RDWC Roots are never white? even with tea

[captinahab]

So I'm sitting here at work pricing out DO meters. There expensive but cheaper then buying a new airpump. Should I buy 10 large airstone and a active aqua 110lpm air pump?
I really Dont think it will help but what do I know. My grows nothing but problems.
Also im gonna throw em in 5 gallon buckets. All the water changes with the tub are taking a tole on my water bill changing 40 gallons out a week. I'm gonna put em in a low 420ppm solution and start foliar feeding a weak bloom foliar spray with DM Saturator to keep em going.

Dont buy a d.o.meter a decent ones $250. Money can be spent better other places.. unless it free or you already have it. Another pump can never hurt.. roots love oxygen.

P.s. for anyone reading this post that thinks that pump is to expensive but needs to make tea you can also make your own vortex cheaper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syOOeoAXruM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Dr.Tone]

Thanks for the advice. This res I'm running sterile with zone , calmag, a+b bloom, and h202 evey three days. No bennies for this system. We will see if she looks any better next week end. Hopefully she will grow some new white roots hahaa Not. As for the rdwc I'm running tea with bennies and PBL grow. 450ppm

 

[ozzieAI]

This res I'm running sterile

IME this is the best way that worked for me in RDWC...you should see a BIG difference in root colour..or lack of it....

however i do not like airstones as they tend to throw ph quite quickly and found using the cascade affect worked much better for me. i would have the inlet water squirting under pressure into the plant res and then falling back into the main res

 

[captinahab]

The only time i had bad water in hydro was in an areo clonner. The water went white and slimy overnight. It was the consistancy of pouring ivory soap in it if the soap didnt dissolve. I cleaned it out and four days later it happened again. I picked up an indoor/outdoor thermometer with a probe and found water temps peaked at 78. I mobed it down lower to cooler temps with no more problems. But my water was white and so were the roots.

Bacteria or bennies are in the air and they are free. If you put rice(food) in a bowl of water bacteria will be presnt and thrive(this is also the start to making em1). If you put an areated bowl of water out and add molassas(food) in 3 days you can use a microscope and see a population of bacteria. Both good and bad are in the air, but most bad ones come out under high temp or anarobic pockets of water. Thats why i didnt like dwc. It was the perfect container for bacteria... warm and moist.

I like your waterfall idea. Flood and drain i cut my drain hoses short as possible to stir up the water and add air.... like a waterfall does in nature

 

[Dr.Tone]

The only time i had bad water in hydro was in an areo clonner. The water went white and slimy overnight. It was the consistancy of pouring ivory soap in it if the soap didnt dissolve. I cleaned it out and four days later it happened again. I picked up an indoor/outdoor thermometer with a probe and found water temps peaked at 78. I mobed it down lower to cooler temps with no more problems. But my water was white and so were the roots.

Bacteria or bennies are in the air and they are free. If you put rice(food) in a bowl of water bacteria will be presnt and thrive(this is also the start to making em1). If you put an areated bowl of water out and add molassas(food) in 3 days you can use a microscope and see a population of bacteria. Both good and bad are in the air, but most bad ones come out under high temp or anarobic pockets of water. Thats why i didnt like dwc. It was the perfect container for bacteria... warm and moist.

I like your waterfall idea. Flood and drain i cut my drain hoses short as possible to stir up the water and add air.... like a waterfall does in nature

Yea that's how my slime started in the aero cloner. I use azos in there now and haven't had it come back in like 6 weeks now.

 

[Dr.Tone]

UPDATE:
Went and check the flower room lastnight and 2 power kushes were droopy. the 2 headbands were fine tho but all 4 looks sorta sad. lights arnt on yet today but tonight ill check on em again and see if there still sad. im thinking they need more water? the levels about 4 inches from the bottom of the netpot. roots looked better tho. the h202 dip really broke down alot of the gunk but i think thats what really stressed em out. beside there roots rotting lol. PH 5.8, TEMP 68.2 PPM 550, 300ppm calmag and 250ppm a+b bloom.

NOw for the veg system. i water changed it out lastnight with rodi water and shop vac all the water out wiped everything down with a wash cloth full of h202 and water mix. i put in 150ppm of calmag and 300ppm of botanicar pbp grow. so 450ppm total. i used 2ml of silica per gallon to buffer it to 5.8 and added 10ml of ORCA. water temps 67.1 PH 6.0 this morning and ppm 450 still.

So i got one res sterile and one with bennies. experiments man there frustrating. any advice is welcome. thanks guys

 

[Snype]

I got a PM from you Dr. Tone. I will try and help you as best as I can but things don't look good for you. There are many ways to grow in RDWC but I can only teach you the techniques that I use because my techniques are proven through many grows.

Your roots are destroyed. I can't tell you why your roots are so poor because you use way too many products including organic and chemical. IMO, you have to keep it very simple and use as few products as possible. You don't use the products that I use which will make it impossible for me to make a diagnosis.

The tubing on your return line to the controller looks too big and isn't providing enough pressure. Your pump may also be too small. I also don't like your air pump. I used to use those pumps when I first started and had lots of problems. I'm not blaming the pump for your problems because I think your root issues came from multiple problems. Your plants aren't taking up nutrients as well because your roots are destroyed. There are ways to bring back your roots but I can't tell you because it is too dangerous for me to be teaching the public. What I mean is, the chemicals that I tested on root rot may be too dangerous to humans and it would be unethical for me to show anyone.

The advise that I can give you is my VEG-A system is very important to use before you place the plants into RDWC. You have to grow a healthy rooting structure before you place the plants into RDWC/DWC. The bigger root that you grow beforehand, the better buffer that you will have against future issues. If I were in your shoes, i'd be using the exact same products that I use, unless you think I have no idea what I'm talking about. The only products that I use in my complete Veg and Bloom grow is:

General Hydroponics Flora Micro
General Hydroponics Flora Bloom
Clorox Bleach (unscented and not the splash guard)

Those products are the only products that I use in my entire grow except that I use a little SuperThrive in the cloning stage but it is not necessary to use. So what I'm saying is that I would only be using the 3 products that I'm using if you want try and get the results that I get.

To summarize, lets look at my healthy clones:

Now lets look at my VEG-A system and what it does:

And now of course the final product at a Gram Per Watt:

And just to be an asshole and a showoff, here is a before and after of me fixing my root rot problems:

*

Sorry about your problems but it's the only way for most people to learn.

 

[Dr.Tone]

thanks snype. i think keeping it simple is the best method. ill try the bleach like ya said and sort out some of the other problems. the lucas formula with the general hydro micro and bloom i hear good things about. im gonna stick to the synthetic nutes and ditch all the zone h2o2 sm90 silica ect. im gonna give em 1 more week. if they dont start growing im gonna cut clones. pull everything and start fresh and stick to the sterile method using bleach 1ml for 44 gallons.

 

[captinahab]

Thats what i use... lucas all the way.. learned it from ilbfuct perpetual sea of green thread. Shit works.. i dropped the h202. Only thing in the rez was a and b. Water looked like cool aid. You can tell when its getting to much salt when it gets deep red like syrup (after add backing once a week for 12 weeks). 15 minutes of work a week and rez change every 3 months.

 

[Applesauce]

My tap is similar to yours. I use Jack's + Cal/nit with bleach and that is all. Low ppm throughout. I re-add the bleach every 3-4 days. Without adding bleach I still haven't been able to get rot. My temps are about 68 and I went overkill on the air. I also avoid using airstones. I just zip-tie stainless steel nuts to the ends of the lines. The only time I've seen root rot is when massive amounts of light were getting into the system and temps were high 70's.

Before I arrived in my current situation I too was convinced I had some type of disease in my tap water. Really, I just wasn't keeping the light out, water temps were rising and I didn't have enough air.

Your answer is somewhere in this thread. Good luck..

 

[captinahab]

This is what me and snype are using... lucas formula.

Read this at work..... take notes....grow weed

http://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html

 

[Inspired333]

Hey Dr. Tone,
Sorry to hear about your situation. Great video (and pics) you posted; it should help others help ya more precisely.

Thanks for the advice. This res I'm running sterile with zone , calmag, a+b bloom, and h202 evey three days. No bennies for this system. We will see if she looks any better next week end. Hopefully she will grow some new white roots hahaa Not. As for the rdwc I'm running tea with bennies and PBL grow. 450ppm

Not sure from reading the thread but: if you're going from one system (the rdwc veg undercurrent) and running any type of bennies or organic etc etc, and then moving those plants into another system (the ebb flow table is it?) with a sterile system...that, is a probably a bad idea; so is vice-versa.

UPDATE: ...NOw for the veg system. i water changed it out lastnight with rodi water and shop vac all the water out wiped everything down with a wash cloth full of h202 and water mix. i put in 150ppm of calmag and 300ppm of botanicar pbp grow. so 450ppm total. i used 2ml of silica per gallon to buffer it to 5.8 and added 10ml of ORCA. water temps 67.1 PH 6.0 this morning and ppm 450 still. So i got one res sterile and one with bennies. experiments man there frustrating. any advice is welcome. thanks guys

Depending what your system/root issue is, adding silica could be a problem...

I only know as much as the next guy who scours the internet (forums, vids, and articles etc.) but I feel I can say this with certainty: you (we) first need to asses and find out as best we can what diseas/problem it is you (we) have.
Because cyanobacteria, is not diatomes, is not 'green' algae and so on. Each of those poses a slighlty different problem that has a different solution (there may be some crossover).

Some things are a given.
-light: just keep it outta your "below root" zone (!) - I know this because I settled for 98% light proof. I knew of an area that may allow a sliiight amount of light in, potentially, possibly ..don't risk it. Don't believe anyone that suggests differently.
I can easily see that those blue buckets in your undercurrent are far from lightproof. Also, white schedule 40 PVC isn't light proof.

-keep the water as cool as you can (you've done that). But I think it's noteworthy to say that some people do and have had succesful and great grows with temps going up to mid 70's. If you don't have to then don't.

-oxygen. You have plenty from what I read and see.

I'm trying to learn right now too. And even with trying to "KISS" I've had minor problem(s) that are now a little hard to kick in day ~40ish.
But I think you're using too many products, some of them conflicting, for sure.

Somebody said "it's not in your water". Which is against everything I've concluded from reading..a lot. It very well could be in your water, again depending on what it is.
If its diatomes/brown algae, everything points to it being there for good and you'll always have it and need to use things like physan before a grow and, just to pick one product, say...DM Zone consistantly from now on.

Anyway - I hope I haven't bored you and wasted your time or thread space
Just trying to add some more for you to consider because it may lead you somewhere that may help you.

Let us know how things go please.

Peace.

*Edit: Oh I meant to ask; why did you start brewing and using tea in the first place? Have you been using that since day one since you started growing (or this grow) or did you just start because you had root problems or what?

 

[Dr.Tone]

*Edit: Oh I meant to ask; why did you start brewing and using tea in the first place? Have you been using that since day one since you started growing (or this grow) or did you just start because you had root problems or what?

i had originally ran my dwc vats sterile and set clones in for the first time before i went snowbording and came back to the dreaded slime. tea fixed that but now it seems its morphed into a different problem.

so now the choice has to be made sterile or biological. thats why i have one and the other cause im experimenting

 

[Jeeyah]

I'd like to help. Seeing those roots makes me sad. I went through a lot of trial and error to learn dwc. I run a homemade undercurrent now.

I think you're adding too many different things. I recommend you add your base nutes only. It probably sounds crazy, but just A+B. Nothing else. Low ppm. I just use GH Flora micro/bloom at a weak Lucas ratio. (~4/8) If you keep the water level about an inch or two above the bottom of the net pot, the plant will grow many fine roots.

Also, the pipes on your system look like 2" pvc. You might be getting less circulation with the smaller pipes. Probably doesn't matter, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

There's this stuff called Strata SOS. I think it could help you for now. Its clear and clean. But, you need to get your system working good without any additives. Let me know how you make out. I'd love to help. I've learned a lot on this beautiful website.

 

[Dr.Tone]

Update
here 1 of the bigger ones. growth is improving since the switch to RODI w/calmag water base nutes and 10ml ORCA bacterial inoculent.
Water Parameters:
PH 5.7 drops .1 every 72hrs?
PPM 450 on .68 scale
Temp 68.4

 

[captinahab]

Orca is mycorrhizal fungus not a bennie. It is an innocilant given to plants at a very young age. I make my own spores for soil using kelp, water, and oatmeal in a pan covered for 72 hours.... i apply during their first transplant out of small cups. Wont help cure root rot later in life... not sure if fungus in a sealed dwc is a good thing. Hope it works out for ya.

 

[Dr.Tone]

Orca is mycorrhizal fungus not a bennie. It is an innocilant given to plants at a very young age. I make my own spores for soil using kelp, water, and oatmeal in a pan covered for 72 hours.... i apply during their first transplant out of small cups. Wont help cure root rot later in life... not sure if fungus in a sealed dwc is a good thing. Hope it works out for ya.

i just copy and pasted this off there website. its good in hydro and soil bud and has 4 fungi strains and 11 bacterial strains.

Orca is an exciting new product from the people who brought you great white. Representing the pinnacle of biological inoculants, Orca is a highly concentrate mycorrhizal and beneficial bacteria product. Bringing together 4 highly effective endo mycorrhizal species with 11 super aggresive bacteria strains this all-in-one inoculant is all you need when it comes to beneficials. Never before has such a powerful inoculant been so clean, easy to apply and affordable.

 

[Dr.Tone]

 

[captinahab]

I did a quick google search to see the active ingredient to see what you were adding... should have looked at the label. Just trying to help ya get some buds dude. I know how frustrating it is to wait for perpetual harvest payoff. .... but it looks like some new root growth... i think they will come out of it since your now there to take care of the rez.

 

[Dr.Tone]

i appreciate the help dude. this whole hydro thing has my wanting to go back to soil but im gonna see if it will pay off.