Phylos Galaxy - Landrace discussion

[therevverend]

I don't agree. As i have writen many times, phylos doesn't seem to be updating the table on the "genotype reports" of many samples =Phylos isn't not connecting to other samples as it's supposed to and as it did earlier.

I see, you're talking about the sample's page that comes up after you select it from the Universe. It hasn't listed the strain's relatives in a while it annoys the hell out of me.
I thought everyone was talking about the Galaxy screen, when you choose find relatives and go back there from the sample page. There's a bunch of lines that shoot all over the place that you're suppose to follow to find the related strains. Unless this is messed up too, I haven't checked because it's too hard to navigate and see where the lines go.
That is why I agreed with Frost Queen about having the option to make everything vanish from the Galaxy except related and distantly related strains.
Snow Queen I sympathize with you must be frustrating to have sent in samples. I've seen other cannabis websites that use a similar Galaxy system with much better results.
I think the main problem when applied to the Phylos Galaxy is that it is much too big. Probably much bigger then the original programmer understood it to be. Cannabis is a universe filled with thousands of galaxies.
A tree seems much better except the trunk would be difficult. Over time I think it would get resolved. I wouldn't mind an old fashioned data base you could flip through.
I was excited when I heard about this project it's been disappointing so far although I've gleaned quite a bit of useful information regardless. Someone with a background in cannabis genetics and computers needs to come in and get it done right.

 

[Thcvhunter]

There's an important glitch in the Matrix which needs to be addressed:
Colombian and Mexi and Affy all result as being related to Skunk, instead of the other way around.

What we are seeing with Phylos is a client-centric(Sam and Clarke) peseudo-science.

How much money do the business entities of Sam, Clarke, Chimera, and Phylos stand to make - and protect - by establishing that most all cannabis around the world is related to their patent-awaiting strains?

 

[Stickybred420]

its hard to say if we will get any definitive answers from phylos. one problem may be, and im sure its not the whole, but could be a part. is the fact that arjan spread fems to so many landrace reigons that now the whole pool could be jumbled up and we can never find the patient zero plants anymore. random stoner thought. idk.

 

[Betterhaff]

what’s the control? Wasn’t it a kush or something?

 

[Elmer Bud]

There's an important glitch in the Matrix which needs to be addressed:
Colombian and Mexi and Affy all result as being related to Skunk, instead of the other way around.

What we are seeing with Phylos is a client-centric(Sam and Clarke) peseudo-science.

How much money do the business entities of Sam, Clarke, Chimera, and Phylos stand to make - and protect - by establishing that most all cannabis around the world is related to their patent-awaiting strains?

G `day T

I think its meant to prove the opposite .
ie Unique genetics not in the public domain . That have had sufficient ownership time and documentation to qualify to be patented .

Anything on Phylos will be public domain and not available to be patented ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[GoatCheese]

I see, you're talking about the sample's page that comes up after you select it from the Universe. It hasn't listed the strain's relatives in a while it annoys the hell out of me.
I thought everyone was talking about the Galaxy screen, when you choose find relatives and go back there from the sample page. There's a bunch of lines that shoot all over the place that you're suppose to follow to find the related strains. Unless this is messed up too,

Hey
I think the platform change has affected also the "galaxy" with the colored dots, cause it also shows the sample-relatives with thin white lines as you know ...or should anyways and it doesn't seem to work very well either. The thin white lines appear on some samples but not on all of them, just like it is with the "related-table" on the genotype reports as i explained in my last post.

Personally i use the search-engine quite abit to look for certain genetics i'm interested in, and when the Phylos was still working properly i used to surf the sample library by clicking on the relative-strains of a particular sample to see where it all goes.

I'm more interested in the traditional/landrace genetics and how they are related to each other, rather than looking what's in modern hybrids.

 

[Water-]

There's an important glitch in the Matrix which needs to be addressed:
Colombian and Mexi and Affy all result as being related to Skunk, instead of the other way around.

What we are seeing with Phylos is a client-centric(Sam and Clarke) peseudo-science.

How much money do the business entities of Sam, Clarke, Chimera, and Phylos stand to make - and protect - by establishing that most all cannabis around the world is related to their patent-awaiting strains?

your conspiracy has been shot down so many times, why not just give it up?

 

[beta]

There's an important glitch in the Matrix which needs to be addressed:
Colombian and Mexi and Affy all result as being related to Skunk, instead of the other way around.

What we are seeing with Phylos is a client-centric(Sam and Clarke) peseudo-science.

How much money do the business entities of Sam, Clarke, Chimera, and Phylos stand to make - and protect - by establishing that most all cannabis around the world is related to their patent-awaiting strains?

Evidence or GTFO.

It makes perfect sense that the strains these guys hold are related to a lot of modern cultivars, considering they were instrumental in the early propagation of genetics that enabled modern cannabis.

 

[Thcvhunter]

I'll stay right here.
Its nice being American and Free.

 

[CannaZen]

It would be great if we actually could track descent, Phylos links relations via genetic similarity right?

 

[GoatCheese]

Here's some evidence to back up my claim that Phylos hasn't been working right for some months

Here's a X18 sample from DNA
Here's how the relatives-table for this X18 looked like in August 2017:

But today there's not even a table for this sample. This is the first one i've seen that doesn't even have the blank table on it, only a text "No relatives found". Usually there's a blank relatives circle-table with only the name of the sample in the center but nothing else

 

[ngakpa]

How many pure first-generation 'drug' landraces are represented on the Phylos system?

In the absence of a substantial representation of first-generation drug landrace genetics, how can it be useful?

 

[Nexus7]

How many pure first-generation 'drug' landraces are represented on the Phylos system?

In the absence of a substantial representation of first-generation drug landrace genetics, how can it be useful?

I'm not sure what you mean by first generation but 1975 Thai Stick and 1980 Colombian Gold cluster are clearly defined in my opinion. I also feel I see the Colombian Red/Mangobiche/Pelo Naranja/Punto Rojo/top Panama Red branch of genetics is defined and a general Africa cluster is there too.

Based on phylos I have learnt 1980 Colombian Gold has thai stick ancestry. Oldtimers Haze essentially is the same as 1980 Colombian Gold. NYC haze(Piff) has the A5 cut or Hash Plant Haze as one of it's parents. Oaxaca 79 appears to be the parent of Sams Afghan#1/Skunk#1 but not the parent of his other two skunk submissions. Interesting to say the least!

Plenty more info has been gained to so if you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

 

[ngakpa]

I'm not sure what you mean by first generation

First-generation landrace isn't clear?

I'm struggling with how this can be made clearer...


Take the example of a Chitrali landrace:

1. RSC Chitrali landrace in its original 2015 accession, namely seeds collected directly at source in Chitral (or Mriko's seeds from Yarkhun even)

2. ACE/CBG Pakistan Chitrali Kush, a selectively bred 'landrace', bred for numerous generations in Spain etc.

(let's assume that the ACE/CBG hasn't been crossed with any modern hybrids)


this is about the difference between a first-generation landrace obtained directly at source in Chitral, and a 'landrace' that that may have originated from Chitrali landrace seeds but that has been selectively bred in Spain or wherever for numerous generations

There are fundamental differences, and they are there in the DNA

The original accession of a pure landrace like the strain mriko or I collected from Yarkhun in Chitral is a very different thing from what you have in a breed such as the ACE/CBG Pakistan Chitral Kush

a pure landrace has a very broad genetic base, whereas the Pakistan Chitral Kush has had generations of inbreeding, making it much narrower and much closer to a registered cultivar


'First-generation' landrace =

A landrace represented by the original accessions from their native region of landrace seeds or plants thereof

as opposed to subsequent generations that have been reproduced outside the original environment of the landrace, most likely through selective breeding



The significance is that any reproductions of landraces outside their native region (currently, due to pracitcal and legal restrictions) necessarily involve massive narrowing of the genetic base and very likely involve contamination:

how useful can this database be if the landraces are represented by 'landraces' that are numerous generations removed from their original populations, or even just a few generations, with limited populations of plants, various artificial and natural selective pressures, and the strong likelihood of contamination with other cultigens?


Another separate point: afaik, to be truly representative, the material submitted for analysis should be from reasonably new seeds




for Phylos in its current state, imo the absence of truly representative landraces is a major issue. If I was involved with Phylos, I'd want the system to be founded on authentic first-generation drug landraces.



I don't want to seem like I'm disparaging the potential of this system, but in its current form it's surely of limited value

how much value can you put on this when the ostensible 'landraces' are fundamentally cultigens that have been selectively bred in the West in some cases for as mmuch as four decades.... and that's even assuming no contamination with other cultigens?

add to that, the same old perils of typological thinking that have created so much confusion in cannabis already are pretty clear in how the data is being interpreted by growers

As things stand, I think people are reading way too much into this given the inadequate basis of the data

p.s. you could make the same point about Mel Frank's 'landrace' Afghan No. 1, which iirc originates from six seeds sent from Kabul in 1979 vs. first-generation landrace seeds direct from Afghanistan etc.

none of this is intended to disparage Afghani No.1 or Pakistan Chitral Kush, it's about their value as representative landraces in a genetics-based system

 

[troutman]

I think Phylos is more about tracking genetics and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Mustafunk]

I think Phylos is more about tracking genetics and I'll leave it at that.

Sure man... funny when Mowgli joined another forum and was addressed a few sensitive questions on Phylos he just dissapeared.

There is an interesting quote at this intervew on this video. I got to say I totally agree and people should stop and analize this as well:

1:22:00-1:23:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4969&v=EqvPOFWiWCI
[YOUTUBEIF]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4969&v=EqvPOFWiWCI[/YOUTUBEIF]

People just don't realize they are controbuting with Phylos while they are conviced they are doing something good for the community and Phylos is selling us that they are actually helping the community as well. I say BS.

Hortapharm/Dave Watson is the name behind all the samples from the galaxy that we all donated, but actually Hortapharm didn't provide any sample themselves either from their own genetic collection or even their own hybrids like Skunk, Haze and so on to be characterised and examined by all us. I wonder why?

That along with the fact that most of the data from Phylos Galaxy is subjective and can't be taken too seriously makes all this a whole waste of time IMO. 2-3 years have passed and still nothing useful came from all this. Just providing data and contributing to Phylos bussiness without even realizing.

And, by the way, I was the first one who bited the DNA Project bait, being misleaded and even provided with samples in the past.
But if it's the case I definitely regret to have contributed to this, since I actually didn't learn anything new or that I didn't know already.

 

[Illuminate]

Does ol sam own those now?

 

[CosmicGiggle]

1:22:00-1:23:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4969&v=EqvPOFWiWCI
[YOUTUBEIF]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4969&v=EqvPOFWiWCI[/YOUTUBEIF]

link doesn't work

 

[Water-]

All I can hear, I me mine
I me mine, I me mine
Even those tears, I me mine
I me mine, I me mine
No-one's frightened of playing it
Everyone's saying it
Flowing more freely than wine
All through the day I me mine

 

[OldCoolSativa]

George Harrison...the thinking man's Beatle.