Rand Paul wins Senate Primary, soon to be a pro-legalization senator!

[anikas88]

JacktheGrower, well said.....the american empire is at crossroads i believe. I like some of libertarians view points, especially those personal rights. But overall i think the ideology lacks something very important.

Botanist ~ nothing as a novel, but to be hailed as the libertarian bible, the moral compass of humanity, is a little much. Seems like he named his kid after her, hes got to be a closet objectivist

 

[JackTheGrower]

JacktheGrower, well said.....the american empire is at crossroads i believe. I like some of libertarians view points, especially those personal rights. But overall i think the ideology lacks something very important.

Botanist ~ nothing as a novel, but to be hailed as the libertarian bible, the moral compass of humanity, is a little much. Seems like he named his kid after her, hes got to be a closet objectivist

Yes! The Intoxication of a Successful Dogma.

We are far from WWII and the Industrial age and the Best America can do now is a Banking Industry with Military and private Armies ... Backing..


Warm Respects..

.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I am Puffin..

Pardon the random post while medicating.


"Nude Economics"

Has The USA traded the well being of the lower classes for protections on the World market?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

...

 

[ROJO145]

Mornin Hoosier,Goose Eggs for breakfast again!!Man all the guys you beat up online everyday,you gotta be the toughest,smartest,roughest cat in punkin holler Im glad were friends,wouldnt want you on me!!!!!

 

[gdtrfb]

this is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Payaso]

Thanks for bringing this latest bitch fight over politics to my attention. I have had to remove a number of posts by members who seem to continually forget the rules here...

Do not insult the other members for any reason.

And especially:

13. Threads or posts pertaining to religious or political discussions meant to incite or flame others will be closed and/or deleted. ICMag is an international site attracting members from a multitude of religious and political backgrounds, so in favor of harmony and unity, rather than division, it is best to stay on the topic of this site....cannabis. There is a forum for law/politics as it pertains to cannabis.

I'd really rather not have to close this thread, but will do so if the commentators can't keep on topic.

 

[Rainman]

IGrow - Well said but what about all the quotes that I put up regarding his stances on the ADA, minorities, and the minimum wage? He has alot of explaing to do on those stances and he has yet to even try. He simply ducked the min wage question when asked and his responses about the other two issues are simply scarey to me. Why would it even be a thought in people's minds to not serve customers based on skin color? The fact that he would even consider not serving people or defending those that would turn away those not of the same skin tone should be frightening ( unless you belong to that club). It will be interesting to see how he reacts to future questions on these issues as they will not go away.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

MarquisBlack, bring your debate back to the public stage. It's like you left the podium and called me on my cell to inform me I failed to address your new, phoned-in parameters, lol.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Has The USA traded the well being of the lower classes for protections on the World market?

After doing some more reading I'm not 100% sold on Rand. I'm just glad to see any anti-establishment candidate get it there and change the status-quo national conversation.

I'm even thrilled Sestak won because Obama apparently offered him a job (read bribery) to drop out of the election. Anyone who challenges the status quo is good for the country IMO.

Sestak, White House still mum on alleged administration job offer

Rep. Joe Sestak (D-Pa.) and White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs refused to give further details this morning on Sestak's claim that he was offered a job last summer by the Obama administration if he would not run against Sen. Arlen Specter (D-Pa.) in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary.

I reckon one of two things will happen after our system comes down. We will all go quietly into the night of full blown Hitler like tyranny and dictatorship or we will have some sort of Renaissance of progressive libertarianism (individual rights, clean food, clean water, police corruption from top to bottom, etc). If history is any lesson it's more likely to be the former. With no middle class we will be a third world country. Third World countries are always dictatorships. Sorry to say I think Igor Panarin is probably right.

The anti-war movement has to wake up in this country. It's the one real threat to the establishment. I can't believe it just goes to sleep whenever there is a Democrat in office. Where are all the Hippy war protesters anyway? Obama appears and they just all disappeared. It's like someone hit the MUTE button. You would think we weren't even at war anymore when we are quickly approaching the brink of WWIII. Things are escalating in the internatinoal scene very quickly at the moment with our incursions into Pakistan, North/South Korea standoff, and Israel and Iran.

In surmise. Vote out all the incumbents and vote in the anti-war crowd if you can find them. Be it our overseas wars or the war on drugs. If we don't stop the War on Drugs, The War on Terror, The War on Fat, The War on Poverty we are doomed to no end. These are Wars on the People that have intentional negative consequences, especiallly for the poor and middle class. What other country phrases EVERYTHING in the context of WAR anyway?

 

[ItsGrowTime]

JacktheGrower, well said.....the american empire is at crossroads i believe. I like some of libertarians view points, especially those personal rights. But overall i think the ideology lacks something very important.

Botanist ~ nothing as a novel, but to be hailed as the libertarian bible, the moral compass of humanity, is a little much. Seems like he named his kid after her, hes got to be a closet objectivist

Ron has stated publicly that his son is not named after Ayn Rand, and his full name is Randal Paul. I can see how a layman (to the Pauls) could draw that conclusion but it is not accurate.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I think Mr. Paul flip flopped.

Yeah, but he didn't. So, I have to question your thinking ability.

Do you request anything specific? I welcome the chance to clear the record on my thinking ability. If you get me in a corner and expose my recent, Dr. Paul comments, I promise not squirm and further justify. I'll directly address the verbatim comments and allow you to ask the questions and follow ups you feel cut through any fog, allowing others enough information to make the call.

In addition, I won't attempt to further obfuscate by suggesting your questions, (otherwise known as an interview) are somehow nefarious in nature. And ultimately I promise not to belatedly recognize my past statements as embarrassing enough to accuse you of the exact same, embarrassing thing.

I appreciate the opportunity and add that I'm aware there's no way a quote of mine can be taken out of context, since a "quote" is my own words. So rest assured I won't accuse you of that.

 

[bs0]

I feel the need to interject:

Being oposed to the patriot act does not make you a terrorist.

Being oposed to personal property legislation does not make you a racist.

You people are acting like this is a simple thing when it most certainly is not.

I believe in our liberties. One of those liberties (in my mind) is the liberty to make bad decisions.

Do I think the CRA needed to exist? At the time, yes. Today? I dare someone to open a whites only club, they would be hit with so much social backlash (and VERY RIGHTFULLY SO) that they would have to close. Even people who are probably racists (some in this thread) are very quick to distance themselves from racism!

Just because you won't tell the policeman where you are driving from dosent mean you have something to hide! Denying the police searching your car dosent mean you have guns inside! These also are rights of ours that more of you may be familiar with!

 

[JackTheGrower]

After doing some more reading I'm not 100% sold on Rand. I'm just glad to see any anti-establishment candidate get it there and change the status-quo national conversation.

I'm even thrilled Sestak won because Obama apparently offered him a job (read bribery) to drop out of the election. Anyone who challenges the status quo is good for the country IMO.

Sestak, White House still mum on alleged administration job offer

I reckon one of two things will happen after our system comes down. We will all go quietly into the night of full blown Hitler like tyranny and dictatorship or we will have some sort of Renaissance of progressive libertarianism (individual rights, clean food, clean water, police corruption from top to bottom, etc). If history is any lesson it's more likely to be the former. With no middle class we will be a third world country. Third World countries are always dictatorships. Sorry to say I think Igor Panarin is probably right.

The anti-war movement has to wake up in this country. It's the one real threat to the establishment. I can't believe it just goes to sleep whenever there is a Democrat in office. Where are all the Hippy war protesters anyway? Obama appears and they just all disappeared. It's like someone hit the MUTE button. You would think we weren't even at war any more when we are quickly approaching the brink of WWIII. Things are escalating in the international scene very quickly at the moment with our incursions into Pakistan, North/South Korea stand-off, and Israel and Iran.

In surmise. Vote out all the incumbents and vote in the anti-war crowd if you can find them. Be it our overseas wars or the war on drugs. If we don't stop the War on Drugs, The War on Terror, The War on Fat, The War on Poverty we are doomed to no end. These are Wars on the People that have intentional negative consequences, especiallly for the poor and middle class. What other country phrases EVERYTHING in the context of WAR anyway?

It's good that we are nit-picking this because we are thinking. I am so for Pro-Cannabis folks but I am disappointed with what I see as the Libertarian Half-Hearted-ness of legalizing.
It would seem they support freedom to grow and consume Cannabis but do not support a workforce that does.


I agree it's the Radical shift left that would have the best chance at correcting the slow and steady move towards Fascism.

So From what I can tell Tax2010's major Sponsor is also Libertarian. If we look at that Initiative we see the same concepts of allowing but limiting the lower classes economically.

The Idea of Property having a garden space of 5x5 and not a person. That we can grow,sell,possess but we loose our jobs if we test positive because the Initiative specifically avoids challenging the Supreme courts ruling that an Employee can be fired for testing positive.

So It is strange the Libertarians are the "leaders" of Legalization. They seem to be at most luke-warm supporters of a limited decriminalization.

So what had this Rand said directly on Cannabis.. Have any promises been made?

"Where have all the Hippies gone... Long Time Passing.. Where have all the Hippies gone long time ago."

 

[JackTheGrower]

Ron has stated publicly that his son is not named after Ayn Rand, and his full name is Randal Paul. I can see how a layman (to the Pauls) could draw that conclusion but it is not accurate.

I'm sure I don't know enough.. It was an interesting week with this.

 

[CANNATOPIA]

Great News!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I feel the need to interject:

Being oposed to the patriot act does not make you a terrorist.

No debate on that one. PA was a way to spy on us too. I'm opposed for that reason. Even if I don't have the information to make the right decision for the country. I can only hope PA is justified enough to pay for the right to spy on us. Pay in the form of recognizable arrests of terrorists.

Being oposed to personal property legislation does not make you a racist.

You're right. If personal property means my home, I can rail against the government (and anybody else I happen to hate) and not give a flip whether anybody thinks I'm a bigot. I could probably raise enough hell to get the local news wagon at my door, wanting an interview on my reasoning. Then when I realize I don't really want that stank hanging on my door like a sign, I either pipe down or I don't. I may not necessarily have broken any laws but society will threat me like Meathead treated Arch Bunker, lol. Like a bigot.

If my personal property means private business, I have a decision to make. If I'm opposed to the law, I've got an opportunity to be transparent. I can live my life amongst minorities enough to make charges of bigotry moot. Or I can live a life that suggests I'll not only support repeal, I'll use that repeal to ban minorities from my private business.

I don't have enough space to list all the players in civil rights discourse of the '60s alone. Add to the list, mass Washington Mall rallies that made Tea Parties look like the local VFW gatherings. All the violence, lynchings, and reprisals culminated in a Federally sponsored band aid. It's not a remedy, the boil festers beneath. The band-aid is only as good as it gets. Some folks choose to allow their boil to fester and repealing the band aid is all it would take to roll back the clock when boils oozed copious amounts.

You people are acting like this is a simple thing when it most certainly is not.

Maybe the reasoning behind the law was simple. Without a mandate, too many of the old guard kept their foot on the throat of minorities. Minorities weren't just left to live their lives, the unfortunate ones were victims of damage to property, harassment, crime, terrorism, physiological injury and death. Minorities lucky enough to escape these tragedies lived a life of exclusion from white-only businesses, homes and community amenities like parks, playgrounds and swimming pools. Even some whites that otherwise exhibited signs or racial tolerance were stymied into going along with a segregated society. Some whites intimidated other whites too.

So I hope being simple doesn't offend. Take that law away and things will go back to the 60s. Not nationwide but it'll still happen. And if it's allowed to happen again, it won't be like Dr. Paul suggests, that only a few people will make what he considers the biggest business mistake they can make. The parts of the country that do roll back the clock won't be a place to have a pee jar. It'll be a place on the map that's deliberately avoided.

I believe in our liberties. One of those liberties (in my mind) is the liberty to make bad decisions.

I've made a few. I smoke, drink and in the past, chopped a line from here to Texas. Told lies, broke hearts, broke the law. And all of them were bad decisions.

Do I think the CRA needed to exist? At the time, yes. Today? I dare someone to open a whites only club, they would be hit with so much social backlash (and VERY RIGHTFULLY SO) that they would have to close. Even people who are probably racists (some in this thread) are very quick to distance themselves from racism!

But some of them want the right to turn minorities away. Some of them will if repeal is allowed. It won't be the passive bigots, it'll be the ones liked I mentioned. Marked on the map and avoided. But their new segregation will attract enough business for some of them to not only exist but flourish.

Just because you won't tell the policeman where you are driving from dosent mean you have something to hide! Denying the police searching your car dosent mean you have guns inside! These also are rights of ours that more of you may be familiar with!

But imagine that cop ain't a cop. He's a good ol' boy and just happens to not like yer skin color. There ain't no rights when a bigot decides to show what it's all about.

 

[bs0]

You're right. If personal property means my home, I can rail against the government (and anybody else I happen to hate) and not give a flip whether anybody thinks I'm a bigot. I could probably raise enough hell to get the local news wagon at my door, wanting an interview on my reasoning. Then when I realize I don't really want that stank hanging on my door like a sign, I either pipe down or I don't. I may not necessarily have broken any laws but society will threat me like Meathead treated Arch Bunker, lol. Like a bigot.

If my personal property means private business, I have a decision to make. If I'm opposed to the law, I've got an opportunity to be transparent. I can live my life amongst minorities enough to make charges of bigotry moot. Or I can live a life that suggests I'll not only support repeal, I'll use that repeal to ban minorities from my private business.

Umm... Like I said, me wanting to control my own property does not mean I am a bigot. I merely want to control my own property. Private means owned by me. You write a lot of this paragraph in the 'If i want the stink on my door or not' where you really miss the point of what I said.

Wanting control of my own property inherently has no bias or predisposition. These biases and predispositions are assumed by you, and then you are commenting on your assumption. I disagree with this logic.

If I want to allow people to smoke cigarettes in my place of business in my state I am legally restricted. I simply cannot let people do a legal activity because someone legislated it. I think this is wrong.

Allow your mind the ability to see that his position is not inherently evil, that he possibly does see it in the pure sense I do: we deserve to control our own bodies and own property.

So I hope being simple doesn't offend. Take that law away and things will go back to the 60s. Not nationwide but it'll still happen. And if it's allowed to happen again, it won't be like Dr. Paul suggests, that only a few people will make what he considers the biggest business mistake they can make. The parts of the country that do roll back the clock won't be a place to have a pee jar. It'll be a place on the map that's deliberately avoided.

I don't understand... You caution me about offending me and then tell me that you agree. Do I think that we should repeal the CRA? No. Do I think we would suddenly revert to a feral southern 1940's sort of complete idiocy if we did? Also no. And we don't need a nanny big brother standing over us saying 'oh behave children'.

I've made a few. I smoke, drink and in the past, chopped a line from here to Texas. Told lies, broke hearts, broke the law. And all of them were bad decisions.

But some of them want the right to turn minorities away. Some of them will if repeal is allowed. It won't be the passive bigots, it'll be the ones liked I mentioned. Marked on the map and avoided. But their new segregation will attract enough business for some of them to not only exist but flourish.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you, 100%. This is the era of big business. No big business could endorse segregation, this is a simple economic fact. Do you see apple starting to put out ads of 'whites only' or target starting an ad campaign 'where you shop to be away from the jews'? I really think that we are, as a society as a whole, capable of self-policing these type of issues. Which brings me to the following:

But imagine that cop ain't a cop. He's a good ol' boy and just happens to not like yer skin color. There ain't no rights when a bigot decides to show what it's all about.

Look at what happened to Arizona?

Ostracized, ridiculed, boycotted. Made fun of on Late Night Tv, headlined on cnn.com.

Hell I welcome people trying to start segregation again, it would just let me know who to toilet-paper and throw eggs at.

 

[bs0]

I'm even thrilled Sestak won because Obama apparently offered him a job (read bribery) to drop out of the election. Anyone who challenges the status quo is good for the country IMO.

Sestak, White House still mum on alleged administration job offer

Gramps, there comes a point where responding to every single individual claim of impropriety plays into the hands of those who would discredit you. Wait till you see a princess-of-england style video or audio proof. The way allegations fly these days ("Obama is a Nazi!") if you stoop to the level of defending each and every outlandish claim you allow the idiocy to take full control.

I reckon one of two things will happen after our system comes down. We will all go quietly into the night of full blown Hitler like tyranny and dictatorship or we will have some sort of Renaissance of progressive libertarianism (individual rights, clean food, clean water, police corruption from top to bottom, etc). If history is any lesson it's more likely to be the former. With no middle class we will be a third world country. Third World countries are always dictatorships.

I ....

Umm....

I'm not seeing the descent to apocalyptic wasteland. Just not seeing it. I can't respond to your doomsday scenario because I don't think that it is relevant. Hitler? What? Gonna at least have to show me unstoppable inflation of the dollar before I give that even a half of a thought. The US is as strong as ever, despite the idiotic concept of deficit spending. (And anyone who believes in fiscal responsibility be sure to avoid Tim Pawlenty... He just completely screwed my state by pushing back all his incurred debt until he is out of office. and he is considered a leading republican candidate for president.)

I highlighted your 'progressive libertarianism' because it really did make me laugh out loud. You had me going, I was like "damn, fresh water? clean food? individual rights? I'm sold ... WAIT POLICE CORRUPTION TOP TO BOTTOM WHERE DID YOU COME FROM?"

I laughed pretty hard.

I liked the sound... Progressive Libertarianism... Someone who believes in the advancement of society as well as personal liberties? That's like the best of both big ideologies! But police corruption? That's a nonstarter for sure.

In surmise. Vote out all the incumbents and vote in the anti-war crowd if you can find them. Be it our overseas wars or the war on drugs. If we don't stop the War on Drugs, The War on Terror, The War on Fat, The War on Poverty we are doomed to no end. These are Wars on the People that have intentional negative consequences, especiallly for the poor and middle class. What other country phrases EVERYTHING in the context of WAR anyway?

I do agree with you though. Our country has fought far too many optional wars. This world police shit has got to end. I actually will follow your advice, I will seek out every person who I can find who voted pro-war or pro-patriot act and vote for their opponent. I don't know what is with this shit. And if you oppose whatever idiot war they come up with you are 'unamerican'. Blame Foxnews and MSNBC for this idiotic situation we find ourselves in. Nobody can talk anymore about problems because if someone manages to convince you of their position you are labeled a 'flip flopper'! Understanding that you are not infallible is a quality that I WANT in my leaders! If you are unable to consider the opposition rationally you don't have the ability to participate in useful discourse.

Kinda like how in this thread if you oppose infringements on personal property rights you are automatically a bigot.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Umm... Like I said, me wanting to control my own property does not mean I am a bigot. I merely want to control my own property. Private means owned by me. You write a lot of this paragraph in the 'If i want the stink on my door or not' where you really miss the point of what I said.

Then spell it out. If "control" of your personal property turns out to be controlling your private business by turning away for your private reason, sorry. Too many people did that until almost 46 years ago.

Wanting control of my own property inherently has no bias or predisposition. These biases and predispositions are assumed by you, and then you are commenting on your assumption. I disagree with this logic.

Suit yourself. But the law assumes, I just point it out. I think you disagree with part of it.

If I want to allow people to smoke cigarettes in my place of business in my state I am legally restricted. I simply cannot let people do a legal activity because someone legislated it. I think this is wrong.

So how is a legal restriction a legal activity? It's only legal outside your legal restriction. Smokers and non-smokers alike have groups lobbying for their right to smoke or not. Non-smokers won.

Allow your mind the ability to see that his position is not inherently evil, that he possibly does see it in the pure sense I do: we deserve to control our own bodies and own property.

Allow your mind the ability to see the fact there's nothing pure about racial discrimination. Allow your mind the ability to see your own position isn't transparent enough to "control" others if that control exercises them from your private business.

I don't understand... You caution me about offending me and then tell me that you agree. Do I think that we should repeal the CRA? No. Do I think we would suddenly revert to a feral southern 1940's sort of complete idiocy if we did? Also no. And we don't need a nanny big brother standing over us saying 'oh behave children'.

I only agree the CRA should not be repealed. I don't agree with your "feral southern" idea. Repeal would affect more than the south and I don't think private business owners would collectively respond the way you think they would

I wholeheartedly disagree with you, 100%. This is the era of big business. No big business could endorse segregation, this is a simple economic fact.

It's a fact some private business owners would disagree with you. Being a private business owner doesn't give you a leg up on prophecy. Two centuries of racial strife as a nation trumps any idea your brethren will respond collectively.

Do you see apple starting to put out ads of 'whites only' or target starting an ad campaign 'where you shop to be away from the jews'? I really think that we are, as a society as a whole, capable of self-policing these type of issues. Which brings me to the following:



Look at what happened to Arizona?

Ostracized, ridiculed, boycotted. Made fun of on Late Night Tv, headlined on cnn.com.

Hell I welcome people trying to start segregation again, it would just let me know who to toilet-paper and throw eggs at.

If your welcome is seen as condoning discrimination, your bottom line will suffer. Self policing brought down Tech, Energy, Housing, Wall Street..........Can ya hear me now? Self policing is an urban myth.

Which brings me to the following:

If you don't like the government telling you what to do, contact your representative. Avoid looking like you're discussing these points with discrimination in mind or your bottom line might suffer. Throwing eggs and toilet paper would only perpetuate the things you say wouldn't happen. It would happen and if you lived up to your boasts of retaliation, you'd just make what you say wouldn't happen worse. Sounds like an us against them mentality from a fella that's a little vague about "control." I hope you don't get your opportunity because your retaliation is a vigilant stance toward the outcome you say won't happen. That makes me wonder what you really want.