.

testing was done through consumption, and seeds obtained from the preferred samples.

for example, this has been true in Colombia, and well described by traditional farmers.

it is pretty condescending to think that man would not naturally do this, even if there were no recorded stories of man doing it, as he has actually done for a very long time.

in the article published in the Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 1981, The Religious and Medicinal uses of Cannabis in China, India and Tibet, by M Touw, it is mentioned how certain individuals out of populations were sought, for their special effects in relation to specific applications.

people really need to stop dissing traditional methods, when they have not understood the full implication of what it means to work with drug cannabis season after season, being fully devoted to such, without much interest except to produce an end product of real actual pragmatical value. without the fear of our modern unjust laws, without any limitations.

get your heads out of your euro-centric, modern hailing butt for once.

Yes defiantly selection was made from consumption perspective after the previous year failed to produce the minerals.

 

[bombadil.360]

Use male/female schemes if you want (I outlined one for you previously), but just realize that it is less efficient.

for the sake of clarity, this 'less efficient' only relates to time.

that is, time needed to observe (up to the point that we actually can) how a certain population and its individuals tend to behave.

apart from that, there's not much else efficiency. probably also in numbers needed.; which is only a plus due to the beastly prohibition.

peace

 

[bombadil.360]

Yes defiantly selection was made from consumption perspective after the previous year failed to produce the minerals.

wait, what? can you rephrase that? was that english?

 

[Tom Hill]

Not really Tom it's a bit negative and bias, you don't like Neville do you.

I'm getting to the point in the textbook that most of the authors and breeders suggest which is to Open-pollinate first to increase in the heterozygote and obtain all manner of possible plants to further the breeding with if necessary. Once this 'Breeders seed' is produced, using the Plans and techniques you describe the process of elimination can begin.

(We can make F2 seed using the methods described in the first few posts of this thread and like Tom says Ear to Row.)

I understand also what your saying about taking the top 5% and performing a Top-cross. Or going direct into a program of female progeny to find the desired goal.

I'm on about divergence and preservation in seed type where plant count means nothing because its seed.

The route to obtain licensing for research and development for industrial purposes etc is long and windy there are many hurdles.

Cannabis at this point in time is fully pampered and outlawed to the point that it is seldom Ruderalis. I don't know if it could survive in the wild with all the environmental change and hemp 'terminator' pollen flying about, the hemp pollen is non viable in the second year typically as we witnessed in the UK fields.

There is a need for Open pollination at the start of a breeding program and to bulk produce seed for further breeding and again to produce seed for sale.

You cant just base a new breed on this self breeding, it is part of a breeding plan, and must be combined with other methods to produce species. You would have to be real lucky to hit it right first time without selecting wisely for the group of genes held tightly together mechanically by various mechanisms and inherited as a single unit desired further in the programme. P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; }A:link { }A group of genes held tightly together mechanically by various mechanisms and inherited as a single unit. P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; }A:link { }

You can produce a line from 1 plant yes, absolutely, but to pick the plant fist time which has all the needed genetic material for what is needed to go the distance without an out-cross is hard to fathom parallel lines are needed.

True art is to conceal art.

No I do not like Nevil he is a douche of a human being and has bred a bunch of ignorance, ignorance that is now spreading like a cancer throughout the cannabis community. What the fuck is there to like about any of that.

I understand the need to have open-pollinated seed stock set aside before indulging in more aggressive breeding strategies and have been preaching that since pre-overgrow. Do you, does Nevil? Where are any of your guys' open-pollinated lines?

There are no terminator cannabis lines anywhere, you have no idea what you are on about, this is the type of bullshit you fill your mind with when you read drivel from the likes of Nevil et al.

 

[Aardwolf]

I use terminator in a loose sense Tom, there is no genetic modification at play in the hemp cultivar. It has probably been inbreed so much that pollen of the same type will not fertilize the calyx and the pollen will not take on any female stock plants of other varieties, basically the genome is locked, like the seed types from Monsanto where seed has to be purchased year in and out.

If this was not the case feral weed would get everywhere, adapt and acclimatize. The seed that sets is non viable in the types grown for seed, the pollen is viable only to those females of the crop producing seed.

The type we seen for a season couldn't be out-crossed. The seed type would not be allowed to be grown under law if the divergent species could recombine!


What are the regulations with you child’s mothers plants?

 

[Tom Hill]

I use terminator in a loose sense Tom,

Yes well stop doing so, especially after making comments like:

""I can honestly say that just having spent a few years studying that not many of you have a grasp of the basics. I mean no offence but you cannot comprehend to understand something without learning the basics...Therefore I cannot continue being any help because you don't know enough to converse with without explaining the correct terminology and procedures....Try learning to grow properly before jumping in at the deep end making it difficult for people to learn because of all the dribble, and mis-information."

 

[stickshift]

Sincerely sorry to hear about your troubles. It sucks. Yeah backups saved my ass regardless of how it happened.

There is a reason many people in America won't run more than 100 plants at a time and it has nothing to do with being afraid to read a book and everything to do with federal asset seizure and imprisonment laws.

Don't sweat it, some things I'm told are ok... my shit was cleared and nothing to find with me, just them telling me all about me .. no door kicked in or anything... just them giving me what they termed "good advice".. just makes ya a lil paranoid...

Ps @ TH, hope all went well on the 20th or there about

 

[Tom Hill]

Thanks amigo, 10&10 no flippers or fins Mommy and baby are fine and I am stoked.

Sorry to hear of your temporary misfortune but glad to hear you are rolling with the punches in an appropriate manner, one step ahead brother.

 

[stickshift]

good to hear all's well, I was all angry and shit but fuck it... still here to soldier on... hahaha webbed feet are the norm in lots of parts the UK... (she's just my cousin, it's not like she's my sister I once heard... like they aren't enough people out there.. haha sickos everywhere)..

be good...

 

[Aardwolf]

Did I just hit the sore spot!