Please breeders we still want regular seeds too...
- Thread starter funkpew
- Start date
But right on and take care
Y
YosemiteSam
Would you have a recommendation on a good book for a guy who does not necessarily want to breed but would like to understand what everyone is talking about. And I R literate so it does not have to be too simplified
Would you have a recommendation on a good book for a guy who does not necessarily want to breed but would like to understand what everyone is talking about. And I R literate so it does not have to be too simplified
Cannabis Botany - by Robert C Clark....................You can download it for free .By downloading utorrent program ,then download the book as a torrent .It comes with a whole bunch of other mj books as well ,in the same torrent....
If I had to choose just one book to recommend it would probably be Bos and Caligari's "Selection Methods in Plant Breeding". In this book we will learn about different breeding techniques, their advantages, their downfalls and much much more. Digest this book and you will be back giving folk like me whatfor good n plenty. I applaud you Sam for desiring a deeper understanding of the subject matter. -Respect
http://books.google.com/books/about/Selection_Methods_in_Plant_Breeding.html?id=x_K3QmPAiGEC
http://books.google.com/books/about/Selection_Methods_in_Plant_Breeding.html?id=x_K3QmPAiGEC
Bosca's Cultivation of Hemp is good to understand some of the methods used to create cannabis in the field.Would you have a recommendation on a good book for a guy who does not necessarily want to breed but would like to understand what everyone is talking about. And I R literate so it does not have to be too simplified
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_ath...h-alias=books&ie=UTF8&field-author=Ivan Bocsa
E
elmanito
In the hemp industry a lot of monoecious varieties are used nowadays, but those varieties are artificial.Iván Bócsa said in an interview that when you let Mother Nature do their thing after 2-3 generations you'll have dioecious varieties.
This will also happen with feminized varieties.
Someone else did put this pic on another forum
Namaste
This will also happen with feminized varieties.
Someone else did put this pic on another forum
Namaste
Altough there is some amazing info and strong opinions in this thread, what about the business side of the subject? Releasing fem only is very profitable for seeds companies, is not only about a breeding method...
Peace
=K
SativaKeith
Member
I don't breed and i still hate fem's seeds. Never again.
i personally find feminized seeds, to be an invention designed for people in too much damn hurry.
i would not buy.
its like running clones only, no seedbackup. one single illness or pestproblem, could then wipe out my entire genetic stock. forcing me to buy again and there is no sure chance of being able to get the same stock again.
plus this kills variety.
yeah, i would say feminized is tailormade for the "business man in a hurry".
this is not for any serious grower.
i would not buy.
its like running clones only, no seedbackup. one single illness or pestproblem, could then wipe out my entire genetic stock. forcing me to buy again and there is no sure chance of being able to get the same stock again.
plus this kills variety.
yeah, i would say feminized is tailormade for the "business man in a hurry".
this is not for any serious grower.
I've been testing a few methods out over the last few years and i've not found any problems in breeding fem seeds,i've got aload of S1 trainwreck being tested at the mo which used somas rodelization method and have had good results so far with only a few plants out of about 100 odd seeds put out the odd banana, no full blown hermi's so i'd call that a sucsessfull outcome,but i don't plan on releasing them at the mo as i only made a few hundered.
Don't some "breeders" sell only fems because they have no other parents than a few elite cuts which are all females? If they want to sell regular seeds they need a real male, but the hype doesn't need males, it only needs catchy names to cross, like OG Kush x Cheese.
plastochron
Member
What other methods of inducing nanners have you tried (please go relay any detail you can recall, e.g. ppms, source of chemical, etc)? How do they compare in terms of effectiveness and ease with Soma's rodelization method?
Y
YosemiteSam
and there lies the real problem...not the fem seeds themselves...but the lazy ass pollen chuckers who do not check their work or go on to stabilize it in any way.
Adze
Member
Here are two quotes from Tom Hill regarding fem seeds:
"Sprinkl the only thing plants born from forced reversals are more prone to do is produce more female plants than male/female matings. All other writings and assumptions regarding them that I have ever seen have never once been accompanied by anything even remotely resembling a decent argument, let alone a science-based one. There is nothing whatsoever inherently bad about using these plants for breeding.
Plants born from unforced reversals (intersex plants) are a different matter.-T"
"There are several misconceptions regarding breeding by way of reversals.
Here are a few:
That the lot being female is the entirety of the techniques worth. This is the lamest imo, it's but a single side effect of this very powerful breeding tool.
That it is somehow a replacement for asexual reproduction/clones/identical reproduction. Nothing could be further from the truth, recombination still occurs with this technique.
That it eliminates the ability of the customer or other breeders to continue breeding with the stock. Ridiculous, it does no such thing.
That it narrows the gene pool. Nonsense, as stated earlier that is a product of numbers, not technique.
That it somehow increases the rate of intersex individuals within a population. This is nothing more than fear mongering with zero science behind it.
I could go on all day for the amount of bullshit that has piled up on this subject is deep as hell. On the one hand we have folks badmouthing the practice as a hack as anybody can do it. In the same sentence these same folks are crying about being unable to figure out how to proceed from there. It's all ridiculous and warrants zero sympathy."
I have great respect for Tom's knowledge and insight. I am a new guy but I'd say this settles the issue in my mind.
"Sprinkl the only thing plants born from forced reversals are more prone to do is produce more female plants than male/female matings. All other writings and assumptions regarding them that I have ever seen have never once been accompanied by anything even remotely resembling a decent argument, let alone a science-based one. There is nothing whatsoever inherently bad about using these plants for breeding.
Plants born from unforced reversals (intersex plants) are a different matter.-T"
"There are several misconceptions regarding breeding by way of reversals.
Here are a few:
That the lot being female is the entirety of the techniques worth. This is the lamest imo, it's but a single side effect of this very powerful breeding tool.
That it is somehow a replacement for asexual reproduction/clones/identical reproduction. Nothing could be further from the truth, recombination still occurs with this technique.
That it eliminates the ability of the customer or other breeders to continue breeding with the stock. Ridiculous, it does no such thing.
That it narrows the gene pool. Nonsense, as stated earlier that is a product of numbers, not technique.
That it somehow increases the rate of intersex individuals within a population. This is nothing more than fear mongering with zero science behind it.
I could go on all day for the amount of bullshit that has piled up on this subject is deep as hell. On the one hand we have folks badmouthing the practice as a hack as anybody can do it. In the same sentence these same folks are crying about being unable to figure out how to proceed from there. It's all ridiculous and warrants zero sympathy."
I have great respect for Tom's knowledge and insight. I am a new guy but I'd say this settles the issue in my mind.
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I have nothing against feminized seeds but do have a few questions about them. How do you improve an inbred line by feminization? How is a feminized hybred cross better than a male hybred cross? other than all females? does a quick female shorten the flowering period of a longer flowering female when crossed? Does feminization improve the chances of finding something unique in the progeny? Is there a strain that is improving over multiple generations of feminizing?
Yes let's discuss it further. First let's just drop the term feminization as it places too much importance on this one small side effect of what reversals bring to the table. In fact screw feminized seeds haha. What reversals bring to the table is that we can now utilize much more efficient techniques than previously with male female matings. Instead of half-sib family selection now we can utilize the pedigree method, or S1 progeny selection. It truly is a massive step forward on all counts. If you are a numbers guy, then surely you can grasp that our odds of success increase with selections among 100 outstanding females in comparison to 50 outstanding females coupled with 50 males that in comparison we know jack shit about as far as our pipe/scale/etc is concerned. This basic principle is true whether we are improving a line or creating a hybrid. As both a grower and a breeder I am a space/numbers monger, and I want to fill that space with things I can evaluate with my pipe, or scale, or etc. -T
T
THE PABLOS
Yes.
whatsupdoc
Member
Now you're teaching. Much appreciated, as it takes awhile to get through my thick skull!
Tom, do you have a good source for a naming convention so to speak.
There obviously needs to be some sort of definition setup.
As of right now things are lucky to be labeled as an S1, would we want to know even more like what generation that s1 was made from.
Lets just say I made an f1 cross, and took a selected female and selfed that, that is an f1s1? but almost technically the same as an f2 in terms of inbreeding?
There obviously needs to be some sort of definition setup.
As of right now things are lucky to be labeled as an S1, would we want to know even more like what generation that s1 was made from.
Lets just say I made an f1 cross, and took a selected female and selfed that, that is an f1s1? but almost technically the same as an f2 in terms of inbreeding?
