Propylene Glyco

[mad librettist]

Now that's a little much isn't it? Does not this Gravity shit consist of 98% Propylene Glyco? Polluted enough for you?

just sayin.... I have kept bud fresh using propylene glycol, and if you read food labels you start to notice it is everywhere.

I'm not saying it's good to chuck propylene glycol at your soil, but I do feel it's a safe preservative for smokables..

I'm just saying there is a bit of an overreaction and a misunderstanding of why it is a problematic pollutant around airports. It's absolutely a question of a relatively harmless product causing problems when overused.

 

[Stankie]

BUT - if we started soaping up and rinsing all the planes that land at JFK, then Jamaica Bay would look like a massive algae bloom followed by a dead zone.

Pollution is when you have too much of something.



I think h.h. may have a good point about the (over) reaction to propylene glycol.

Copper chromium arsenate can increase production in soils. Would you consider using this in your soil?

The "I only use a little bit of poison" argument holds no water with me. Pouring a known toxic petroleum distillate onto my organic medicine garden is not gonna happen, no matter what the marketing department tells you about 'densifying'. Using it as a humidity control is a little different than pouring it on your soil.

I'm not here to advocate as much as to take away any mystery. There has been lot of false information being presented.
Methanogenic? Like cow dung? Controlled by the oxygen and nitrates already in the soil. Doesn't sound serious. I haven't noticed any O or N deficiencies in it's use.
CO2, a greenhouse gas, probably the best argument I've heard against it's use. Supporting the manufacturing process may prove equally as argumentive. Compared to digging bat shit from a cave and shipping it to us, I don't know if it is an excessive amount.Some here purposely use CO2...I don't know,
B.Mainstream Smoke I. Gas PhaseUnitsMarijuanaTobacco Carbon Monoxide % 3.99 4.58 Seems marijuana puts off a bit as well..

Most people try to stop the formation of co2 and methane in the rhizosphere. Maybe I'm missing something? Maybe I should be trying for an anaerobic soil that smell like decaying fecal matter Should I not add aeration amendments from now on?

Using a product that consumes mass amounts of soil oxygen and results in methane and co2 production in the soil seems counterintuitive to me.

 

[h.h.]

You've done just fine posting the negatives;



What positives would there be, besides the lining of the pockets of the company smart enough to use a cheap chemical they can put in bottles to dupe poor potheads?

Scientific reaction? I'm not Bill Nye, the science guy. I was actually addressing Mad anyway.

Excuse me for interrupting in my thread. LOL
It seems that water would be a cheaper ingredient. It's what most use.
I'm thinking, being a mild alcohol and solvent, it is used to get the most out of the kelp extract. Not really bad in itself when treated correctly and a convenience for some. It has been for me. Putting kelp through a natural fermentation process appears it might be just as effective. Something I need to try and something I'm apparently doing with yucca. I'm digging up some aloe I buried in the sand maybe 6 months ago and am finding the fermenting material, when opened, dissipates easier. It's thinner. The cells are breaking down. Still smells fresh and almost even tastes better.

While the both of you are here I do have a question.

I bought some feed store molasses last year making the mistake of not checking the label. Basically sulphur and pottassium salts. I put in chunks of dead yucca , that was really dark from desert microbes, bugs and stuff. Chunks of fiber half in and half out. Islands for activity, I figured. Adding little filtered water and some lacto at first, then more water along with some (ducks head) Great White for a few months as it dissipated, finally letting it dry out except for rain and a little snow.
Can I assume the sulfur has been consumed and hopefully the salts?

 

[Microbeman]

a relatively harmless product causing problems when overused.

As in comprising 98% of a product meant to be used in soil? Or am I offbase? Is it a product for preserving your buds?

 

[Microbeman]

Excuse me for interrupting in my thread. LOL
It seems that water would be a cheaper ingredient. It's what most use.
I'm thinking, being a mild alcohol and solvent, it is used to get the most out of the kelp extract. Not really bad in itself when treated correctly and a convenience for some. It has been for me. Putting kelp through a natural fermentation process appears it might be just as effective. Something I need to try and something I'm apparently doing with yucca. I'm digging up some aloe I buried in the sand maybe 6 months ago and am finding the fermenting material, when opened, dissipates easier. It's thinner. The cells are breaking down. Still smells fresh and almost even tastes better.

While the both of you are here I do have a question.

I bought some feed store molasses last year making the mistake of not checking the label. Basically sulphur and pottassium salts. I put in chunks of dead yucca , that was really dark from desert microbes, bugs and stuff. Chunks of fiber half in and half out. Islands for activity, I figured. Adding little filtered water and some lacto at first, then more water along with some (ducks head) Great White for a few months as it dissipated, finally letting it dry out except for rain and a little snow.
Can I assume the sulfur has been consumed and hopefully the salts?

You could assume some interesting life forms

BTW just meant I was not hacking on you but on Mad.

 

[h.h.]

Copper chromium arsenate can increase production in soils. Would you consider using this in your soil?

The "I only use a little bit of poison" argument holds no water with me. Pouring a known toxic petroleum distillate onto my organic medicine garden is not gonna happen, no matter what the marketing department tells you about 'densifying'. Using it as a humidity control is a little different than pouring it on your soil.




Most people try to stop the formation of co2 and methane in the rhizosphere. Maybe I'm missing something? Maybe I should be trying for an anaerobic soil that smell like decaying fecal matter Should I not add aeration amendments from now on?

Using a product that consumes mass amounts of soil oxygen and results in methane and co2 production in the soil seems counterintuitive to me.

Seems it would be the microbes consuming the oxygen. Any CO2 hasn't shown up as a problem in my use. Perhaps in accumulation. I would think in a well aeriated soil, it would be offgassed.
If the alcohol is dissipated by the microbe, it would seem that they are feeding of of it.
It could well be counter intuitive in poor quality soil that isn't well aerated, overwatered, or has little to no activity.

 

[h.h.]

You could assume some interesting life forms

BTW just meant I was not hacking on you but on Mad.

No problem with the hacking. I'm just digging deeper.
At what point might I be breading acid resistant e-coli? Would it have to be a really low pH? It was staying about 5.5+-. Reconstituting it, I haven't checked. Seems molasses was always a bit low.

 

[GoneRooty]

just sayin.... I have kept bud fresh using propylene glycol, and if you read food labels you start to notice it is everywhere.

I'm not saying it's good to chuck propylene glycol at your soil, but I do feel it's a safe preservative for smokables..

I'm just saying there is a bit of an overreaction and a misunderstanding of why it is a problematic pollutant around airports. It's absolutely a question of a relatively harmless product causing problems when overused.

Why not use Silica Gel packs for moisture control, I know a lot of those little dessicant packs in things are made of silica gel now. And how are you sure that none of the PG is leaking out of those packs onto your buds?
And how can it be an over-reaction when even the EPA suggests avoiding skin contact with PG because it can lead to brain, kidney and liver abnormalities?
If you guys are ok taking the risks of brain, kidney and liver abnormalities by using propylene glycol, more power to you.

 

[mad librettist]

Why not use Silica Gel packs for moisture control, I know a lot of those little dessicant packs in things are made of silica gel now. And how are you sure that none of the PG is leaking out of those packs onto your buds?
And how can it be an over-reaction when even the EPA suggests avoiding skin contact with PG because it can lead to brain, kidney and liver abnormalities?
If you guys are ok taking the risks of brain, kidney and liver abnormalities by using propylene glycol, more power to you.

propylene glycol is not a dessicant. It keeps things moist without causing problems with fungus. It is standard stuff in the cigar world.

Copper chromium arsenate can increase production in soils. Would you consider using this in your soil?

The "I only use a little bit of poison" argument holds no water with me. Pouring a known toxic petroleum distillate onto my organic medicine garden is not gonna happen, no matter what the marketing department tells you about 'densifying'. Using it as a humidity control is a little different than pouring it on your soil.

this is confused too, about the point I was making. if we started hosing down all the planes at JFK with, let's say, bat guano mixed with water, we would cause damage to nearby Jamaica Bay that would make everyone forget about the propylene glycol in winter.

The propylene glycol is a problem because it is sprayed in massive amounts, in cold temperatures, and often near water that can't handle the load. There is really no comparison to be made between propylene glycol and copper chromium arsenate.

Quote:
a relatively harmless product causing problems when overused.


As in comprising 98% of a product meant to be used in soil? Or am I offbase? Is it a product for preserving your buds?

Yeah, I wouldn't put it in soil. I agree with you there. But I'm also wary of the heat being produced on this thread relative to the amount of light.

 

[h.h.]

I think the heat comes from knowing there are perhaps better alternatives to it's use with a little imagination and a bit of work.
I started this thread to try and dispel some of the stories being generated. Now it's probably best to let it go hence somehow somebody sees it as an endorsement. It isn't.
PG is simply another tool that is in my opinion from all the actual data I could find, harmless for those who chose to use products containing such. I've seen what I could do with them after several trials without them. Now that I know the level a plant can be taken to, it's time to match that level without it. Other than breaking down the kelp, it seems fairly useless in itself. It's an expensive way of doing so.

 

[GoneRooty]

propylene glycol is not a dessicant. It keeps things moist without causing problems with fungus. It is standard stuff in the cigar world.

Quite right Mad. Here is another option from the cigar world, it uses a saturated salt solution to maintain humidity.
http://www.bovedadirect.com/company/message.cfm

I couldn't find a MSDS on it, but according to them its just water and natural salt.

 

[mad librettist]

the boveda packs are outstanding.

here is a cool trick with the bovedas - put some sticky velcro on the inside lid of a kief box. Slap the other side on a boveda pack and stick it to the inside of the lid. You can then keep a nice serving of bud in there, out on the coffee table or whatever, and it won't turn to powdery dryness on you. That means you open your jars less often.

If it's in the hay stage (fermenting in your jars, btw), breathing a bit in the kief box can bring the flavors back.

 

[descivii]

Equilibrium relative humidity of some saturated salt solutions 25ºC
Salt R.H. % Salt R.H. %
Cesium flouride 3.39 ± 0.94 Sodium bromide 57.57 ± 0.40
Lithium bromide 6.37 ± 0.52 Cobald chloride 64.92 ± 3.50
Zinc bromide 7.75 ± 0.39 Potassium iodide 68.86 ± 0.24
Potassium hydroxide 8.23 ± 0.72 Strontium chloride 70.85 ± 0.04
Sodium hydroxide 8.24 ± 2.1 Sodium nitrate 74.25 ± 0.32
Lithium chloride 11.30 ± 0.27 Sodium chloride 75.29 ± 0.12
Calcium bromide 16.50 ± 0.20 Ammonium chloride 78.57 ± 0.40
Lithium iodide 17.56 ± 0.13 Potassium bromide 80.89 ± 0.21
Potassium acetate 22.51 ± 0.32 Ammonium sulphate 80.99 ± 0.28
Potassium flouride 30.85 ± 1.3 Potassium chloride 85.06 ± 0.38
Magnesium chloride 32.78 ± 0.16 Strontium nitrate 85.06 ± 0.38
Sodium iodide 38.17 ± 0.50 Potassium nitrate 93.58 ± 0.55
Potassium carbonate 43.16 ± 0.39 Potassium sulphate 97.30 ± 045
Magnesium nitrate 52.89 ± 0.22 Potassium chromate 97.88 ± 0.49

Here's some and here's the page: http://bio.groups.et.byu.net/EquilibriumSS.phtml

J
Sorry, tried to clean it up but the format reverts back to a clutter, its here though in case the page drops off or something

 

[Mountain]

I worked with an organic chemist for about a year and on one project we used food grade propylene glycol, potassium permanganate and a few other things trying to find a new pathway to create something. He said food grade propylene glycol is (was maybe) used as the base to create 'synthetic' flavors like cherry and stuff. He said it could be manipulated in a variety of different ways.

I asked him to teach me how to make C4 and mescaline and he said no. At the time I thought it would have been cool to blow things up while tripping...lol.

Anyway...PG is used for more things than peeps are aware of.

 

[mad librettist]

thank you mountain.

I was starting to wonder about my sanity.

again.

 

[master shake]

Propylene Glycol, that's just regular engine coolant right?? Gonna make a trip to AutoZone then. They'd never suspect a grower there!

 

[Mountain]

Dude...when he said 'I'm gonna use some PG and turn it into something else' I was like...uhhhh...OK. He sure did know his shite though. I was like 'Shouldn't I be throwing this stuff in my radiator instead?'. I have no idea what the difference is between food grade and non-food grade PG.

 

[mad librettist]

me neither!

and it doesn't belong in soil additives either way.

 

[supermanlives]

not in my garden.

 

[mostnonymouse]

It's a large part of those new "water enhancement" drops you see advertised under the brand name "Mio". I avoid chemicals like that in my diet as a matter of choice...for the same reasons I choose to pay more for non-gmo organic veggies, grass-fed beef, free range chicken and raw milk, however millions of Americans consume the stuff each day. "They say" it's safe. "They" also say the food you're eating is healthy and isn't the reason that heart disease, cancer and stroke are the leading causes of death in America. I choose to question everything "they say" for damn good reason.

Bottom line: It's probably not going to make you sick or cause any sort of immediate reaction, but most of us choose to avoid all aspects of artificial because the way nature intended is supremely effective, and keeping that stuff out of your soil allows for nature to do as it pleases with as stable an environment as possible.