W
Whatever
Interesting observation.NOKUY said:
Pit Bull VS. Wolf (not my idea)
- Thread starter NOKUY
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I took ALL the mutts to the river today. Probably the last 80 degree day all day here, so we swam all day. Water was decently high too, so nature's 'endless pool' wore them out. Nice old people in a pickup with a poodle stopped to say hi and what sweeties pits are. Can't argue with the fact that pits are pussies when it comes to sub 50 degree nights though. They look so pathetic shiverin away, while I'm in a t-shirt, lol.
Maybe some pits could kill wolves, maybe not. I don't care either. I had an AWESOME day with the dogs.
Maybe some pits could kill wolves, maybe not. I don't care either. I had an AWESOME day with the dogs.
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I am still surprised that so many ppls think the pitt is the ultimate figting dog. It is not.
In the last couple of years they have been importing game pitts to russia and centralasia and they dont cut it against the local dogs or many other imported figting dogs. The major reason is size. Weight and height.
A brit mentioned his staffy. Its the original pitt. Brought to the states by british and irish miners in mid 1700. As with everiything else in the us it had to be bigger, hence the Amstaff and pitt. If you talk to the old guys they will tell you a 100 lb pitt is an aberration. 50 lb is max for a pitt fighter. The APBT and Amstaff grew in size when the started doing normal dog jobs for the farmer and became a working dog aswll as a figting one. If its much bigger than 50 lb it has other dogs genes in the mix. On open land size matter and they simply wont cut it.
The staff was bred for bullbaiting and then later found capable of dogfigting mostly because it would give the spectator a blody and intense fight often for hours and to the death, which is very unnatural for dogs and humans alike.
The irish developed this dog into a real dogfighting dog called the irish staffordshire bull terrier which is taller and somewhat slimmer than the original. Height is important when figthing other dogs as is weight unless they are in a pitt where speed and movement is god.
You can find loads of pages written by russians and centralasians about their dogfigting. This shit is big business over there and they spend fortunes getting the best dogs from all over the world figthing for them. Assholes.
There is an agency in Moscow, owned by a Whore that exists only to provide the right dogs to the wrong people for the worst purpose.
The danish Broholmer soceity has warnings on their pages against this woman since she has tried very hard to get some Broholmers for fighting.
I have a normal pitt. My friend a blue bigboned one and another a texas rednose so I know the breed and love it, but I not imbecile enough to think it will beat a bigger motivated dog on open land. In a pitt its different size is an impediment and no longer the big advantage but a liability.
In the book and film mentioned, when nature calls or what ever, the wolf is beaten by a pitt because it was in a pitt.
Pitt fighting is not natural, which is why the specially pitt bred dog will prevail in there.
On open land or in a big pitt its another ballgame.
Fun thing by the way. The balkan champ of dogfighting for a long time was a particualry strong Labrador. The uzbeki talk of a unbeatable great dane and some extremely big german shepards and rottweilers that were remakeble.
Most sum up their conclusions with the pitts, that they are psychos and they get killed by the numbers because they don't know how to quit even when obviously overpowered. The funny thing are that they are disgusted with the extreme gameness the pitts display because its complete and utterly unnatural in dogs to behave that way. Killing a submitted opponent when he has submitted. They usually keep the dog and retire it when it has had its first loss, as it loses the supreme confidence neccasary to be in the game. They actually care for their dogs which I doubt ppl that enjoy seeing their dogs comitting an uneccesary suicide do.
I myself is also disgusted with breeding such a quality in a race. In UFC you dont need to see the the KO'ëd guy get strangled or stomped in the head to death when he has lost clearly already. Why do you praise this quality in a pitt. I dont fucking get it.
By the way, the early Colt's that bred some real badass pitts, probably the worst, once said that they would at most get 30% figthers in a litter from two extremely game parents. So even in pitts, its the natural dog way thats the prevailing one.
Thank the god I think is a fantasy for that.
In the last couple of years they have been importing game pitts to russia and centralasia and they dont cut it against the local dogs or many other imported figting dogs. The major reason is size. Weight and height.
A brit mentioned his staffy. Its the original pitt. Brought to the states by british and irish miners in mid 1700. As with everiything else in the us it had to be bigger, hence the Amstaff and pitt. If you talk to the old guys they will tell you a 100 lb pitt is an aberration. 50 lb is max for a pitt fighter. The APBT and Amstaff grew in size when the started doing normal dog jobs for the farmer and became a working dog aswll as a figting one. If its much bigger than 50 lb it has other dogs genes in the mix. On open land size matter and they simply wont cut it.
The staff was bred for bullbaiting and then later found capable of dogfigting mostly because it would give the spectator a blody and intense fight often for hours and to the death, which is very unnatural for dogs and humans alike.
The irish developed this dog into a real dogfighting dog called the irish staffordshire bull terrier which is taller and somewhat slimmer than the original. Height is important when figthing other dogs as is weight unless they are in a pitt where speed and movement is god.
You can find loads of pages written by russians and centralasians about their dogfigting. This shit is big business over there and they spend fortunes getting the best dogs from all over the world figthing for them. Assholes.
There is an agency in Moscow, owned by a Whore that exists only to provide the right dogs to the wrong people for the worst purpose.
The danish Broholmer soceity has warnings on their pages against this woman since she has tried very hard to get some Broholmers for fighting.
I have a normal pitt. My friend a blue bigboned one and another a texas rednose so I know the breed and love it, but I not imbecile enough to think it will beat a bigger motivated dog on open land. In a pitt its different size is an impediment and no longer the big advantage but a liability.
In the book and film mentioned, when nature calls or what ever, the wolf is beaten by a pitt because it was in a pitt.
Pitt fighting is not natural, which is why the specially pitt bred dog will prevail in there.
On open land or in a big pitt its another ballgame.
Fun thing by the way. The balkan champ of dogfighting for a long time was a particualry strong Labrador. The uzbeki talk of a unbeatable great dane and some extremely big german shepards and rottweilers that were remakeble.
Most sum up their conclusions with the pitts, that they are psychos and they get killed by the numbers because they don't know how to quit even when obviously overpowered. The funny thing are that they are disgusted with the extreme gameness the pitts display because its complete and utterly unnatural in dogs to behave that way. Killing a submitted opponent when he has submitted. They usually keep the dog and retire it when it has had its first loss, as it loses the supreme confidence neccasary to be in the game. They actually care for their dogs which I doubt ppl that enjoy seeing their dogs comitting an uneccesary suicide do.
I myself is also disgusted with breeding such a quality in a race. In UFC you dont need to see the the KO'ëd guy get strangled or stomped in the head to death when he has lost clearly already. Why do you praise this quality in a pitt. I dont fucking get it.
By the way, the early Colt's that bred some real badass pitts, probably the worst, once said that they would at most get 30% figthers in a litter from two extremely game parents. So even in pitts, its the natural dog way thats the prevailing one.
Thank the god I think is a fantasy for that.
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satyr said:
yeah, maybe he has to run a bit before catching the wolf.
No - Because the bigger the dog, the smaller space they fight in, the harder manauvering gets for the big one. In actual fact the forward momentum of the bigger dog often lets it crash into the walls of the pitt leaving it momentarily vulnrable to the quicker and more manuevrable dog. If it gets a lock has a locking bite and stamina enough it will eventually wear the bigger one down. Some small pitts has the head and bite of big dogs, but the body of midget.
But without the wall the big dog want have a crash that neutralizes its momentum and leaves it defenseless.
This is not my personal deductions, but knowledge going back for hundreds of years. Pitts are specialist dogs, bred for the pitt.
The pitt would keep attacking in vain on open land. If the wolf protected cubbs then I am sure it would wear the dog down over many hours draining the pitt mentally and physically. Thats how they kill big prey, just like dogs do in africa.
But without the wall the big dog want have a crash that neutralizes its momentum and leaves it defenseless.
This is not my personal deductions, but knowledge going back for hundreds of years. Pitts are specialist dogs, bred for the pitt.
The pitt would keep attacking in vain on open land. If the wolf protected cubbs then I am sure it would wear the dog down over many hours draining the pitt mentally and physically. Thats how they kill big prey, just like dogs do in africa.
gramsci.antonio said:
you never saw a dogo jogging with his master at the park, don't you?
As i said before, i've seen one single dogo cubano neutralize a bull in an open field...
As i said before, i've seen one single dogo cubano neutralize a bull in an open field...
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I belive that....but it didn't kill it ? Did it bring it down ?
Usually bull dogs dont kill bulls, ppl belived it tenderized the meat. A rhodesian ridgebach or liondog dont kill lions alone at least as irish wolfhounds dont kill them alone either. Those pakistani pitt bull "Bull Terr" comes form the original english stock that fathered the APBT. They fight bears thats chained and often without teeth. Disgusting shit.
By the way a dogo argentino or canario ? I think the spainards call their figthing dogs for Presa and the normal ones dogo. Like the APBT and the Amstaff.
Usually bull dogs dont kill bulls, ppl belived it tenderized the meat. A rhodesian ridgebach or liondog dont kill lions alone at least as irish wolfhounds dont kill them alone either. Those pakistani pitt bull "Bull Terr" comes form the original english stock that fathered the APBT. They fight bears thats chained and often without teeth. Disgusting shit.
By the way a dogo argentino or canario ? I think the spainards call their figthing dogs for Presa and the normal ones dogo. Like the APBT and the Amstaff.
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rawheineman
Member
just been watching the lion man on tv ,,they were showing wolves ,,in my eyes a pitbull would easily take a wolf
TaxiBoy
Member
satyr said:
personally, i do not believe that you really know as much about pitbulls and the APBT as you think. all dogmen, as well as most people who are just amateur fanciers of bully breeds, know that it's a MYTH that they have so-called "locking jaws". scientifically, no such biological mechanism exists in these breeds, or any other known to man for that matter. bullies simply have TREMENDOUSLY strong NORMAL jaw muscles, coupled with gameness. the world would be a better place if these stories about bullies were no longer perpetuated.
hyperion04
New member
I think a wolf would kill a pit bull... I absolutely love pits and I've owned a few in my lifetime. I just think a pit would be underclassed fighting a wild wolf.
I personally think of "true dogfighting" as a sport like boxing... Both dogs WANT to fight. True dogfights were never "to the death" as so often depicted in today's media. Sometimes dogs did die after the fight from shock and other complications, but many a dogfight has been stopped when a dog established that it was "dead game". Many dogs winning the fight refuse to "scratch" because the tenacity of the game dog is just too much.
As much as I love and respect the pit bull, I would never want to see one die, whether by another pit, by a wolf, nor by the hands of the asshole trainers or asshole ASPCA, etc... Too much bullshit has been spouted by the media and accepted as belief by today's society. Just my two cents.
hype
I personally think of "true dogfighting" as a sport like boxing... Both dogs WANT to fight. True dogfights were never "to the death" as so often depicted in today's media. Sometimes dogs did die after the fight from shock and other complications, but many a dogfight has been stopped when a dog established that it was "dead game". Many dogs winning the fight refuse to "scratch" because the tenacity of the game dog is just too much.
As much as I love and respect the pit bull, I would never want to see one die, whether by another pit, by a wolf, nor by the hands of the asshole trainers or asshole ASPCA, etc... Too much bullshit has been spouted by the media and accepted as belief by today's society. Just my two cents.
hype
reefa cheefa
Member
i say the wolf depends on the wolf but most wolves will win.
SemperAltus
Active member
wolf for sure.
FRANKENBLUNT420
me blunt is like, wicked yo!! owight
there is no comparing the tactics/skills of an animal that has to live day to day on its own wit and cunning to one that is trained and gets its meals handed to them. the skills are different, the sizes are different and the day to day interactions are different. one you can give a command to and it will stop/go, what wolf does anyone know of that stopsgoes on command, ESPECIALLY a wild one?
and some people have mentioned averages, but i am gonna go with those who have mentioned their own experiences of seeing/interacting with a wolf and how really large they are in the wild.
and from what ive read about wolves and have seen in documentaries/ national geographic, and the like, wolves are by no measure on the average 100+ lbs, they weigh twice as much, cause unlike the domesticated, they have to store up for winter and things of that nature.
and dogs are pack animals aswell!! so an opinion based on a wolf being in pack has nothing to do with anything.
i am not a pet person at all by no measure and thats a fight i would pay and want to see personally
and some people have mentioned averages, but i am gonna go with those who have mentioned their own experiences of seeing/interacting with a wolf and how really large they are in the wild.
and from what ive read about wolves and have seen in documentaries/ national geographic, and the like, wolves are by no measure on the average 100+ lbs, they weigh twice as much, cause unlike the domesticated, they have to store up for winter and things of that nature.
and dogs are pack animals aswell!! so an opinion based on a wolf being in pack has nothing to do with anything.
i am not a pet person at all by no measure and thats a fight i would pay and want to see personally
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FlyinHawaiian
Member
after abit of thinking i voted the APBT.
kalimist99
Member
the pitbull!!,like noted in earlier posts pits fight till death no matter how beatup they are. WHY do you think ppl fight pits instead of wolfs? the wolf will flee once he knows hes in trouble. how the hell is the wolf winning on the poll u guys r dumb!
hyperion04
New member
kalimist99 said:
You really show your maturity level by calling people dumb who state their opinions (much like yourself), mate... Just because the general consensus doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're dumb... Not sure what can be said about you, though. I'll end my post here before it gets too crass...
hype
satyr said:
Wrong again. They use gamebred pits all over the world becasue it's an organized fight on weight, and the gamedog is the undisputed lb for lb champ of the k9 warriors in the real world. Yes, sometimes the dog that is loosing wins if the winning dog quits and doesn't scratch. The rules are made to NOT make the dogs fight to death and reward gameness, anyone who knows anything about gamedogs and their history and development of "cajun rules" knows this. Reading books about fighting dogs history and hearing rumor internet bs about other breeds is not real world fact. The fact is if there is a contract match where weght is predetermined(like boxing and most combat soprts) whether it be Russia, USA to Japan, the dog will be an APBT. There is a reson for that and it's not your theory.
The last couple of years they have been importing pitts to Russia, REALLY? Last time I checked there was American gamedog stock in Russia decades ago. They are very involved in the gamedogs and what kind of dogs do you think they use for professional fights in Russia? These are pros with contracts on weight and such and big money, not mountain people with giant currs in fileds. Some really like the Frisco dogs over there and have had big tournament conventions for decades, importing dogs from Morfin, Boudroux, Garner, Patrick, Carver, Boyles and many oldtimers back in the day. Ever heard of Ablizin? he's been around for very long. He even sells videos of his best stock from conventions and rolls. These are the big leagues with big money contracts, they don't use labs and rotts, or organize fights in open fileds, they rent out stadiums and arenas and match dogs on weight like the rest of the world. http://www.ablizinspitdogs.com/
You are disgusted by pits being game but you own one? That's whats made them the most versatile and badaas K9 in human history. From Hellen Kellers seeing eye dog, to the most decorated US army dog in history Sergeant Stubby, the Little Rascals dog Petey who is one of the smartest Tv dogs of all time while being a son of the great pit dog and producer Tudor's Black Jack. The gameness and human bond is what makes them unlike other K9's. I'm talking about the real gamedogs, not those Texas Rednose or blue curr imposters that don't deserve to be called APBT's and have ruined the breed by not culling human aggression, the biggest problem and cause for demonization today. IGNORANT OWNERS WHO WOULDN"T KNOW A REAL PIT IF IT BIT THEM IN THE CULO IS THE DOWNALL OF THE GREATEST BREED.
Honey Badgers are known to be this game naturally; hippos sometimes fight to the death and alfa lions as well from other challenging male lions. The cajun rules are intended to determine the gameness of the animal without fighting until death. They take turns scratching until one refuses or a handler picks up his valuable dog and may run a courtesy scratch. If at any time a dog jumps out, fails to reach the other dog in 10 seconds, or bites a human, it looses. The whole fighting to death is a media fantasy that unfortunately has become a self fulfilled prophecy by ignorant petbull owners.
Gamedog owners and breeders care just as much about their dogs, you don't have to fight them to appreciate the breed and realize they are magical creatures superior to other K9's in MANY aspects. The whole, "they are crazy and unnatural" is bs. They are different and believe it or not they are not forced to fight(althought I'm sure you know this) or trained to be vicious. They are simply put into shape like a marathon runner or an endurance athlete. The fighting part comes naturally, in their genes. But they are not killing machines without feelings or judgment. They are all different from their personalities, intelligence, to their fighting styles. Some gamedogs have played and slept with cats and currs but know when it’s showtime in the pit a la Petey.
American Gamedogs are very popular in many Eastern European countries like Croatia and the former Yugoslavia, ever heard of YU-Arena and the Balkan Boys? They're probably one of the best known European Gamedog publications and kennel, being around for very long. http://www.yuarena.co.yu/balkanboys/ Some of the best APBT's are in Eastern Europe, Mexico, Korea, Greece, Japan since the laws are more tolerant or even legal like in Japan and Korea where the fights are held in public squares with vets in each corner but no gambling is allowed.
The gamebred APBT is pound for pound the undisputed K9 warrior while at the same time being the most noble with humans with the highest pain tolerance through selective breeding. A real gamedog is no good for prtection and guard dog work, they are simply genetically to noble with humans. A big gamebred catchweight pit like Big John, Mayday, Alligator etc will destroy any other K9 up to about 120lbs if not bigger. And if Cajun rules are applied where the dogs are rewarded for gameness and endurance the APBT will most likely prevail. Ask the Tosa folks from Japan what happens when they go longer than 15 minutes and reward gameness by scratching?
Size , Weight and Height? Professional Gamedogs fight on weight, being weighed right before a match and if one dog is over he may forfeight some of his bet like boxing, or be allowed to try and work the weight of for a couple of hours. So size doesn't matter since they fight to the same ounce, that's why you see the different sizes and shapes. That's why some gamedog lines looke more stocky like Staffies a la Mexican Eli dogs(Cardenas), Clemmons or Bullyson while others are longer and rangy with longer muzzles, even looking like skinny mutts. You have little 25lb Patrick Bolio dogs or big 70lb catweight red eye Alligator and loose skin floppy hound ear GRCH Yellow dogs. The point being size and looks don't matter, since they fight on weight and performance is the main factor, not looks and pretty peds like most imposter pits today.
Of course a 200lb Caucasian Ovcharka or similar K9 will probably kill a 30lb gamedog and have a harder bite, its head is bigger than the whole pit and they are used to hunt wolves and such. But when those Turks, Armenians, Russians, Mongolians and mountain hearders with these kinds of dogs decided to start fighting they're dogs for fun and bets, how do you think they made them better and created a fighting strain of the breed? They bred them with gamedogs and made a superior fighting short haired version. Same with Mastiffs made into Bandogs and Tosas in Japan which were quickly injected with catweight pit blood since they were getting their butts whoopped by smaller superior gamedogs, even with their own rules. So now the Tosas are a lot better with more abilty and gameness and somewhat smaller, if you can't beat them breed with them.
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the wolf would win without a doubt. the ferocity of pitbulls is a myth, they are dangerous dogs because their jaws are prone to locking together and not being able to open back up, so if the dog bites you and its jaws get locked as it is biting you, you will have a real hard time getting that dog to open his mouth back up...
I had to break a stick on the back of my dog and kick my dog real hard to make her let go of a pitbull. my dog is not a pure breed dog either, my sister rescued her from the streets, she looks like a labrador more or less. the pitbull was taken to the vet to get stiches and what-not... my dog only had a cut in her forehead and lost a tooth hehehe... the pitbull had to take meds like anti-biotics and get wounds cleaned and cure for several days to follow. btw, my dog is not trained to fight or anything of the sort... she is adorable.
Paz
I had to break a stick on the back of my dog and kick my dog real hard to make her let go of a pitbull. my dog is not a pure breed dog either, my sister rescued her from the streets, she looks like a labrador more or less. the pitbull was taken to the vet to get stiches and what-not... my dog only had a cut in her forehead and lost a tooth hehehe... the pitbull had to take meds like anti-biotics and get wounds cleaned and cure for several days to follow. btw, my dog is not trained to fight or anything of the sort... she is adorable.
Paz
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