question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[bushweed]

Looking at the structure of Nevil's Haze and another haze I have that purportedly 'comes from Sam's garden' (and looks a lot like the ones that passed thru Nevil's hands), then compared to various Thais that are available, I agree with Sam that modern Haze doesn't appear to have a lot of Thai in it. Haze has an elegant xmas tree shape with great symmetry and the potential for colored colas. Different Thais have different structures, but I've yet to see the elegant xmas tree shape or the colored colas. Although I acknowledge the truth that some Thais and Colombians share more similarities than differences.

 

[Jhonny]

I see so many people searching for the incense trait in Haze, but the first Hazes I had the pleasure to try around 88'-90' had no incense smell/taste at all. They had a very special and unforgettable floral taste, that was nor citric nor sweet. Just an amazing floral smell that I can't describe; with a very unique odor when burnt. The buds had a green yellowish colour.

The high was so incredibely cerebral... many friends did not like it because it was to much for them. On that weed you was able to feel your pulse in your head!
My uncle still says that it is the most cerebral weed he ever had.

It must have been Original Haze, because we were able to find exactly the same thing, sold as "haze" in many shops in South Netherlands and Amsterdam.

Then when the new Haze hybrids invaded the Netherlands in the 90s , these kind of smells that I allways related to Haze got replaced by the incense smells that stand today for haze.

I also love(d) the amazing strong soapy to churchy incense flavors the Haze hybrids had in the 90s, but what I miss more is the haze that was sold before.


@Sam
or @ others

Do you know which "haze" I'm speaking of?
Was it the green pheno of the original haze that was going around during that time?

I think Ill try my luck one day (or better "one year") with an old Seedsman Original Haze pack and some OT Haze beans. But I'm not very confident to find something that will remind me those old flavors.

 

[Mtn. Nectar]

always interesting thoughts folks........

searching for mid 70's purple Haze.............for myself it is the standard when comes to Hazes.........prolly more leaning on Col. side of......

haze on braddahs..........

 

[NEGT1]

Such blurred lines between "haze" and all early worked sativa's.


It's like haze and kush are replacing sativa and indica.

 

[mexcurandero420]

The Haze with the strong incense aroma i smoked in the early 90s was certainly not a hybrid.

Keep on growing

 

[beta]

Is there a single haze out there today that lives up to the hype? Having never tried a good haze and also noticing that all the smoke reports are based on 20+ year old memories, I'm starting to wonder if this is a situation where everyone is remembering something more fondly than it deserves?

 

[Mustafunk]

Is there a single haze out there today that lives up to the hype? Having never tried a good haze and also noticing that all the smoke reports are based on 20+ year old memories, I'm starting to wonder if this is a situation where everyone is remembering something more fondly than it deserves?

Not really man... sure you have good hazes nowadays! You have plenty to choose. From the compact and fast Tom's Hill Haze, to the old Original Haze from TFD/Seedsman (source is Sam for both) or even the alternative and more diverse OT Haze bred by Charlie Garcia from some rare old haze lines preserved in UK since the 70s. All different but all good representations of the old Haze in my opinion. None of them will dissapoint anyone lookig for the legendary Haze.

You even have good hybrids if you need something a bit faster, like the Haze hybrids from Sam (Thai Haze/Skunk, Haze/Skunk). You have all the dutch haze hybrids too but those are a bit more commercial and skunk/afghan leaning if you are looking for haze effects.

Smokin a good haze is easier than ever nowadays!



PS: have a look at this thread, where a good fella grows all those different Hazes side by side: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=244221&page=8

Or this one from another fella, where you can find lots of nice info on hazes too, "Hazemania": https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=255216

 

[Koondense]

Great links, Mustafunk. Thanks a lot

 

[Dave Coulier]

Is there a single haze out there today that lives up to the hype? Having never tried a good haze and also noticing that all the smoke reports are based on 20+ year old memories, I'm starting to wonder if this is a situation where everyone is remembering something more fondly than it deserves?

Like Mustafunk said try some of Sam's Haze Hybrids. His Haze/Skunk is excellent herb. Ive yet to try his Thunk, but I have seeds waiting in the fridge for some special day. Im sure you'll find something really interesting in those two varieties.

 

[Jhonny]

Smokin a good haze is easier than ever nowadays!

Yes, but easy does not mean better

 

[Illuminate]

^^Agreed, the haze people now look for is a mix of skunk NL and haze...i remember asking for haze everywhere years ago and not finding it in Holland easy, now its all SSH and its hybrids, the locals say most of the old strains like orange bud etc are gone, now there is only 'haze'..but no original haze from what i saw.

 

[mukuku]

because "original haze" does not exist

haze = multi-hybrids not stabilized

my preference is SSH and Neville haze...

hybridation improve haze power ! dixit sam the skunkman himself !

 

[Thule]

It's amazing how a legend like Original Haze can just disappear from the market. If not for Tom Hill it would be gone already. Dutchmen's one looks hybrid and Seedsman ran out years ago. Most Ohaze in circulation probably originates from a single reproduction done years ago by a Dutch company in Spain, that's what I read anyway. That's why many seedbanks had the same strains like Original Haze and Indian Haze some time ago, they got them from the same people.

 

[Jhonny]

my preference is SSH and Neville haze...

hybridation improve haze power ! dixit sam the skunkman himself !

yes, but it also looses the haze spirit!

 

[mukuku]

I agree with that too.

you can't improve the haze spirit !

 

[rik78]

the Oldtimer's Haze that Mustafunk speak about is one of your best bet

the whole history is out there, so look for it, in this our forum.

Oldtimer, a english breeder, have some old seed from the 70s-80s, from a good source.
#he pass the seeds to Charlie Garcia, breeder of Cannabiogen and at that time aslo breeder for ACE, who is the bank selling them today

No new info here, this history is old and can be verified

my 2p

 

[bigherb]

Looking at the structure of Nevil's Haze and another haze I have that purportedly 'comes from Sam's garden' (and looks a lot like the ones that passed thru Nevil's hands), then compared to various Thais that are available, I agree with Sam that modern Haze doesn't appear to have a lot of Thai in it. Haze has an elegant xmas tree shape with great symmetry and the potential for colored colas. Different Thais have different structures, but I've yet to see the elegant xmas tree shape or the colored colas. Although I acknowledge the truth that some Thais and Colombians share more similarities than differences.

Sup Bushy

Hope all is well brother ,I hope you had a great harvest season from this summer's Gems you hold


I Respect and appreciate your input especially considering your vast experience with Sativas Thai inparticular .But you know very well you can't compare a Haze hybrid with A pure Haze .Nevilles Haze or which ever Sams Haze hybrid you refer to unless is a Pure cant compare to the Original Haze of the 70's .Especially in reguard to characteristic of growth to decipher possible lineage

Nevilles Haze is Heavy sativa dom in most phenos aswell as many of his hybrids but Nevil never offered a pure haze .So its hard to Compare his offerings .IME MNS Skunk Haze was More sativa/Haze than Sams Sk/Hz offering from what ive seen posted.Soo I imagine selection is key but I also imagine its a haze from a different generation aswell as genetic

If the story of the origin by Sams has been followed it was in reference to J an RL .According to Sams J helped G the originator with his first grows in the moutains before the green houses an RL came into the Pic .It seems to me Sams didn't have much relation with G as he was never even acknowledged until after my article came about

As mentioned again by Sams which in my mind coincides with my belief Sams said in the 80's as far as he knew neither brother had any haze seeds left (but this was in reguard to J n R ).Which according to my source is wrong G still has seeds an has attempted to germ them


Sams exacts words weren't modern haze doesn't have thai but that the first Haze was All Colombian an RL/J used Thai an S.indian in a minority.Santa marta Gold an wacky weed were the first Colombians he mentioned .Now its Punto Rojo a magenta an green variety


IME little/lame but I do what I can 2 -3 selections of each But Tomhill Haze was a lighter green an wider leaf than Colombian Gold via HHF right next to her .CG was a thinner leaf with a dark shade green .The CG had more stretch and more branching .

Probably a bad comparison but we are comparing pure Colombian's in thought tom hills haze is pure Colombian/'s aka Santa Cruz Original Haze F20 + an CG is derived from two pure Colombian lines a Gold bud an a mota aka rainbow type .Also just to compare tom hill haze an nevilles haze a haze hybrid but the bud structure of NH IME from four phenos to two THH phenos .The Nevilles haze from 3 phenos is more sativa dom in appearance .I know selection plays a key role

BTW Im not sayin that I will say or can say which is thai dom an which is lumbo dom Haze selection but IMO there is different variants/hybrids in all of todays offerings

1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

I definetly did Ramble on abit I getting excited with these convos ,soo many thoughts n feelings .

But I do appreciated you sharing your thought of the Genetics in Nevilles Haze being Lumbo leaning as oppose to thia excuse me I meant thai .

The Punto rojo from Charlie Garcia has my interest since first mentioned .Ive searched every thread an pic I could find an the phenos are wild pure NLD Old school Lumbo definetly wont finish in NYC .They actually started to remind me of my recent Neville Haze haze dom pheno .Of course NH is indo Bred refined as oppose to the Punto Rojo . But the growth of Calyx formation an Foxtails share similarities I pondered on .

Ill post pics soon of the NH Nugs .and links/pics the PR from our latin brothers

BTW ive said it before but id love to see you grow Punto Rojo

Much respect

1luvbigherb

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Biggie

Nevil did sell a Haze on Haze .
He reversed the male and made seeds . One catalogue lists them .

And there was a post re by NVL at Mr Nice .

Also I think the Haze selections done by NVL and friends was done in green houses early days . NVL was still learning the indoor techs from The Northern Lights Crew in the early days pre Castle .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[bigherb]

Id also like to thank all who contributed to this thread

Mustafunk

I agree, all words of wisdom

Thule

I asked this question long ago ,I actually started a thread at da Farm .At the time I was young minded an didn't understand .It was frustrating to comprehend or accept

But we now know She died out in 81 as stopped yielding from being soo inbred .There were no clones saved ,soo you have her alive threw these hybrids which have been mention but the old Gal has not survived .Maybe in the mountains or held in seed or in our dreams

Jhonny

You are correct the hybrids effect are only a sample of the Original Haze .You cant compare a plant which was in the ground for 8-9 months to a hybrid that is grown indoor for for less than half that time .Which is another reason I believe all sativas NLD of yesteryear were soo special


1luvbigherb