Promix vs Coco coir

[Hammerhead]

The simplest solution is almost always the best... PH is off.

 

[Switcher56]

Keep going again and again improving until you get it right, basically what we all did and do still

Agree! Basically when we look at the original post, what is the ?

Could someone pls explain the differences of growing In peat moss from the coco perspective?

For example, they say coco is hungry for extra calmag right? Something to do with potassium in the coco?? So a person is supposed to add extra calmag to coco coir grows.

Promix is already buffered with lime, so it's already loaded with calmag?? Is this correct?

My promix grows are always deficient, yellowing along the entire edges of the margin. Why?

Let's say in coco, I am feeding 5 ml calmag, 2ml grow, 5 ml micro, 10 ml bloom....how would I amend this for promix?? In the past I just cut the calmag from the mixture, or might add 1ml, but I get above stated deficiency on fan leaves.

Promix retains to fucking much water I have a hard time getting nutrients to the plant bc the medium stays so saturated.

Anyone have any tips or secrets or anecdotes ??

... and

Creeperpark I agree man, and tbh, my promix plants have came out much better than my coco plants. Much better smell, taste, bud structure was much tighter and not as fluffy as my coco buds tend to be.

Problem is I cant seem to grow as well in promix and it's got me fucked up

... see where I am going with this!

 

[.............]

Agree! Basically when we look at the original post, what is the ?



... and



... see where I am going with this!

 

[Hammerhead]

If using LED lights plants will need more heat and cal/mag than under HID....

 

[BobChronic6505]

Switcher56 heres what I'm trying to say about promix. During the growing cycle, my promix plants are always deficient. Never perfect looking. Yelling margins.

BUT, in the end, the actual dried and cured bud turns out Ok, but my plants look like shit when they are growing.

when i grow in coco, i have zero deficiency, but dried and cured buds dont come out as good as promix.

Does this make sense to you now?

I want the promix plants to be perfect, zero deficiency throughout the entire grow. I dont want them to he deficient the entire time and just hope the bud comes out ok!!

 

[Hammerhead]

You have not listed what your ph is or what you feed?. If you are using the same PH as coco that is your problem

 

[BobChronic6505]

[USER][/USER]Hammerhead my PH 6.3.

I feed calmag, GH 3part, kool bloom, recharge, mammoth p, humid acid.

In the past, and for example, when I feed my coco plants, it would be something like 5ml calmag, 2 ml grow, 5 ml micro, 10 ml bloom.

I do the same for the promix plants except I'll cut the calmag down to 1ml. PH is still 6.2 to 6.3

 

[Switcher56]

Over my head!

 

[Switcher56]

Switcher56 heres what I'm trying to say about promix. During the growing cycle, my promix plants are always deficient. Never perfect looking. Yelling margins.

BUT, in the end, the actual dried and cured bud turns out Ok, but my plants look like shit when they are growing.

when i grow in coco, i have zero deficiency, but dried and cured buds dont come out as good as promix.

Does this make sense to you now?

I want the promix plants to be perfect, zero deficiency throughout the entire grow. I dont want them to he deficient the entire time and just hope the bud comes out ok!!

Do you use the same nutes? If so that could be your culprit. I have to read between the lines here, your are talking GH with hammerhead. Are you talking General Hydro? If so, that could very well be the culprit. I was running the GO line, General Organic and I always had issues, especially when in flower 4-5 week. I quit using them and now is like I said, set it and forget it.

The grow is in my sig.

 

[BobChronic6505]

Switcher56 yes General Hydroponics flora trio, grow micro, bloom.

I checked your photos they look good man. I'm assuming that is in promix? What do u feed?

I tried organic one time and I like the idea of it, which is why I got into using promix to begin with. But I think organic growing is outside of my skill level right now, as I had a hard time with it.

Right now I'd like just to get perfect plants with promix, from beginning to end.

 

[Hammerhead]

Hammerhead my PH 6.3.

I feed calmag, GH 3part, kool bloom, recharge, mammoth p, humid acid.

In the past, and for example, when I feed my coco plants, it would be something like 5ml calmag, 2 ml grow, 5 ml micro, 10 ml bloom.

I do the same for the promix plants except I'll cut the calmag down to 1ml. PH is still 6.2 to 6.3

6.3 for coco is high., should be 5.8.... Always check it before you feed.. Adding anything will change the PH. 6.3 for promix is on the low end. It should not be used as your baseline. 6.5 is your baseline for promix. You can feed a few times at the lower end 6.3 and at the high end 6.7. You should be feeding 6.5 most of the time.

You only need recharge or mammoth you do not need both... Humic Acid I dont think you need this... Mammoth will take care of your roots.

 

[BobChronic6505]

Hammerhead isnt soiless PH range 5.5 to 6.5?

 

[Hammerhead]

Hammerhead isnt soiless PH range 5.5 to 6.5?

No, 6.3-6.8...... Use a rang more narrow.. 6.4--6.7.
The biggest issue I see is not doing your own testing.. If I listened to what people say was the right PH for soilless id never have healthy plants. COCO never grows like peat. Every plant I grow is in Promix using ph 6.5.. I have about a thousand pictures you can look at in my media.

As I said take 1 plant and do as I suggested. The prof is in what you see for yourself.

 

[f-e]

The most recent batch of coco tested:
Ca 1963ppm
K 6743
Mg1604
Na 2230

P 136ppm
Ec .51
Ph 6.9
So what's the correction needed?

I don't know the testing method or the coco's journey. I'm not sure we did this at school either. The SAR is high though, and with 2250ppm Na being somewhat higher than the 50ppm recommended for irrigation water, It's certainly due for dispatching. Presuming this is a water extraction after a reasonable flushing. Not a chemical extraction of total salts.

Why do you ask? It's way beyond my achievement level. If it won't flush away then displacement with some form of calcium is next up. Maybe gypsum as sulphates are good cleaners too. But we have the pH to look at, and the carbonate will use up H+ ions. I might think about adding some Nitric to burn off the carbonate. So the hydrogen can stay in solution.

Really not at my level of understanding though, as I said, I'm not even at high school grade. I buy coco ready to use and keep up with the maintenance doses and runoff volumes. Looking at runoff with the help of a lab, as I can't get tissue samples done in the UK. Though it is nice to talk about such things, when the opportunity arises.

 

[jackspratt61]

I don't know the testing method or the coco's journey. I'm not sure we did this at school either. The SAR is high though, and with 2250ppm Na being somewhat higher than the 50ppm recommended for irrigation water, It's certainly due for dispatching. Presuming this is a water extraction after a reasonable flushing. Not a chemical extraction of total salts.

Why do you ask? It's way beyond my achievement level. If it won't flush away then displacement with some form of calcium is next up. Maybe gypsum as sulphates are good cleaners too. But we have the pH to look at, and the carbonate will use up H+ ions. I might think about adding some Nitric to burn off the carbonate. So the hydrogen can stay in solution.

Really not at my level of understanding though, as I said, I'm not even at high school grade. I buy coco ready to use and keep up with the maintenance doses and runoff volumes. Looking at runoff with the help of a lab, as I can't get tissue samples done in the UK. Though it is nice to talk about such things, when the opportunity arises.

This is new coco as delivered. M3 soil test. They ALL come back with similar #s. Super high K,high Na,Mg and practically no P.

 

[f-e]

My mind just snapped back to this, the EC reading shows it's a chemical extraction. My soil lab does M3 I think, but not coco. As coco is a different extraction method.

A poster was talking about the heaps of coco on an American dock. Getting rained through. Like it was part of the process. It stands to reason that the decomposition products will be high after 6? weeks on the boat. The coco is just being washed, out there on the dock. I'm going to guess, based largely on testing, that the P is washing away. While the others are cations, hanging on. Our coco has spent aaaages in large ponds. Giving time for changes in structure. Maybe.. they dump cations in the ponds to help the process. There are a number of players in the game, so there will be no fixed methods. Just a lot of decomposition. All those microbes wanting something to eat. They are a chosen method to release fixed P.

What do you reckon? feasible?

 

[tobedetermined]

This all brings up a valid point. Is there better coco we should be using? Canna claim on the website that they wash their coco in India using only fresh water. With labour costs, they probably package it there as well. I current have Cyco, which is Australian, but I don't know where they process it.

 

[Switcher56]

Switcher56 yes General Hydroponics flora trio, grow micro, bloom.

I checked your photos they look good man. I'm assuming that is in promix? What do u feed?

I tried organic one time and I like the idea of it, which is why I got into using promix to begin with. But I think organic growing is outside of my skill level right now, as I had a hard time with it.

Right now I'd like just to get perfect plants with promix, from beginning to end.

Yup, straight Promix with an extra 25% perlite. I switched to Remo (using at recommended strength) and, as stated I have never looked back.

I am not going to go through all the details here, suffice to say that I have my grows dialed in, for my environment. When I mean dialed in, I mean dialed in. Where:
W = water, D = dry (or let dry) and F = feed. This is a 7 day schedule. W D D F D D W. Growing in 3 gal (more like 5) cloth pots at a rate of 1.5l per watering or feeding days. This is during bloom. I go by pot weight and moisture meter (I water/feed when the needle hits between from moist/dry and will vary as necessary 250ml up or down (on occasion), to have my plants stick to my schedule.

I grow within the parameters of the following VPD schedule..

I use a PAR meter to set my light intensity and, (no you don't need a $1K device) thusly:

• seedlings ~ 60-90 umols;
• clones ~ 100-200 umols;
• veg ~ 300-425 umols; and
• flower ~ 700-1200 umols. Intensity above 900 umols require CO2 augmentation. I have come to find out 850 umols is good for me with my light. Any higher and I start to "light bleach" at the tips.

I monitor closely what I do, take judicious notes and only change/try one thing different per grow. If you try to do too much, you don't have a clue what change caused what. You only get out of it what you are willing to put into it. Your mileage may vary.

ETA: It was the local hydro shop that told me to start with Promix as the easiest medium for a neophyte to start with. A local grower told me about Remo, after I explained my woes I was having with the General Hydroponic/Organic nutes I was using. Like they say the rest is history. Do I have any intention on switching what I am doing. No! Do I seek improvement? Always, but I don't fall for gadgets nor marketing. Dependent on strain I get 0.9/1.2g per watt. More than I need for my medical needs

 

[jackspratt61]

My mind just snapped back to this, the EC reading shows it's a chemical extraction. My soil lab does M3 I think, but not coco. As coco is a different extraction method.

A poster was talking about the heaps of coco on an American dock. Getting rained through. Like it was part of the process. It stands to reason that the decomposition products will be high after 6? weeks on the boat. The coco is just being washed, out there on the dock. I'm going to guess, based largely on testing, that the P is washing away. While the others are cations, hanging on. Our coco has spent aaaages in large ponds. Giving time for changes in structure. Maybe.. they dump cations in the ponds to help the process. There are a number of players in the game, so there will be no fixed methods. Just a lot of decomposition. All those microbes wanting something to eat. They are a chosen method to release fixed P.

What do you reckon? feasible?

If they do M3 simply dry completely at 170 in oven, grind in coffee grinder and send in. All coco that I test is loaded with Na/K. None has enough P.

 

[.............]

This all brings up a valid point. Is there better coco we should be using? Canna claim on the website that they wash their coco in India using only fresh water. With labour costs, they probably package it there as well. I current have Cyco, which is Australian, but I don't know where they process it.

6-6.1pH in coco is where its at with alot of good coco growers these days.

I stick with canna coco, has never let me down. Switching around can be a doozy considering all the work that you do to be undone by bad coco its a wasteful exercise.
I've used generic compressed bricks from home depot (bunnings here in Oz) just to avoid grow shops, when I was younger and could be bothered with all the rinsing. And it wastes alot of water too.
I've used House and garden coco with success. Had bad experience with Hy-gen coco, I think it is pre-buffered too high out of range.
Cyco I have no experience with, but I don't support cyco due to their use of bad PGRs in their nutrients. They are responsible for the 5 minute high tric-less frankenstein hairy distinct buds that are rife here, produced by crime syndicates.