PLEASE HELP! Losing my mind over here.

[TedNugget]

Hello all, I need help. Ok here's the problem -
Tiny little seeds EVERY TIME! (EDIT - Pics of the problem on page 3)

I was having problems with female flowers throwing those little yellow hermaphrodite bananas. This was going on for a while. I kept checking for light leaks and eventually found a tiny one. So I took care of that and I haven't really seen any hermie flowers since (a few here or there, but I think it was just the strain. But none in months and months now).
So, I assumed the non-viable hermie pollen was causing my tiny seed problems.

So that was at least 6 months ago. But I am still finding these tiny little seeds in the calyxs and in the dried buds.
I mean, literally as soon as the first calyx forms, it has a tiny little seed in it.

I only have a few plants total in the room. They all look perfect. Super frosty. Not stressed out at all. I can't find a hermie flower anywhere on any of them (and I inspected them all very closely). I didn't see any of the white hairs die back early (a sure sign they've been hit with pollen). Yet I am still finding those tiny little seeds... Even when every single hair on the plant is still perfect and white.



This has been a problem for a while now. I have tried a number of different strains from a number of different breeders. I always order the regular seeds (not feminized). I just don't get it. Where are these seeds tiny seeds coming from? How are they even forming when all the pistils on the plant are still white and alive? I thought the pistil has to be hit by pollen, shrivel back and form a seed...? Most of the strains do seem to have some common lineage - OG or Chem somewhere in the breeding history.

I just Need to get this figured out. Besides the tiny little seeds, the quality is top notch. When I show the dried buds to people, nobody even notices except me, but it still bugs me to no end.
There will be these small shriveled green looking seeds through out the buds (they look like tiny shriveled peas). They won't come out of the bud either. A lot of times the only way I know they are in there is because there are these hard pieces when I break up the bud.
Or I get these tiny little white seeds in the calyxs. Most are no bigger than the eye of a needle.
Now my one new strain has these tiny black grains in it. They look like a grain of ground pepper.

When I grew years ago, I don't remember ever really having this problem. There were never any of these tiny seeds.
I honestly don't understand what is going on or why/how it keeps happening. Please help! I'm at wits end here...

 

[waveguide]

i don't know anything about your grow, the scale, anything. if you've locked down the possibles like bananas, evil neighbors, homeboy putting pollen on your clothes so washing hands et c. before handling plants,

i've kept males and females in close quarters for years and don't really freak out about pollen exposure the way some people do. my advice is, mist your plants. even with a hand sprayer when you see them. maybe your activity is stirring something up you've overlooked? water should reduce the amount of viable pollen, wherever it's coming from.

 

[Phaeton]

I like sativa. For many years I exclusively grew sativa and most of them did exactly what you are describing. Tiny sterile seeds.
Mine would slowly grow larger and I would harvest by week eight at the latest because of the growing seed load.
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/P/Photoperiodism.html
Between the two articles above and below
http://plantphys.info/plant_physiology/photoperiodism.shtml
The second site has full color charts and is easier to read.

I came up with a plan to extend the day and still bud the plants using 730 nm far red LEDs to simulate twilight.
First off was using the far red with 12/12 to establish a baseline to match the extended light against.

Serendipity: finding one thing while looking for another.

The buds coming off the harvests with the far red added did not have the seeds I was used to seeing.
Five harvests were run with two strains known to make seeds and neither came up seedy.
At first that is, when the plant was removed from the budroom for harvest it began producing those little seeds immediately. With the arthritis it takes a full week to trim a plant and the seeds are visible by day three and an annoyance by day five.
I am happy the seeds are not forming the whole time and have no idea why this happened under the far red supplement.

With only two strains out of the thousands available tested this is by no means a guarantee but it sure is a good indication.

I put up with seeds in my sativa from August 1999 until July 2015 but no longer.
At least I hope not, I have finally gotten around to 13.5/10.5 and if the seeds come back I will know this is causing stress.

A 13 watt bulb will treat one plant and costs $60 USD plus a separate timer to run it. Depends on how annoying the seeds are whether or not this is a good buy.

 

[VenturaHwy]

If none of the seeds are mature it is just the plant. My Kandy would do that, not really what you would call a seed, maybe a pre-seed real tiny. If you had a hermie plant it would form a seed, so it's not a hermie.

 

[TedNugget]

Thank you to all 3 of you! I appreciate you taking the time to help.

Yeah, they are definitely NOT full seeds. They do not keep growing in size no matter how long I give them.

Phaeton - I will give that light a try. I'm willing to try anything at this point!

So basically it sounds like it is just the strains I have grown...?

It makes sense that it is just the breed/strain, especially since I haven't been seeing the white pistils die back. (although even when I seen the yellow hermie flowers and the pistils die back, I still didn't get viable seeds. It was basically similar small non viable seeds).

So I guess I just have to continue searching for strains that do not have this trait?

If anyone has a strain suggestion, please share it. I don't care much about super potency. I just want something tasty that doesn't have this damn tiny seed trait! That's it. That's all I want. lol
Im So sick of it negatively affecting the way it smokes. I just want ONE damn batch without these seeds!

 

[waveguide]

mouser carries far red (740nm iirc) leds if you want to build.

good luck finding a new strain! i recommend whatever's inexpensive

 

[I wood]

Yup, some sativa leaning hybrids do that.
It is no reason to dump the strain of you like it otherwise.
Haze x chronic is one that has been doing that in my garden so long I stopped worrying about it, no one ever mentioned it and the only time I notice is when making oil, lots of tiny floating seeds.
Tiny seeds do not keep it from being my go to strain for buds or oil.

 

[TedNugget]

Yeah I wood, nobody mentions it to me either.
But I notice it. I won't be happy until I fix this problem.
My main gripe is that those half seeds have a negative effect on the taste. One hit will taste great and the next hit will taste harsh and leave a not so nice taste in my mouth.
I have no choice but to keep some of the strains that are doing it right now (until I find one that doesn't).

I've been ordering a lot of the newer strains. Maybe that's my problem? Maybe I need to try some of the old classics.

It's really disheartening that so many strains seem to have that trait. I never had this problem years ago. Once in a great while I'd have a plant do that back then. Now it seems like they are all doing it.
I thought it was something I was doing wrong and I was totally out of ideas as to what I was messing up...

 

[expealadocious]

If its happening to several different genetics then... it would surely seem like operator error....
Stress, from any one of a number or sources could cause that to be reoccurring for everything you're doing.
could be something you're not seeing in the soil like fungus gnats or something. Check your roots...
Look for other stresses like consistent high temp, red lights at night from power strips or anything in general that is continually upsetting the ladies.
How are your yields?

Also, a good idea is to scrub your room of existing pollen in the walls

 

[Xray Kimono]

What strains are you running? I recommend choosing strains based on breeder. Get a good breeder and find what wares he has that are available fresh but still have been around long enough to have a good track record.

Karma
BOG
Bodhi
Franchise
Relentless

^^^good breeders

Yeah I wood, nobody mentions it to me either.
But I notice it. I won't be happy until I fix this problem.
My main gripe is that those half seeds have a negative effect on the taste. One hit will taste great and the next hit will taste harsh and leave a not so nice taste in my mouth.
I have no choice but to keep some of the strains that are doing it right now (until I find one that doesn't).

I've been ordering a lot of the newer strains. Maybe that's my problem? Maybe I need to try some of the old classics.

It's really disheartening that so many strains seem to have that trait. I never had this problem years ago. Once in a great while I'd have a plant do that back then. Now it seems like they are all doing it.
I thought it was something I was doing wrong and I was totally out of ideas as to what I was messing up...

 

[mufinman]

do you have any 'devices' (humidifier, dehuey, plug strips, fans that have those little red light switches and digital numbers, in close proximity to the girls?

happened to me.

 

[TedNugget]

Mufinman - Yes I have equipment in the room with a little light on top. But I have made sure that I covered the glowing light. I have it like triple covered - electrical tape, more electrical tape and a 2 layers of black plastic over that.
Plus, I've spent quite a bit of time in the room when dark to search for light leaks. I've gone in at all different times, thinking maybe there was a light leak only at a certain time of day. I have the room double wrapped in black/white poly plastic to make extra sure no light gets in.
That was the reason I was getting herms in the beginning - I had a tiny light leak on the dehum. Since I fixed that over 6 months ago, I haven't had any herm flowers but I am still getting the tiny seeds.

X-ray - I've grown the top 3 on that list. Only one strain from bog (sour lifesaver) and karma (brotherhood og). I plan on doing more from both of them. I've done a good 4 or 5 from bodhi. They are all very potent and very nice looking. But all have had those tiny seeds in the calyx. The sour lifesaver had tiny little hermie flowers, and I have read others had the same problem with that strain. I plan to try some different strains from BOG because I know,people have had great luck with some of his strains.
One or two of bodhi's had little yellow hermie flowers (and I have talked to others that had herm issues with some of bodhi's stuff too), but most from bodhi did not have any issues with hermies, yet I'd still find those tiny seeds in the calyx.
No issue with hermie from brotherhood OG from karma, but again, still had the tiny seeds.
I also haven't grown out the entire pack of seeds from any yet either. I only did a few of each, so maybe I just need to continue searching through the pack to find a better pheno.
BTW - I am pretty sure I have read about a number of people having hermie issues with Franchise genetics. Maybe I am mistaken. But I thought I read on here about some people having herm issues with some of his gear...

Expealadocious - my temps stay right around 77. My yields are good. And like I said above, I have those glowing lights covered up.
I don't know what I'd be doing to stress them out. I don't over feed (usually feed-water-water or feed-water-water-water). I make sure they are watered every day or every other day (depending on how quickly they dry out). There is very good air flow. The humidity stays a constant 40-45.
I haven't had fungus gnats in quite a while. I sprinkle diatomaceous earth or gnat-nix (it's like sharp stone/glass) on top of the soil and I switched over to the cloth pots so the gnats can't enter the soil thru the bottom drain holes and I haven't seen gnats since.
I use beneficial bacteria & mycorrhizae so the root growth is amazing. I can hardly stick my finger into the soil because the roots grow so thick.

I would actually be thrilled to find out it was something I was causing! Because then it could be easily corrected. I just have no clue what I would be doing wrong...

I did have male plants in a separate room going back almost 2 years ago. But I sprayed the entire room down with water a couple of times. Is there any way there is just pollen still in the air?
But like I said, I am getting these tiny seeds even when the pistils are perfectly white and alive. I know what it looks like when the pistils get hit with pollen. You will see them die back over a few days time. That hasn't happened and I'm still finding these tiny half seeds...

 

[Al Botross]

Pollen in the open doesnt last more than a couple of days. Maybe one of your nutes has a hormone or simulator? IDK

 

[TedNugget]

I thought about that. I'm using organic nutes, and I don't know of any hormones in them.. Using GH general organics or Nectar for the gods.
Thanks for the pollen answer. I figured there was no way it was still a problem.

Holy cow - I just googled "tiny seeds in bud" and I am definitely Not alone in this! Lots of people with grade a bud with tiny seeds in it.
One guy said that every strain he buys from the dispensary has this problem.
I think part of it is nobody seems to notice these tiny seeds. Unless you are really looking for them you don't see them. They are that tiny...

I am starting to wonder if I will ever get this figured out.

 

[TedNugget]

Hey, anyone who is willing, please do me a favor - next time you're near your plants, pick off a few calyx's and check to see if there is tiny white or green seeds. If there is No seed at all, please tell me what strain it is from what breeder (so I can try ordering it).
I want to know of a strain that definitely does NOT do this, so I can try it and see if it is my user error creating this problem or if it is just the genetics I have grown so far.
(if you are growing a strain that is not available for purchase then don't bother since I obviously couldn't purchase it anyway).

 

[TedNugget]

Ok, so today I was checking on a brotherhood OG 2 weeks into flower. I picked a calyx growing underneath the bud. It still had those 2 white hairs growing out of it (they were still alive and white). But, sure enough there was a tiny green seed in there already.
This has to just be a trait of this plant, huh? Nothing else makes sense with the white pistils still alive and growing out of the calyx. It obviously wasn't pollinated, right?


Then on another plant (a gorilla glue X long bottom leaf) nearing finish I picked off a tiny piece of a big bud. I pinched off a small piece of the bud that was fox-tailing just a bit and once again there were 2 more tiny green seeds. Now I've been checking this plant constantly for any hermie bananas and I haven't found any. How does it have these tiny seeds in the bud?
None of the white hairs died back early. It's almost 9 weeks in and the white hairs are finally just starting to turn a bit orange.
Is it possible for there to be hermie flowers literally inside of the buds (where they couldn't possibly be seen)? I feel like I'm grasping at straws to figure this out.
What else can I do to try and solve this?

Also, can anyone please recommend a strain that Definitely 100% sure doesn't do this? One that doesn't grow those tiny seeds in the calyxs (or in the bud for that matter).
I need to know if it's something I'm doing, or something with these strains.

I just don't get how a seed can form without any signs of pollination...

 

[RoyalStone]

I had Jack the Ripper for about 4 runs, keep in mind I had it for 4 runs just to see what I was doing wrong! She was extremely frosty, but never really swelled up to a decent size and gave me at least 10 seeds each run. Sometimes it's just the genetics man. If I liked the smoke better, i still would've kept her but the cons were outweighing the pros.

Right now I'm running Barney's Farm Critical Kush(OG dominant pheno), BCBD Hash Plant and a SSH x Blueberry, not a single bean on anything! My buddy had a mold issue with the Hash Plant but everything is great on my end, I think he didn't have proper ventilation in his room. I highly recommend the Critical Kush

 

[RoyalStone]

I forgot to add that final run of JTR was FULL BLOWN SEEDED, in a tent with 2 CK and they were completely fine so I know for sure it was not a pollination issue with her

 

[mufinman]

I forgot to add that final run of JTR was FULL BLOWN SEEDED, in a tent with 2 CK and they were completely fine so I know for sure it was not a pollination issue with her

I dono but there had to be pollen.

 

[whiteberrieS]

Calyxes have ovules in em, left unpollinated they degrade, if they're pollinated they grow seed if the pollen's fertile, infertile pollen just hardens up the ovule and gives ya the snap-crackle-pops. Had this problem for a while too, fem beans + overfertilization will do it every time.

What nutes are you using?