Phylos Bioscience sparks outrage after announcing their beginning their own breeding

[izzypog]

Gypsy,
I do like IC better than any other Cannabis forum, there are way more good people then nutjobs, but the nutjobs are turbo posters that ignore any facts that do not agree with their world view.
I am also a dissenting voice in many Cannabis issues, but I do read their views and try and correct any that need correction to be truthful. In general I like IC and will continue to post here.

I am getting older, 70, and try to stick to helping others, and having fun. When people (post #58) accuse me of stealing the SSSC varieties or as I think he meant the Sacred Seeds varieties, it is hard, to say the least. There was only one grower breeder behind Sacred Seeds, the same guy who made up the name Sacred Seeds in 1975, and bred the varieties, or reproduced a few I was given to reproduce and sell, me.

Some people are funny in that they want to believe the worst of others even after they understand the accusations were false, be it me or others like Phylos. Phylos could not steal any genetics or varieties unless maybe you sent them live seeds or living clones, I never advised that, just common sense. They only got DNA info from all of the samples I sent them.

You know me and that is the difference, I never put $ above what was good for Cannabis, that is why I sold great seeds for .10 each, not $10 each. All of the folks that say bad shit about me have never worked with me, if they had they would know I would not do such crap. My love for Cannabis has been the guiding light for my life, but some people do not care about the truth, they prefer repeating lies made up by others, they just do not know better.

-SamS

I grow for the same reason, it is not for pageantry, or prestige, it is just the enjoyment. Sadly, people judge without knowing facts, or become militant about cannabis itself. I enjoy growing, and, of course smoking, growing is new to me, smoking is an old friend that I enjoy a visit from daily. Thank you Sam, and to the other pioneers that have worked to produce the very best, and something that we all enjoy.

 

[Dog Star]

Yep.. am a nutjob and dont belive you much..

am remembering also in previous years bursts of your ego in many many situations,
also your sorrow to not capitalizing on seed buiss like some did with genetics you shared
or selled to them.. it looks to me now that you wash yourself of any resposibilty
and act Mother Theresa of Cannabis..

Am didnt experience you those way,specialy when i experienced your hermi Ancestral Skunks that you sell a ton here at BR.. but like i say am nutjob so you can ignore all critics that goes from mine side..

 

[Weird]

sadly it isn't so cut and dry as there is truth to all perspectives but it would seem certain "personality" types don't have empathetic capacity

I have called out the mindset many times before for the same reason stated below

https://psychcentral.com/news/2019/...-requiring-too-much-mental-effort/144831.html

Many See Empathy as Requiring Too Much Mental Effort

at my age (50+) I have a hard time with those who only take ownership of what fulfills their own perceptive fancy.



in my mind's eye it speaks of either developmental difficulties or complete apathy neither of which I am a huge fan of personally



but but but money

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I will as you are amongst the worst, I have no sorrow for not capitalizing on the Seed Biz, I started the worlds first Cannabis seed Biz and accomplished my goals to spread Cannabis genetics world wide, my goal was never to maximize profits, I let others do that if it was their goal.
I did not personally retail my old Skunk #1 as the germ rate was max 25% and I had never sold seeds with such a low germ rate, I did let others sell them but I sold them much cheaper then my normal .10 cents a pop. And I did warn that they had low germination. I also heard they had quite a few intersex, that said I got may PM's about great plants found in those seeds. People liked them even if you did not.
We see the same glass, you see it half empty, I see it half full.
I was asked over and over to offer these so I did, not for the $, as that was not important to me.
I am sorry you did not find what you wanted in the old Skunk #1 seeds, but others did and they thanked me. When I grew the Old Skunk # 1 seeds then, I did not get any intersex, I grew 100. So 50 females. I had earlier sold the old Skunk #1 for many years and did not get intersex complaints, I sold them for 1-2 cents each by the KG.
I sold less than 1 KG, to BR that is not very many for me and I did it to try and help others, regardless of what you think.
I do not care what Nutjobs have to say, they change like the blowing wind.
What does my old Skunk have to do with Phylos? I thought that was the thread?
-SamS

Yep.. am a nutjob and dont belive you much..

am remembering also in previous years bursts of your ego in many many situations,
also your sorrow to not capitalizing on seed buiss like some did with genetics you shared
or selled to them.. it looks to me now that you wash yourself of any resposibilty
and act Mother Theresa of Cannabis..

Am didnt experience you those way,specialy when i experienced your hermi Ancestral Skunks that you sell a ton here at BR.. but like i say am nutjob so you can ignore all critics that goes from mine side..

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Ix

 

[Dog Star]

I will as you are amongst the worst, I have no sorrow for not capitalizing on the Seed Biz, I started the worlds first Cannabis seed Biz and accomplished my goals to spread Cannabis genetics world wide, my goal was never to maximize profits, I let others do that if it was their goal.
I did not personally retail my old Skunk #1 as the germ rate was max 25% and I had never sold seeds with such a low germ rate, I did let others sell them but I sold them much cheaper then my normal .10 cents a pop. And I did warn that they had low germination. I also heard they had quite a few intersex, that said I got may PM's about great plants found in those seeds. People liked them even if you did not.
We see the same glass, you see it half empty, I see it half full.
I was asked over and over to offer these so I did, not for the $, as that was not important to me.
I am sorry you did not find what you wanted in the old Skunk #1 seeds, but others did and they thanked me. When I grew the Old Skunk # 1 seeds then, I did not get any intersex, I grew 100. So 50 females. I had earlier sold the old Skunk #1 for many years and did not get intersex complaints, I sold them for 1-2 cents each by the KG.
I sold less than 1 KG, to BR that is not very many for me and I did it to try and help others, regardless of what you think.
I do not care what Nutjobs have to say, they change like the blowing wind.
What does my old Skunk have to do with Phylos? I thought that was the thread?
-SamS

Thats cause you use hermi genetics so progeny goes hermi...

people sees good things,you can call them they are nutjobs,you can twist truth but after this Phylos episode you are one that looks
like a nutjob,together with Mowgli and all those rats that
circulate and cheering for Phylos..

community was sees what you did and we sees a presentation
of Phylos what they think to do with all that genetic data
that is collected..


now you come whithouth a shame.. like nothing happends,nothing to sees here,am dindu nofin...


Really you are a piece of work Sam...


Have a great life there..

 

[Chimera]

Open Cannabis Project to Dissolve

"We also feel we have been deceived. As a result, no matter what we do as an organization going forward, Open Cannabis Project will never escape this deception."

The Open Cannabis Project will formally dissolve at the end of May, Schechter says.



https://www.wweek.com/news/business...-company-phylos-biosciences-breeding-program/

 

[Chimera]

@Dog Star

You really are wrong on this one, like waaaaaay off the mark.

You only look foolish by continuing your misplaced rant. You have written utter nonsense in this thread and others, yet somehow you think you are correct, accurate, righteous.... trust me. You aren't. Time to either recalibrate, or get a bigger tinfoil hat.

 

[Weird]

It is hard to have empathy with folks saying flat out lies, be it I am DEA or I stole all the Sacred Seeds stock, it is just crapola, period.
As are the stories that Phylos has stolen everyone's varieties.
But maybe you know better?

-SamS

No it is not fair, reasonable or even acceptable.

That doesn't mean your words (and lack thereof at times) don't carry great weight.

My contention has never been with your past but rather the weight of a big picture perspective on the minds of small perspective growers which seemed counter intuitive to humanities realtionship (and experiential reality) with the plant

I don't believe it to be a matter of intent but rather byproduct of imprint of being you and working from that perspective to fulfill your own goals. It seems to be a common dynamic for anyone who has a depth of knowledge and focus on one topic over a term but not a character flaw that should be a metric of judgement let alone a reason to attack your person outside of that context.

And lest us not all forget consequence does not imply intent so to imply nefarious purpose doesn't mean it exists so while I might play the play the role of pissed off hippy pretty well but not I try not to be that way at the expense of the humanity I am trying to preserve the protagonist of which I try not to let myself forget is part of that said humanity


but this is the price for fame fair or otherwise

 

[Dog Star]

Am didnt cooperate with Mowgli Holmes... but i sees i will be guilty for what
happends with Phylos.. ;D LOL

You also give yourself too much credits Chimera.. calling people tin foil hat wearers..

while you was hold BR that sells lot of hermi Ancestral Skunks#1..


Is that a praxis that anyone can expect from a breeders of your and Sam caliber,
like we are first,we are pioneers so we have rule of advance to trick you up..


Boys after what happend lately you will need to calm your ego,people will
explain you in nice way,you will feel on your sellings how they respect you
in future...


Have a great year you canna pioneers.. but dont tell us what we need to think..
you dont have right to do these...

 

[GatorGumbo]

Wow, what a bunch of conspiracy nuts.....
(...)
If they did all the DNA testing to somehow gain an unfair advantage, they should not of, they could of told the truth and I would have still helped them, as long as I only sent extracted DNA.
(...)
This thread is like a red flag being waved in front of an angry bull, just blind anger, no thought.

There are so many falsehoods posted in this thread I will not even try to repond to them all, in a twisted way it is almost humorous when I read what people say happened in my case, just rumors and twisted lies in most cases. And you wonder why I don't post more on IC, or as one said that is further proof they are correct? What a joke....

-SamS

I'm gonna lead off with the fact that I respect the fuck out of your work, Sam. I think you made some shit friends, though.

Seems we both agree they were wrong to mislead the community on their overarching intentions, and to a severe degree even though they're not literally cloning genetics at this point. They have lied once, and you think the tin foil hats are crazy to never trust them again, which seems like you're sticking up for them, to be honest.

Let's also remember that these tinfoil hats spent the last four years telling everyone that Phylos will show its true colours in time, and now appears to be that time. Tinfoil hats that have been a constant counterpoint to your own agenda with Phylos...

You have a ton of explaining to do for your own good my friend. There are people here who are not lunatics, and they have serious valid concerns over what has been, and what is, happening with Phylos.

Much respect, no offence intended.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

x

 

[Gry]

Thank you for what you choose to share, Blessings and best of wishes

 

[GatorGumbo]

Thanks for the clarification, Sam. I really appreciate that you draw lines within the reality of the situation, and of course I admit there are a few opinions out there that have taken this off the deep end a bit. Some folks have been downright presumptive and rude towards you, and that's not right in any case. You're a much more patient man than I am. I just meant to underline that more than a few rational folks who have been using their imaginations so far have been almost right on the money all the same.

 

[shaggyballs]

Sam were you being deliberately naive here??

Sam were you being deliberately naive here??

No offence,
The tin foil hats are screaming that Phylos stole their varieties, that is just a shit lie, maybe Phylos misled people I can not say for sure if they planned from the beginning or decided mid journey they had to do plant breeding to make a profit. They can not steal anyones variety from a sex test or a DNA smear it is just not possible.

What are you doing with the samples that were sent directly to you?
I still am and will try other ways to reach the same goals.
I am not doing this for a profit, I am doing this to understand where Cannabis came from and how it spread world wide, $ has zero to do with it, I am retired.
-SamS

This guy was right on target.
But got banned, stange how that happened.

This is the big problem. Someone gets something for nothing. Patents, Breeder's rights, IP etc. Information gleaned from this project goes directly into a small group of peoples hands for the possibility of long-term future profiteering. Now some may say these people are legends of Cannabis game and they deserve this because of all the hardwork they put in already. Yes they have done a lot for Cannabis today and we have to thank them for that. But do they deserve the possibility of monopolizing the industry for future generations? I think not.

Furthermore as Tom Hill also mentions when you extract and store the DNA you have in your hands the genetic material of 1000s of plants to use how you see fit for further genetic analysis and even gene cloning (to make your own GM super cannabis) and for gene therapy via plasmid vectors etc. This is all readily doable with today's technology even if it may not have been done before.

Sams response:
WTF??? Big problem??? I get no patents, breeders rights. IP etc. Information gleaned will be shared, and no plants grown or regenerated, if they even can be I will not do it.

This guy knew what was up from the start:
I think your missing the point or being deliberately naive. One extracts the DNA. It gets stored for eternity. It gets sequenced and analyzed. Novel genes are discovered. The novel genes get "cloned" (and usually patented) and stored in a DNA library. Unfortunately this is the basic blueprint for the majority of genetic "research". Since the genes encode the functional products of the plant you have the capability of reproducing any desirable traits in another plant (via plasmid vector) bypassing the need to regenerate via cellular proliferation.

The level of clueless-ness about you and your post is pretty amazing to me. Maybe if you took the time to spend the three years at a Tertiary education institution and obtain a degree in Molecular Genetics you'd understand the potential SS and RCC have in their hands.

Patent law has ruined the world we live in today. Greedy individuals and corporations continue to bleed to working class dry on the backs of patents for generations and perpetuate a poverty cycle for many. I am wholly against anyone having any patents for anything at all and that includes breeder's rights.

Yes I did read the opening post and most of the thread. If your so naive to believe that everyone does everything they say they are going to do and that people don't lie or deceive others when it suits them or they have something to gain I'm not going to waste my time talking to you ...

Should we really believe you were really surprised by all of this?
You of all people should have the inside scoop.

 

[Chimera]

The novel genes get "cloned" (and usually patented) and stored in a DNA library.

Totally fabricated and untrue, since the Myriad Genetics ruling gene patents are a no go - you can’t patent existing sequences found in nature.

Just one of many technically incorrect things you have written above. You are speaking on topics you clearly do not understand Shaggy

 

[shaggyballs]

Totally fabricated and untrue, since the Myriad Genetics ruling gene patents are a no go - you can’t patent existing sequences found in nature.
But you can modify/marker breed those genetics until they are different enough and then patent those correct?
Just one of many technically incorrect things you have written above. You are speaking on topics you clearly do not understand Shaggy

I agree that is why I wish to talk about it.
SpaceBros. would have been a better candidate to have an educated discussion with you on this subject.
He seems an even tempered gent, strange he was banned, any idea of his infractrion?

 

[GatorGumbo]

From what I understand, it is possible to create entire specimens from plant cell samples, though not strictly just DNA. It has been for a while now, granted there are certain plants more ideal and advantageous biologically and ontologically speaking. For instance, in the case of Silene Stenophylla (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silene_stenophylla), which has been resurrected from frozen dead tissue that was almost 32,000 years old. It's not too unreasonable to expect even 1000 year old properly preserved cannabis tissue to be exploitable more easily, but I do not know.

Can Phylos currently do this? I heartily doubt it. I doubt that it's actually easy at all for anyone to do at this time. That said, it's certainly on the horizon for cannabis sooner or later. There's no harm in pushing the science or being industrious, but breaking good faith agreements with your contributors to do so is not fair. People contributed their hard work and heirlooms with a stipulation, and they were betrayed because Phylos wants more. I can excuse some people for being weary as fuck of them now, people who don't care what Phylos will give to them because they don't want more, they just want to do their own thing and be content with knowledge. They're not willing to invite malicious businesses and rhetoric onto the field just to find out what strain their dear ol grandad was really growing all this time, because it has been proven time and time again that it's not a good idea in the end.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

x

 

[shaggyballs]

Thanks for responding sam!
That was not directed at you or Chimera just a general question.
Why was your response to the statement SpaceBros. so evasive and naive when he seemed to be right on target calling this phylos scam out before it started.

I would like to hear you response on this topic.
Here it is for again for reference.

This is the big problem. Someone gets something for nothing. Patents, Breeder's rights, IP etc. Information gleaned from this project goes directly into a small group of peoples hands for the possibility of long-term future profiteering. Now some may say these people are legends of Cannabis game and they deserve this because of all the hardwork they put in already. Yes they have done a lot for Cannabis today and we have to thank them for that. But do they deserve the possibility of monopolizing the industry for future generations? I think not.

Furthermore as Tom Hill also mentions when you extract and store the DNA you have in your hands the genetic material of 1000s of plants to use how you see fit for further genetic analysis and even gene cloning (to make your own GM super cannabis) and for gene therapy via plasmid vectors etc. This is all readily doable with today's technology even if it may not have been done before.

Sams response:
WTF??? Big problem??? I get no patents, breeders rights. IP etc. Information gleaned will be shared, and no plants grown or regenerated, if they even can be I will not do it.

This guy knew what was up from the start:
I think your missing the point or being deliberately naive. One extracts the DNA. It gets stored for eternity. It gets sequenced and analyzed. Novel genes are discovered. The novel genes get "cloned" (and usually patented) and stored in a DNA library. Unfortunately this is the basic blueprint for the majority of genetic "research". Since the genes encode the functional products of the plant you have the capability of reproducing any desirable traits in another plant (via plasmid vector) bypassing the need to regenerate via cellular proliferation.

The level of clueless-ness about you and your post is pretty amazing to me. Maybe if you took the time to spend the three years at a Tertiary education institution and obtain a degree in Molecular Genetics you'd understand the potential SS and RCC have in their hands.

Patent law has ruined the world we live in today. Greedy individuals and corporations continue to bleed to working class dry on the backs of patents for generations and perpetuate a poverty cycle for many. I am wholly against anyone having any patents for anything at all and that includes breeder's rights.

Yes I did read the opening post and most of the thread. If your so naive to believe that everyone does everything they say they are going to do and that people don't lie or deceive others when it suits them or they have something to gain I'm not going to waste my time talking to you ...

Should we really believe you were really surprised by all of this?
You of all people should have the inside scoop.