Powdery Mildew - Large scale Greenhouse

[mexcurandero420]

Plants use the chelated metals to form primary biological functions and to create secondary metabolites.

Your understanding of plant physiology is lacking.

There’s a huge difference between calcium glycinate or calcium chloride and say carbaryl or abamectin

Sure there is a difference between those two and i'm not saying that chelated metals is the same as fungicides or pesticides, but what i'm try to tell is that spraying during flowering is not investigated enough when the end product is smoked, counts also for chelated metals.I would not even spray molasses during flowering.Btw only iron and magnesium for more potency could be interesting, but that contains molasses also like fulvic acids.

 

[Mountain Kine]

Sure there is a difference between those two and i'm not saying that chelated metals is the same as fungicides or pesticides, but what i'm try to tell is that spraying during flowering is not investigated enough when the end product is smoked, counts also for chelated metals.I would not even spray molasses during flowering.Btw only iron and magnesium for more potency could be interesting, but that contains molasses also like fulvic acids.

Again your lack of understanding for plant physiology is showing.

There are hundreds of papers on the effects of plants being sprayed with chelated metals.

The plants don’t store the elements they use them for metabolic function.

Through the leaf is like injecting to the blood stream. Through the roots is like digesting through the gut tract.

Dried flower has been tested for its elemental composition and there will always be elements like Ca etc in the flower - it is how they’re formed.

Do some reading, grow better healthier plants...or continue to be sensationalist and don’t - doesn’t matter to me.

Just know your position in this debate is critically flawed

 

[mexcurandero420]

Again your lack of understanding for plant physiology is showing.

There are hundreds of papers on the effects of plants being sprayed with chelated metals.

The plants don’t store the elements they use them for metabolic function.

Through the leaf is like injecting to the blood stream. Through the roots is like digesting through the gut tract.

Dried flower has been tested for its elemental composition and there will always be elements like Ca etc in the flower - it is how they’re formed.

Do some reading, grow better healthier plants...or continue to be sensationalist and don’t - doesn’t matter to me.

Just know your position in this debate is critically flawed

Is the stuff OMRI listed?

 

[Pepé The Grower]

@ Mountain Kine:

I got a fews questions for you. What kind of chelated metals do you spray on your weed exactly?

Have you ever heard about the phytoremediative properties of cannabis?

And last, did you ever notice how often weed/hash contains high levels of nickel/zinc?

 

[Limeygreen]

If you're foliar feeding your crops you're likely missing elements in your soil and if you're not you're just trying to basically push your plants but it's like being fed from both ends, sure you can absorb nutrients through your colon quite well but you're still shoving food up your ass.

Everyone has their own methods but I personally think foliar feeding is not necessary and can be quite stressful on the crop rather than helpful, better to manage soil or or fertility in your nutrient recipe and leave the canopy to photosynthesize.

 

[Mountain Kine]

Is the stuff OMRI listed?

You know there’s zero oversight to get an OMRI listing and that it’s essentially a purchased label?

@ Mountain Kine:

I got a fews questions for you. What kind of chelated metals do you spray on your weed exactly?

Have you ever heard about the phytoremediative properties of cannabis?

And last, did you ever notice how often weed/hash contains high levels of nickel/zinc?

Ca, Mg, Zn, K, Cu, B, P, N chelates are various organic acids

The highest tissue residual is Ca in my experience.

If you're foliar feeding your crops you're likely missing elements in your soil and if you're not you're just trying to basically push your plants but it's like being fed from both ends, sure you can absorb nutrients through your colon quite well but you're still shoving food up your ass.

Everyone has their own methods but I personally think foliar feeding is not necessary and can be quite stressful on the crop rather than helpful, better to manage soil or or fertility in your nutrient recipe and leave the canopy to photosynthesize.

What if one grows In an inert media with zero nutrient content other than what’s irrigated and is looking to push their crop to the highest performance possible? Seems like foliar feeding would be the way to go.

This thread isn’t about that though. It’s about stopping PM.

First you need a balanced formula for that and if it pops up after that peroxyacetic acid knocks it right out and you can test clean using it up to day of harvest.

Lastly - all of you refuting foliar feeding and it’s efficacy and benefits just show your narrow understanding of a plants physiology and metabolism.

Spraying minerals on the leaves increases photosynthesis and co2 consumption which directly drive growth.

Maybe we’re after different things but I want the most return per square foot of canopy of the highest quality product I can grow.

That’s why I have an electrostatic spray rig that costs as much as a used Honda Civic but the science is there to support its use and instead of using 30 gallons to spray 22,000 sq feet we have it down to 5 with the same coverage.

 

[led05]

Ca, Mg, Zn, K, Cu, B, P, N chelates are various organic acids

Do you ever run into too much S using all those sulfate based chelates, I understand plants can take a lot....? Interesting what OMRI allows isn't it.....

I too believe in foliar feeding (all crops, perennials especially) but do cut off at a certain point when flowering cannabis; especially for indoor plants....

In general regarding thread topic: Ca is your friend to ward off many things, including fungal pressures IME and should be a large factor / consideration for a plants health from the time a seed is sown, push Ca out the gates and it keeps things at bay to a certain extent....

I'd also shut up the GH for a few hours mid-day each week, let temps get above 100F and humidity plummets, I'd bet this works as good as any sprays.... In fact I know this to be true

 

[Mountain Kine]

Do you ever run into too much S using all those sulfate based chelates, I understand plants can take a lot....? Interesting what OMRI allows isn't it.....

I too believe in foliar feeding (all crops, perennials especially) but do cut off at a certain point when flowering cannabis; especially for indoor plants....

In general regarding thread topic: Ca is your friend to ward off many things, including fungal pressures IME and should be a large factor / consideration for a plants health from the time a seed is sown, push Ca out the gates and it keeps things at bay to a certain extent....

I'd also shut up the GH for a few hours mid-day each week, let temps get above 100F and humidity plummets, I'd bet this works as good as any sprays.... In fact I know this to be true

I don't know where I said that I am spraying on sulfates but alright.

I am using metals complexed by an organic acid that I will keep under my hat. I also use a glycine chelate of all of those elements as well.

I spray them up until the last week of flower.

Definitely never let the greenhouse get to 100 degrees with plants in it. Between runs for sterilization for sure.

 

[redlaser]

I’ve hit 110 in the Greenhouse no fans going, they were not thrilled in full sun but recovered without losses. 8’x8’ plants in long continuous beds.

Plants will withstand 116-117 degrees in a darkened situation, but losses will begin at 118.
High temp is an effective mite killer, mostly only practical for 3-4foot and under plants due to temp changes in height. 20-30 minutes at 140-155 is all that’s needed. No fans can be used during treatment

Higher temps interrupt pm’s cycle as well, need 6-8 hours of optimal pm temps for it to progress to outbreak

 

[mexcurandero420]

Again your lack of understanding for plant physiology is showing.

There are hundreds of papers on the effects of plants being sprayed with chelated metals.

The plants don’t store the elements they use them for metabolic function.

Through the leaf is like injecting to the blood stream. Through the roots is like digesting through the gut tract.

Dried flower has been tested for its elemental composition and there will always be elements like Ca etc in the flower - it is how they’re formed.

Do some reading, grow better healthier plants...or continue to be sensationalist and don’t - doesn’t matter to me.

Just know your position in this debate is critically flawed

Dude, studied botany in the past, grow for 27 years and use my own organic vegetarian method to grow Cannabis or veggies.Never had an issue with certain metal deficiency since applying lava rock dust.

The use of amino acid based metals is not new in the supplement industry (Albion), but new in horticulture.
Has it been tested for copper or zinc content in the dried buds?

Haven't seen a monograph for Cannabis that it is allowed to spray during flowering.Safety first.

 

[TnTLabs]

Again your lack of understanding for plant physiology is showing.

There are hundreds of papers on the effects of plants being sprayed with chelated metals.

The plants don’t store the elements they use them for metabolic function.

not true....

Phytoremediation Potential of Hemp (Cannabis sativa L.): Identification and Characterization of Heavy Metals Responsive Genes
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281651509_Phytoremediation_Potential_of_Hemp_Cannabis_sativa_L_Identification_and_Characterization_of_Heavy_Metals_Responsive_Genes

The results revealed heavy metals accumulation; Cu (1530mgkg-1), Cd (151mgkg-1), and Ni (123mgkg-1) in hemp plants' leaves collected from the contaminated site. This shows the ability of the hemp plant to tolerate heavy metals, perhaps due to the presence of stress tolerance genes.

and pls don´t say its hemp, not a drug cultivar... there wont be a major difference!

 

[TnTLabs]

back on topic...
the use of horticultural oils together with citric acid is not just a great preventive but also a cure! pair them with essential oils and PM has no chance of establishing

 

[Pepé The Grower]

Ca, Mg, Zn, K, Cu, B, P, N chelates are various organic acids

The highest tissue residual is Ca in my experience.

Thanks.

the highest quality product I can grow.

I spray them up until the last week of flower.

Both things sounds incompatible.

I'm glad i don't smoke your product.I'm sad some peeps have to rely on it.

Some of the conventionnal growing wisdom may not be applied to cannabis if one wants quality. The only other product massively grown to be smoked is tobacco. A wide range of cultural practice approved and applied to tobacco culture just doesnt make sense when it comes to get the cleanest aka best quality for you/your customer product. Like they use 3 times as much more K than the plant is able to use. Makes no sense to harvest a plant loaded with nutes just because it burns better, knowing that K will be in the smoke and probably among a few more byproduct because of combustion.

Let's not cannabis be the cigarette of the 21th century...

 

[Pepé The Grower]

not true....

Phytoremediation Potential of Hemp (Cannabis sativa L.): Identification and Characterization of Heavy Metals Responsive Genes
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281651509_Phytoremediation_Potential_of_Hemp_Cannabis_sativa_L_Identification_and_Characterization_of_Heavy_Metals_Responsive_Genes

The results revealed heavy metals accumulation; Cu (1530mgkg-1), Cd (151mgkg-1), and Ni (123mgkg-1) in hemp plants' leaves collected from the contaminated site. This shows the ability of the hemp plant to tolerate heavy metals, perhaps due to the presence of stress tolerance genes.

and pls don´t say its hemp, not a drug cultivar... there wont be a major difference!

This couldn't be stressed enough!!! Every grower should know about that and take the right step to not slowly poison himself nor his customers!

 

[Mountain Kine]

That's more sensationalism.

Cadmium and Nickel in those concentrations are apparent that there was some type of HAZMAT contamination. I'm sure any crop grown there would show an accumulation of metals.

Not really sure if you realize what you're reading.

 

[Mountain Kine]

Thanks.



Both things sounds incompatible.

I'm glad i don't smoke your product.I'm sad some peeps have to rely on it.

Some of the conventionnal growing wisdom may not be applied to cannabis if one wants quality. The only other product massively grown to be smoked is tobacco. A wide range of cultural practice approved and applied to tobacco culture just doesnt make sense when it comes to get the cleanest aka best quality for you/your customer product. Like they use 3 times as much more K than the plant is able to use. Makes no sense to harvest a plant loaded with nutes just because it burns better, knowing that K will be in the smoke and probably among a few more byproduct because of combustion.

Let's not cannabis be the cigarette of the 21th century...

We make sure there is more Ca than K going in to the plant. Excess Ca is stored as Ca Oxalate in the plant and actually makes for a very smooth smoke.

 

[Mountain Kine]

not true....

Phytoremediation Potential of Hemp (Cannabis sativa L.): Identification and Characterization of Heavy Metals Responsive Genes
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281651509_Phytoremediation_Potential_of_Hemp_Cannabis_sativa_L_Identification_and_Characterization_of_Heavy_Metals_Responsive_Genes

The results revealed heavy metals accumulation; Cu (1530mgkg-1), Cd (151mgkg-1), and Ni (123mgkg-1) in hemp plants' leaves collected from the contaminated site. This shows the ability of the hemp plant to tolerate heavy metals, perhaps due to the presence of stress tolerance genes.

and pls don´t say its hemp, not a drug cultivar... there wont be a major difference!

I also don't think you are taking in to account the level of contamination needed to put 1.53 grams Copper in to 1000 grams dry weight hemp

That is like, 10000x the amounts being sprayed on.

 

[TnTLabs]

Mountain kine, im not having a go at you...
just correcting what i believe is wrong, prove this is not the case, and i will shut up and learn
as to not knowing what im reading, how is this the case, when i show you that it just isnt true what you are stating...
but from what you are saying i can only understand that you are not aware that cannabis is a accumulator of heavy metals, and hemp is being used on a broad scale to decontaminate soils!

you say "The plants don’t store the elements they use them for metabolic function. "
but then you say "The highest tissue residual is Ca in my experience."
Ca is not an element? maybe you mean the micronutrients?? still not correct!
either way maybe you want to rephrase your post?!

 

[TnTLabs]

This couldn't be stressed enough!!! Every grower should know about that and take the right step to not slowly poison himself nor his customers!

yes Pepé, many are not aware of this... from what i remember hearing, many growers in cali for example, have problems with high levels of Aluminium, Copper & sometimes even lead in their soils..
These levels will surely accumulate in concentrates...

https://cannabisindustryjournal.com...y-metals-testing-methods-strategies-sampling/

and as i thought, the tests arent really done that well..

"The four heavy metals tested in the cannabis industry are lead, arsenic, mercury and cadmium"
wtf... missing out on Aluminium & Copper for sure

ohh and by the way Mountain Kine

"Heavy metals are common environmental contaminants resulting from human industrial activities such as mining operations, industrial waste, automotive emissions, coal fired power plants and farm/house hold water run-off. They affect the water and soil, and become concentrated in plants"

 

[Mountain Kine]

Copper also key to keeping PM and other fungal disease off plants - maybe ones aversion to the right amount is why one experiences PM etc.,

Yes there must be some ca cu etc in the tissue what do you think the cannabis is made up of? What you guys are talking about is the bioaccumulation when grown at toxic waste site levels, I’m talking about using agronomically correct amounts to drive plant growth.

Your argument against foliar spraying using phytoaccumulation as a counterpoint con is a red herring - the amounts used for foliar feeding are nowhere near what soil levels of what industrial toxic waste sites are so it’s moot.