"Reasonable Suspicion" could allow Arizona cops to pull you over

[Cinderella99]

First of all Sarcasm, I completely agree with you regarding your remarks about the neocon agenda...It's all that and more...

Q: "...What argument do have for the tremendous number of displacements in construction? How about restaurants? Factories?"

A: When the greater economy melts down due to massive banking fraud - between opaque derivatives and house of card financial investment tool technology, all "guaranteed" by overseas insurers like AIG whose branch CEO's are trying to hit big volume in order to bonus hard before retirement and when even the sophisticated institutions that are buying these "investments" don't understand them....The system has run amuck-- ---- the economy at large goes down and everybody, including the diner waitresses, are effected. Think massive, multi-national ponzi scheme when everybody involved calls Bullshit at the same time....

In my limited experience, I wrote up a number of those Option Arm home loans... And let me just tell you that I was baffled by the time bomb facet of these things... Everybody knew it was just a matter of time before the whole sh*thouse went down in flames...

Nothing to do with illegal immigrants, see? All the damage was done from the inside. This whole witch hunt on the illegals at this juncture imo has more to do with politicians wanting to scapegoat folks, find a common enemy and at the expense of American civil liberties.


However, having said that, and, in an effort to tie this all back in to the topic at hand, I think you and Disco are essentially in agreement on the issue of racial profiling (which is really what we're talking about here, yes?). Disco is advocating a policy of non- visceral reaction, because so much of the greater economy would be negatively effected by a whole scale, knee jerk, "throw out all the immigrants at once" policy.

I think you'll find, Sarcasm, that many of our higher (than landscaping) paid jobs are in China.. And, yes, this "outsourcing" was prolly one part of a misguided neocon strategy, but if you think for a minute that some of these AZ politicians didn't have a hand in turning over manufacturing jobs to China (say, for example, because their developers could get a deal on drywall), I think you're mistaken. Your solution should not be to racially profile immigrants.

Also, it needs to be mentioned here that there is already a concerted effort underway to pinch employers of illegal immigrants...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Originally, the argument for outside labor was centered upon the fact that farm work required migrating. What argument do have for the tremendous number of displacements in construction? How about restaurants? Factories?

I didn't think so.

Correct, you don't think enough about something you don't understand. I'm no fan of illegals taking the jobs Americans want but it's the employer that benefits as well as the undocumented worker. We can enforce immigration laws with regard to the employer without having to violate American citizens rights.

You need to understand that wages have been suppressed - bad - while the rich have gotten richer...and richer...and richer. It's happened almost entirely due to slave labor and drastically lowered tax burdens on the wealthy. Straight up. The infrastructure is falling apart due to those lowered tax burdens, too, by the way.

And you need to understand executive compensation hasn't ballooned from undocumented workers. It's ballooned from 3 decades of conservative economic policy, aka "trickle-down" or voodoo economics. Even the Clinton years brought us NAFTA which disappeared domestic manufacturing and the repeal of Glass Stegall made banking and finance the same gamblers they were in the 1920s

If the company needs to put out more money to attract an American for a particular job, then that's the way it is. Americans are due American jobs. Simple.

Here's the way that needs to be handled. If a company operates within immigration law, they can do whatever they want. As for jobs that Americans are willing and able to fill, employers need to be penalized if they don't operate under immigration laws. If the employer still wants to hire a documented alien it's their right as a business owner. It's crazy to tell the government they can't regulate business and then turn around and say they can regulate the work force.

As for all the jobs that Americans will never take, (short of hitting rock bottom) the government has to allow migrant workers to do the job or your wallet will feel the pinch. It might require some adjustments but immigration policy opponents aren't usually fans of bigger government. But that's what it would take, more government and more taxes.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

So let me understand, USA policies should be no higher or better then Mexico's?
I for one know what the police can do to the common man in Mexico, if hkush thinks this is the path to follow for our police, or to follow bad Mexican immigration laws, as a way to get even, what can I say? All immigration laws everywhere need to be changed that treat people as criminals with less rights then citizens of whatever country passes such racist laws.

First they came for the Rag heads,
Then they came for the Mexicans,
Then they came for my Neighbors,
Be they Jews, Blacks, Gays, Whatever,
And finally they came for Me.

-SamS

Yes, I understand the little quote there. I am a racist for wanting to enforce immigration laws. I don't agree with you calling me a racist, but you are free to call anyone a racist that you want moderator.

A reiterate that Mexicos immigration laws are the ones that need fixing, as by your definition, they are racist for having them. Funnily, Canada is about the same in their treatment of people sneaking over their border. And actually, now that I think about it, most countries are far worse. Japan enforces racism. Stores and business lawfully exclude people based on race, with the help of the police. Youtube it. And I don't think I need to even mention any Arab country who is basically in the stone age when it comes to treatment of foreigners and other religions.

But to you, it is the USA that is evil and racist. I understand the defective thinking of fear, fear of envy, and the left in general. Trust me. I understand that they project their own mental defects onto others, as if it was them who is the racist one. But we all know who the real racists are don't we? The ones that are hard wired to ONLY see classes and race. And use that hard wired world view of racists and classes to conduct war on the ones who aren't racist. Race war, class war... who does that? Think hard.

First of all hkush I never called you a racist, please show me where I did.
You seem to enjoy to set up straw dogs and then show what crap they are, only problem is I never said what you say I said, and that is the real problem with you, you only care about winning a war you imagine in you own brain.
You seem to be a knee jerk law and order type, I am wondering if a person smokes, grows, transports, or sells Cannabis what do you think should happen to them?
Be honest and don't avoid the truth.
By law they should be arrested, go to jail, maybe even serve time in prison? Maybe lose their home and freedom, maybe their wife and children?
If you can't answer this it is because you are a coward, either a pot user that thinks all others that break all other laws belong in jail, but not you, or a LEO here on this site for who knows what reasons, but not for any good...
Next time you want to criticize me you might want to read my posts, and understand them, I know it is hard for you but with a little extra effort, you can then actually respond about something I wrote instead of imaginary ramblings of your own mind.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Ideally we treat everyone equally, regardless. If you want to give to charity, be my guest, but anything more, such as giving whats mine to charity is stealing (not empathy) .

Also, criminals in this country, which is all of the illegal aliens, should be treated equally to other criminals in the US. Not governments job to have "empathy". Thats your job if you choose it.

Enforce the law, its just about their only job, and it's the only thing they don't want to do. But maybe now, illegals all leave AZ, and go to a state that wants them. If what you say is true, and they are a boon to the economy, its more benefit for the state that lets them in.

If it was up to me personally, I'd take (as in TAKE) Baja, and part of Mexico mainland and keep it for the US. But they won't let me be president. It'd be win win for both regions though.

Should the law be equally enforced against all Cannabis people?

Another way to solve the problem is to give Arizona and the rest of the territories won in the Mexican War and the Gadsden Purchase, back to Mexico, they can give us back the 10,000,000 we paid them, but then maybe you would have to leave, or maybe you could become a Mexican cop? Sounds stupid, but no more so then many other things said in this thread...

-SamS

 

[Sarcasm]

First of all Sarcasm, I completely agree with you regarding your remarks about the neocon agenda...It's all that and more...

Q: "...What argument do have for the tremendous number of displacements in construction? How about restaurants? Factories?"

A: When the greater economy melts down due to massive banking fraud - between opaque derivatives and house of card financial investment tool technology, all "guaranteed" by overseas insurers like AIG whose branch CEO's are trying to hit big volume in order to bonus hard before retirement and when even the sophisticated institutions that are buying these "investments" don't understand them....The system has run amuck-- ---- the economy at large goes down and everybody, including the diner waitresses, are effected. Think massive, multi-national ponzi scheme when everybody involved calls Bullshit at the same time....

In my limited experience, I wrote up a number of those Option Arm home loans... And let me just tell you that I was baffled by the time bomb facet of these things... Everybody knew it was just a matter of time before the whole sh*thouse went down in flames...

Nothing to do with illegal immigrants, see? All the damage was done from the inside. This whole witch hunt on the illegals at this juncture imo has more to do with politicians wanting to scapegoat folks, find a common enemy and at the expense of American civil liberties.

Well said, C99. As I mentioned before, let's quit picking on the "little guy" and focus our wrath where it belongs - on the corporate criminals. The elitists that put our economy into an economic tailspin are the very same creeps that love their dirt-cheap, desperate labor. THEY are the ones who should be harrased. I've said it all along.

However, having said that, and, in an effort to tie this all back in to the topic at hand, I think you and Disco are essentially in agreement on the issue of racial profiling (which is really what we're talking about here, yes?). Disco is advocating a policy of non- visceral reaction, because so much of the greater economy would be negatively effected by a whole scale, knee jerk, "throw out all the immigrants at once" policy.

I think you'll find, Sarcasm, that many of our higher (than landscaping) paid jobs are in China.. And, yes, this "outsourcing" was prolly one part of a misguided neocon strategy, but if you think for a minute that some of these AZ politicians didn't have a hand in turning over manufacturing jobs to China (say, for example, because their developers could get a deal on drywall), I think you're mistaken. Your solution should not be to racially profile immigrants.

Amen, my friend, and too true about the drywall .

As far as racial profiling, it looks like the corporate class has succeeded in pitting the working classes against one another...yet another tragedy in their quest for endless wealth. Terrible.

Also, it needs to be mentioned here that there is already a concerted effort underway to pinch employers of illegal immigrants...

Honestly, I'll believe it when I see it. As long as the businessfolk continue to hold all the goodies, they will enjoy a continued ability to write our laws as they go.

 

[Sarcasm]

Correct, you don't think enough about something you don't understand. I'm no fan of illegals taking the jobs Americans want but it's the employer that benefits as well as the undocumented worker. We can enforce immigration laws with regard to the employer without having to violate American citizens rights.

We are in complete agreement, Disco. Simply giving cops the right to stop people is absolute, utter bullshit. A classic fascist manuever.

And you need to understand executive compensation hasn't ballooned from undocumented workers. It's ballooned from 3 decades of conservative economic policy, aka "trickle-down" or voodoo economics. Even the Clinton years brought us NAFTA which disappeared domestic manufacturing and the repeal of Glass Stegall made banking and finance the same gamblers they were in the 1920s

Yes, we're definitely in agreement. But don't kid yourself: radically lowered labor costs have had a large hand in spoiling the corporate class with more money. Not to mention, it has reduced the level of respect for those that actually do meaningful labor. It's played its own destructive part - bigtime.

Totally true about the nixing of Glass Steagall. We've got Phil Gramm to thank for that. This guy is about as dumb as W, but actually managed to create these highly destructive ideas that have gone on to damn near DESTROY our society. But don't forget, according to Phil, we're a nation of whiners and we really just don't understand. What a motherfucker.

Here's the way that needs to be handled. If a company operates within immigration law, they can do whatever they want. As for jobs that Americans are willing and able to fill, employers need to be penalized if they don't operate under immigration laws. If the employer still wants to hire a documented alien it's their right as a business owner. It's crazy to tell the government they can't regulate business and then turn around and say they can regulate the work force.

As for all the jobs that Americans will never take, (short of hitting rock bottom) the government has to allow migrant workers to do the job or your wallet will feel the pinch. It might require some adjustments but immigration policy opponents aren't usually fans of bigger government. But that's what it would take, more government and more taxes.

Personally, I'd like to see a situation where a lawsuit is ready for any American that's denied a job position in favor of an undocumented person. At the same time, I'd like to see the corrupt, POS Mexican government be pressured for their part in this mess. As I mentioned before, Mexico should be a gem in the Latin world. No reason for the Mexican people to seek a better life here in the U.S.

 

[Hydrosun]

Ideally we treat everyone equally, regardless. If you want to give to charity, be my guest, but anything more, such as giving whats mine to charity is stealing (not empathy) .

Also, criminals in this country, which is all of the illegal aliens, should be treated equally to other criminals in the US. Not governments job to have "empathy". Thats your job if you choose it.

Enforce the law, its just about their only job, and it's the only thing they don't want to do. But maybe now, illegals all leave AZ, and go to a state that wants them. If what you say is true, and they are a boon to the economy, its more benefit for the state that lets them in.

If it was up to me personally, I'd take (as in TAKE) Baja, and part of Mexico mainland and keep it for the US. But they won't let me be president. It'd be win win for both regions though.

Your opening paragraph is perfect! Then you fall of the wagon a little and want ALL laws to be enforced with MY money.

Many here at ICmag are civilly disobedient and INTENTIONALLY violate unjust laws. If you really want equal and absolute enforcement of all American laws then you are an enemy to almost ALL Americans. I'll be in prison for growing and almost every other American will be sitting beside me for on law violation or another.

Immigration laws are as immoral as marijuana prohibition laws. To find a solution we should look to your first statement "Ideally we treat everyone equally, regardless. If you want to give to charity, be my guest, but anything more, such as giving whats mine to charity is stealing"

If true economic freedom were know by all you would not need to fear the bus boy, maid, or gardener. So long as I am not taxed to support you or them, why should I care where they PAY to live and work?

Peace,

 

[hkush]

First of all hkush I never called you a racist, please show me where I did.
You seem to enjoy to set up straw dogs and then show what crap they are, only problem is I never said what you say I said, and that is the real problem with you, you only care about winning a war you imagine in you own brain.
You seem to be a knee jerk law and order type, I am wondering if a person smokes, grows, transports, or sells Cannabis what do you think should happen to them?
Be honest and don't avoid the truth.
By law they should be arrested, go to jail, maybe even serve time in prison? Maybe lose their home and freedom, maybe their wife and children?
If you can't answer this it is because you are a coward, either a pot user that thinks all others that break all other laws belong in jail, but not you, or a LEO here on this site for who knows what reasons, but not for any good...
Next time you want to criticize me you might want to read my posts, and understand them, I know it is hard for you but with a little extra effort, you can then actually respond about something I wrote instead of imaginary ramblings of your own mind.

-SamS

Yes, you definitely called me a racist, by subtly accusing me (and anyone with my illegal alien opinion) of being on the side of "first coming for the rag heads, then coming for "the mexicans". yada yada, race war bullshit.

So lets take that quote line by line.

Fist they came for the "rag heads".

Who came for them? The racists? Anyone who is against illegal aliens being here? Answer it.

Then they came for "the mexicans".
Who came for them? The racists?

Now that racist accusation aside. You can deny it it, but whatev. Anyone against the leftist agenda is always a racist, to the real racists.

On the second question, should marijuana users be put in jail? Not if it was up to me. The law as far as I can tell is wholly unconstitutional, and of course, its a law originally enacted by far leftists, as are most unconstitutional laws. The lefties are the hard wired racists, and the "banners" of society. Hell, most of them sit around discussing what to BAN next - every day of their lives. What to ban, and what to tax (steal). Its their two main questions in life. Ban oil drilling, ban cars, ban outdoor grilling, ban guns, ban hunting, ban words, ban profit, ban this, ban that, they can't get enough of banning.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I wish constitutionality wasn't such a vague aspect of our conversation. Somebody declares something unconstitutional but doesn't bother to say why or whatever. I think we'd all do ourselves a favor and know the difference between a good argument for constitutionality vs a talk host that's willing to go all melodramatic if the audience will believe the bullshit.

IMO, this law based on "reasonable suspicion" is a slippery slope, not unto immigration alone. If this law is upheld, an AZ trooper may violate your rights based on red, sleepy eyes from nothing more than a tiring drive. Wait until a few gun lovers are pulled over for suspicion after leaving a gun show. The NRA won't turn their cheek to legal immigrants having their gun rights violated, lol.

The law is too broad and too many lawmen will end up having their personal idea of "reasonable suspicion" judged in the courts.

Why can't AZ lawmakers add "reasonable suspicion" to employers they know employed illegals in the past and possibly at present? IMO, they're going after those least capable of throwing a lawsuit, until AZ fucks up so bad a savvy lawyer (or group of) drops enough class-actions to bankrupt the state.

I think AG Holder will find a way to kibosh this law and damn quick. We can justify 49 more cockamamie schemes to deport illegals if this AZ law is allowed to stand.

 

[Cinderella99]

"...The law is too broad and too many lawmen will end up having their personal idea of "reasonable suspicion" judged in the courts..."

Right on, bro- it'll be like apriori justification -- the ends will justify the means in court. They won't give no nevermind that the cop made up some stupid "reasonable suspicion" of perp being an "illegal" sh*t. In fact, it will pan out to be quite the opposite of reasonable, I'm sure. This is just a rationale for anybody with a badge* to pull over anybody Hispanic. This is a transgression against all of our civil liberties.

* Having lived in AZ for 6 or 7 years, I can say, unequivocally, that there are some scary mofos with badges in AZ. Hell, Arpaio's got the biggest badge...

As a side note, it's somewhat easy to make these Law and Order Libertarians' heads explode on this site

USA Today: San Jose Police Chief Robert Davis, president of the Major Cities Chiefs Association, said the group stands by its 2006 policy that "immigration enforcement by local police would likely negatively effect and undermine the level of trust and cooperation between local police and immigrant communities."

But McBean was quite wrong. I’m quite happy to say.
That the Sneetches got really quite smart on that day.
The day they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches.
And no kind of Sneetch is the best on the beaches.
That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars and whether
They had one, or not, upon thars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_VFGrGnCE&feature

 

[rasputin]

hkush, you have some much needed homework to do. A little research would enlighten you as to the foundation for banning MJ. Here's a few hints: DuPont, Anslinger, William Randolph Hearst. Lefties? What color is the sky in your world if those names conjure up images of leftists?

Take the blinders off. Damn Left and Right bullshit nonsense, just some silly jibber jabber to stifle discussion and paint human beings with broad strokes to avoid real, substantial discussion which involves critical thinking, being open to new ideas, and embracing your own personal evolution of beliefs. They got ya divided and conquered but you wouldn't dare let that get in the way of waving your flag or banging your drum.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Yes, you definitely called me a racist, by subtly accusing me (and anyone with my illegal alien opinion) of being on the side of "first coming for the rag heads, then coming for "the mexicans". yada yada, race war bullshit.

So lets take that quote line by line.

Fist they came for the "rag heads".

Who came for them? The racists? Anyone who is against illegal aliens being here? Answer it.

Then they came for "the mexicans".
Who came for them? The racists?

Now that racist accusation aside. You can deny it it, but whatev. Anyone against the leftist agenda is always a racist, to the real racists.

On the second question, should marijuana users be put in jail? Not if it was up to me. The law as far as I can tell is wholly unconstitutional, and of course, its a law originally enacted by far leftists, as are most unconstitutional laws. The lefties are the hard wired racists, and the "banners" of society. Hell, most of them sit around discussing what to BAN next - every day of their lives. What to ban, and what to tax (steal). Its their two main questions in life. Ban oil drilling, ban cars, ban outdoor grilling, ban guns, ban hunting, ban words, ban profit, ban this, ban that, they can't get enough of banning.

I said they, not you, if you fit in the boat, only you know for sure..

"Anyone against the leftist agenda is always a racist, to the real racists."

So lets be clear here, are you calling me a racist? Are all lefties racists, every single one? BTW, not that it is any of your business but I think most lefties, socialists, communists, have no idea what is going on, but that said I also think that right wing nuts are just as much a bunch of losers. I don't like to be put in a box but I am a fiscal conservative and a freedom loving libertarian who thinks that almost all political parties have sold out their ideals, if they ever had them. I sure don't want a policeman to have the right to ask me for my ID, when I am innocent of whatever is in his mind. Anyone that would allow this is a fascist or commie or another type of totalitarian, at least in my book.
FYI, I am not for taxes (steal), banning oil drilling, banning cars, banning outdoor grilling, banning guns, banning hunting, banning words, banning profit, you are so far off base it is ridiculous, almost funny.
How come you can see it is clearly unconstitutional to jail drug users, yet can't see the unconstitutional nature of the new Arizona law? If you want to stand on the constitution, then you have to accept that you can't always have your way because everyones rights are protected, not just a few rich white guys.
I will quit because I don't think you really care about what is constitutional or not, you just don't like your life being out of your control, hard to blame you..

BTW I thought it was the far right that was for the war on drugs? Don't most liberals want to tax & legalize Cannabis? I think you got your facts mixed up a little bit?

-SamS

 

[cody2white]

I've been cited for 2 weed dui's in the past 2 years in this valley. Its fuckin ridiculous and I hate they can do that to just about anyone they want to and get away with it

 

[hkush]

I said they, not you, if you fit in the boat, only you know for sure..

OK. Well, I'm FOR getting illegal aliens out of the country, so am I a racist? I don't know for sure. But according to your standard, I guess I would have to be, right?

"Anyone against the leftist agenda is always a racist, to the real racists."

So lets be clear here, are you calling me a racist? Are all lefties racists, every single one? BTW, not that it is any of your business but I think most lefties, socialists, communists, have no idea what is going on, but that said I also think that right wing nuts are just as much a bunch of losers. I don't like to be put in a box but I am a fiscal conservative and a freedom loving libertarian who thinks that almost all political parties have sold out their ideals, if they ever had them. I sure don't want a policeman to have the right to ask me for my ID, when I am innocent of whatever is in his mind. Anyone that would allow this is a fascist or commie or another type of totalitarian, at least in my book.
FYI, I am not for taxes (steal), banning oil drilling, banning cars, banning outdoor grilling, banning guns, banning hunting, banning words, banning profit, you are so far off base it is ridiculous, almost funny.
How come you can see it is clearly unconstitutional to jail drug users, yet can't see the unconstitutional nature of the new Arizona law? If you want to stand on the constitution, then you have to accept that you can't always have your way because everyones rights are protected, not just a few rich white guys.
I will quit because I don't think you really care about what is constitutional or not, you just don't like your life being out of your control, hard to blame you..

BTW I thought it was the far right that was for the war on drugs? Don't most liberals want to tax & legalize Cannabis? I think you got your facts mixed up a little bit?

-SamS

The cops can stop you and ask for your ID right now.

And you say you are a libertarian. but only seem to be against republicans, specifically that evil Reagan. Just like 90% of this board. Yet all of these prohibitions were spear headed and enacted by democrats. And still are to this day. Anslinger was a democrat. Worked for democrat administrations, and caused prohibition, that was voted into law by democrats who ruled both houses of congress (and thus, the legislative calendar).

The Clerk read the title of the bill.
Mr. SNELL. [Rep. Bertrand H. Snell(R-NY)]. "Mr. Speaker, reserving the right to object, and notwithstanding the fact that my friend, Reed, is in favor of it, is this a matter we should bring up at this late hour of the afternoon? I do not know anything about the bill. It may be all right and it may be that everyone is for it, but as a general principle, I am against bringing up any important legislation, and I suppose this is important, since it comes from the Ways and Means Committee, at this late hour of the day."
Mr. RAYBURN [Sam Rayburn(D-TX), later to become Speaker himself]. "Mr. Speaker, if the gentleman will yield, I may say that the gentleman from North Carolina has stated to me that this bill has a unanimous report from the committee and that there is no controversy about it."
Mr. SNELL. "What is the bill?"
Mr. RAYBURN. "It has something to do with something that is called marihuana. I believe it is a narcotic of some kind."
Mr. VINSON. [Fred M. Vinson (D-KY), later a Supreme Court Justice] "Marihuana is the same as hashish."
Mr. SNELL. "Mr. Speaker, I am not going to object but I think it is wrong to consider legislation of this character at this time of night".
Later, when the bill returned, very slightly amended, from the Senate, the only question asked was whether the AMA agreed with the bill. Mr. Vinson said not only did the AMA did not object (In fact their committee witness had dissented strenuously), he also claimed that the bill had AMA support (AMA, founded by a democrat* BTW).
FDR signed the bill on August 3rd. After that there was a 13 year lull in enforcement. To this day it is not clear why the bill was pushed so hard to become law, then barely enforced. Conspiracy buffs think they know, but no one knows for sure. I have a book whose chapter 9 called "The Marijuana Recession 1938-1951".

http://www.november.org/LocalScenes/2009JohnChase/index.html

As a side note. I've noted that it had the full support of the AMA, an organization that supports all fascist democrat laws, and has done more to kill "health care" than any other organization on earth. A "dyed in wool" democrat founded it.

Anywhere there is a fascist piece of legislation, You can bet it was written by a democrat, and win.

But back to the topic. Libs are constantly harping about "democracy", and not republicanism (our form of government). So, if according to them, the mob rules the day, well 70% of AZ supports this law. Whats the problem with "democracy"?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

But back to the topic. Libs are constantly harping about "democracy", and not republicanism (our form of government). So, if according to them, the mob rules the day, well 70% of AZ supports this law. Whats the problem with "democracy"?

You're still not on topic. A Republic has no monarch. A democratic Republic is democracy w/o royalty, that's all. This is like the cries of unconstitutionality with no substance.

"According to them", the voting masses do not constitute mob rule. You're just stringing words together that don't reflect reality.

Would you like a genuine example of mob rule? Florida election officials followed Florida election law and attempted to recount votes in a county that didn't meet minimum victory percentage. A dozen political operatives stood outside the county election office and threatened election officials with violence if they continued the recount. When the court ruled same county was legally entitled to recount, county election officials declined, citing previous mob intimidation.

Doesn't matter if 100% support the law if it's declared unconstitutional. It's too bad the same folks that scream when their rights are violated have no problem violating the rights of another group, regardless of the chosen demographic.

It's not so bad you turn a discussion into a political bitch rag. It would be nice if you're actually correct or substantiate your blanket statements, especially when it's anything to do with the other side of the aisle.

Just because you say it doesn't make it true. When you finally say something correct it won't be noticed with bombs like "mob rule" and which politician was what 7 decades ago.

 

[Sarcasm]

IMO, this law based on "reasonable suspicion" is a slippery slope, not unto immigration alone.

No shit?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I guess you live up to your member name.

 

[Cinderella99]

Hk, you say you are a Libertarian that doesn't think there's a role for government and you also say you don't expect charity or empathy from anybody, but I have a couple questions.

1) AZ, once it arrests all these people, needs to immediately hand them over/ dump them onto the Federal Government to deal with.

2) Why are you making your local "problems" my problem and asking me for my taxpayer money when the Federal Government has to deal with your issues? You're using up my resources! lol

Kinda selfish of AZ isn't it?

 

[HydroManiac]

They really need to seal the borders not letting anybody that can't get in legally in also I think the law where if somebody is born here they can stay here if a illegal sneaks in our country has a baby a week later they should both be deported not meaning to sound heartless but something has to be done I am sick and tired of these lowlife lawmakers passing laws they say is to protect us only to end up taking more of our rights in the process I will take not being safe and having all my rights back then being so called safer by our corrupt government!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

They really need to seal the borders not letting anybody that can't get in legally in

We've built more fence and manned more posts than we can afford. Do you agree we need more tax money for border security?

also I think the law where if somebody is born here they can stay here if a illegal sneaks in our country has a baby a week later they should both be deported

Do you have any statistics that show problematic "born in the USA" citizenship?

I am sick and tired of these lowlife lawmakers passing laws they say is to protect us only to end up taking more of our rights in the process I will take not being safe and having all my rights back then being so called safer by our corrupt government!

I'm just curious what you had taken away and what you want back. Were you sick and tired of the lowlife lawmakers in the last administration that are responsible for restricting your rights? Are you even aware what these restricted/lost rights are? Just asking.