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passive plant killer

I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
d9,

Gonna flip the girls.

They rebounded from abuse almost instantaneously.

Dropped the lights down.

Tomorrow, I have a little bit of light proofing to take care of... then here we go.

Yeah man... this cut is bushy. Did you ever check out my failure thread? There's a couple of pics where the side branching is a plant in and of itself.

Serenity: I saw you're moving to the blumats. That was the direction I was headed in before I found this thread. I think blumats are solid... but if you're willing to go with a pulse feed (or run shallower troughs), I think there is more uniform moisture in the PPK = no salt build up (if you believe D9, I guess) = a general state of awesomeness.

Set and forget is something though, for real. If you've been following my asinine interruptions of D9's "Oh, damn, another pound" thread, you'll see that I've been running absurd grow conditions.

As a final thought, did you notice D9's experience with nutes post DF (i.e he had to tone 'em down)?
 
InducedSerenity

InducedSerenity

Member
IF,

I installed the blumats in the other half of my flower box, and I tweaked them a bit more today. I am certainly open to other methods, particularly ones which are more time and effort-efficient, but I'm thrilled with the blumats in coco for now. I think that if I had used more stable nutes than FloraNova, it's possible I'd still be running DWC. But, I set up my Flora series res 4 days ago and it hasn't budged, so I'm as happy as can be. It takes me as long to fill a week's worth of nutes as a daily pH / EC check and adjustment takes for my DWC.

I agree about the uniformity of moisture, the blumats are taking some dialing in but I am confident they will do a good job. I have no clue how those plants are thriving in such conditions, but I'm impressed. You don't have your own journal I've missed, do you? I wouldn't mind more details and what you're doing to combat the temps, but don't want to threadjack d9.

I did indeed notice an upwards EC spike after defoliation, as well as a decrease in overall solution uptake.
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
jjfoo,

The autopots definitely raise the question of a wet/dry cycle in plants, vs. the constant humidify levels promoted by the PPK.

My understanding suggests that the drying cycle creates 'negative' pressure within the root zone, drawing fresh air (oxygen) into the medium. The autopot article described a soil based medium, that may have a low O2 level when wet. By allowing a full absorbing of the water before pulsing a new batch of water into the system, the autopot valve may balance the tendency in the grow medium to be soggy (and all the bad shit that entails).

My understanding of the PPK system is that 02 levels in the root zone are maintained managing the characteristics of the medium--in D9s current incarnation, that's coco.

The globalbucket links look like a straight up DIY bucket system off any of these 'specialized' forums, and are pretty damn close to the original PPK design.

PPK for global hunger?
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
iS wrote: "You don't have your own journal I've missed, do you? I wouldn't mind more details and what you're doing to combat the temps, but don't want to threadjack d9."

I keep saying that I'm going to start my own thread, but keep polluting D9s instead. I've started clogging up OldOne's a bit too (I don't know if that makes anyone feel any better)...

As for the combating temps: I'm not doing anything.

Or, if I want to seem like I have a plan, I'm waiting for winter.

It wasn't my intention to run such high temps or low humidity, but it is working out to show that growth in a PPK is possible in 'bad' environmental conditions. (Or maybe it says that the genetic I'm working with is super resilient.)

My guess is that the 'idealized' environmental conditions I read about on the boards are based off of greenhouse studies. These probably use 'good practice' feeding schedules as a basis and then optimize temperature and humidity around those 'good practices'.

So we talk about Vapor Pressure Deficit stuff (p55 of this thread touches on it for a sec.)... and say that at such and such a temp with such and such a humidity, we optimize a plant's metabolism. (I think this is the source of Krusty et all's high humidity in veg theory. Of course, his theory is well supported by the pictures of buds large enough to knock out a mature yak.)

Another supporting piece to the temp question is the success of submerged-water-culture growers (DWC/rDWC). They create environments that need to keep temps under control for systematic reasons (dissolved 02 in solution, and the nasties), that might not be inherently necessary with other systems.

The fatman reported running DTW aero with temps in the nineties and low RH with no problems (aero = no 02 problems, dead res via bleach = no nasties.)

The factors involved in optimizing the environment for metabolism is (according to knna back on p.55ish) actually way more complex than that. (D9 remembers a detailed article that knna wrote on that subject, and asked for a link... but I must have missed it.) Everything effects everything.

So in my little garden, my girls seem okay in 'really high temps'. Like knna also said, it can be difficult to explain, but easy to practice.
 
M

*mistress*

Member
Veteran
temps...teehee

temps...teehee

temps...
pl@nts seem to function on average temperatures... they register 24h temps & changes of temps thru-out cycle. they can easily gro in 85-105*f temps. as long as lots of laminar & turbulent air flow is going 24h.
keeping media well aerated & lower temps than canopy top works. the plant registers ambient air temps, actual leaf temps, etc... this is registered both 'day' & 'night'. the difference, or 'diff' between day/night temps greatly influences growth, hormones, etc... higher avg temps actually promote more groeth - as long as night temps are kept high, too.

there are cultivars that thrive in high deserts, humid valleys, mountain peaks, etc... as long as the wind keep blowing. when air circulation is reduced, plants dont do well. they like 20% oxygen in atmosphere @ all tymes. less air flow = less oxygen.

if 'day' temp is 90, maybe run 80-85 @ night, close to zero-diff. this keep high metabolism rate. the graph is not linear. temp mods during season affect how stomata open/close, how fruit is signaled to swell, elongation ("stretch"), etc...avg 24h/wks temps @ +/-10*f between night/day, air flow 24/7. they require different temp/temp signals @ different groeth/fruiting stages. 'optimum' temps depends on cultivar (genotype)....also... cultivars adapt over tyme. is run same cultivar in same environment over/over, it 'acclimates' to environment. alos called adaptation, or evolution. either it adapt & thrive, or wither & perish. keep the 1 that does well in any temp.
:2cents:
 
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J

jjfoo

Member
ImaginaryFriend said:
iS wrote: "
The fatman reported running DTW aero with temps in the nineties and low RH with no problems (aero = no 02 problems, dead res via bleach = no nasties.)
Click to expand...

As I can remember, fatman also uses CO2 and that is why he raises temps and I remember him saying that plants at high temps with CO2 can use more K
 
I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
My reaction to that: Increased temps tend to accelerate reactions... so you had best be making sure that all the necessary components are available. In my little garden, the air exchanges often enough that my PPM stays around 600-800 un-supplemented. Maybe that's enough for this strain in this environment?
 
J

jjfoo

Member
My buddy does DWC and has had problems with just adding nutes/water and not having any drain. He says eventually the mix will turn yellow. He uses tap water. I've switched to RO and am looking forward to eliminating or minimizing waste.

I've heard people talk about simply reducing calcium when using tap water. Isn't the calcium in tap water calcium carbonate? Is this usable to a plant the same way say calcium nitrate is?
 
D

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
hey, jjfoo! welcome!

thanks for the links! i have not seen the "globalbuckets" yet.

my understanding on calcium carbonate is that the larger molecule is not taken up by the plant as readily.

also calcium carbonate in the presence of water forms calcium bi-carbonate, an even larger molecule.

probably outdoors these forms are broken up by the micro organisms in the soil.

with hydro we need to supply a more usable form for best results.

my tap water is loaded with calcium but i had a lot of trouble with it.

going to ro water with a good nutrient program seems to eliminate many problems.

jack's hydroponic special 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate at the 1/.67 ratio is designed for reverse osmosis or distilled water.

jrpeterslab.com recommends a water analysis only if you are not using ro water.

you can send them a water sample and 36 bucks and they will send you an analysis plus a dosing schedule designed around your water.

most large commercial growers do this as they cannot afford to make enough ro water.

later, d9
 
D

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
My last week's plant is dry at 14.56. This makes the last 6 consecutive plants average 15.66 oz's or 443.96 grams each.

I have been playing around with defoliation during veg and at 2-3 weeks I can see closer nodes and less overall height. It remains to be seen about yield.

Also, a few weeks ago I began experimentally defoliating plants at the onset of 12/12. Previously I had been starting at the end of stretch.

Well, all I can say is the results of this are dramatic. Tonight I had to defoliate again, just 2 weeks into stretch.

Last night I had a rude surprise when I opened the flower area. A large limb of a plant I was going to harvest in about 4 days had broken off during the dark period and on it's way down it took another one with it. I would say about 40% of the plants mass was hanging by pieces of bark. So we had to spend a couple of hours trimming that we hadn't planned on.

First 2 pics are the DF'ed plants in veg and second 2 are the plant DF'ed at onset of 12/12 and again at 2 weeks flower. It's hard to see with the hps's on but the bud count is ridiculous.
 
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I

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
D9,

Sorry to hear about your plant's growth exceeding their capacity to hold themselves together...

Nice to see the defoliated little girls. They're at week two and three of veg right now?

Any thoughts on the yield? Dropping the N, etc?

Are you hosting your pics on this site? The exploding-thumbnail format is pretty common on a lot of threads, but I don't really understand where it's coming from...

I'm thinning leaves and growth on a daily basis and hope to do through the tenth day of flower (or so).

I boosted P to try and induce stretch in the girls... I have such a dense canopy (even with thinning) that there isn't as much light penetration as I'd like, and there's plenty more light and room in the tent.

The girls this morning, right before bed time:


Shade leaf on the way to the compost:

 
D

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
IF, yes, those are week 2 and 3.

i have resumed calcium nitrate in flower as the plants were turning a hot lime color right in front of me. as soon as i started feeding the jack's/calcinit they darkened right up again. so far i have not gotten the burn again. this is at ec 1.8.

i just import the pics through their attachment thing. suddenly i'm allowed to do 10 at once.

i definitely need a better camera.

this DF'ing thing is about more than just light.

my original thinking was that DF'ing in veg would inhibit root growth but i've got roots coming out of every hole in both containers.

your plants are looking good.


hi, carl! no, i haven't used any yet but lately i've been breaking branches moving plants into the flower room and trying to squeeze through them. they do seem to be a little more fragile. i believe i'll try some. thanks
 
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