passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

extreegrowerrr, thank you and welcome!

hey, snowgro, you haven't caused any confusion. i was just trying to figure out what everyone was talking about.

if you do end up using the 3 gal rubbermaids you may not need much top water as you will not have more than 6" medium depth. turface, perlite, and coco all wick more than 6".

since you have ro water, do you intend to use jack's? 630 ppm jack's and 420 ppm calcium nitrate, 1050 total, is their ro water formula and works great in all phases of growth with unreal ph stability. i'm not using any ph adjusters at all.

all the "cannabis" nute manufacturers want you to use different formulas at different strengths at different points of growth, so your tendency will be to do that. i know i thought that way for a long time. but jack's grows the living hell out of pot at one strength. i'm running the whole show on this regime. people are running whole commercial greenhouse facilities on this stuff all day every day.

mistress, nyah, nyah, nyaah! guess what! i now have a dry weight to assign to that plant in the photo from post 594. 9 days from whacking and dried in a cool, dark room at around 45% rh. stems all snap.

are you ready? drum roll please!

12.53 zips. my absolute all time heaviest plant. it only took me 10 years to do this.

d9

 

[delta9nxs]

i forgot to mention that the "slip joint washer" i described on post #606 does not work. it held the screen on the sump/wick just fine dry but as soon as it got wet it slipped right off. back to plastic wire ties.

 

[*mistress*]

mistress,
you mentioned phasing out coco for perlite/turface.
Do you have any specifics on current experiments?
I like perlite, the ph buffering issues are worrysome.
1st run had ph swings. I attribute this mostly to operator ignorance.

coco stays wetter
perlyte + turphace require more watering
better drainage!

ph of perlyte dont change, maybe keep initial ph @ 5.0-5.5, as it drift up, generallyu, w/ nitrate nitrogen content of most ferts
over-all healthier plants in perlyte/turface, as long as ph more acid & cal + mag supplied lots & separately... wkly flush w/ both eps salts & cal-nit seem work well. on different days, for 12-24hrs

mistress and snowgro, are you guys both talking about sub-irrigated systems? there is no way to run either a continuous flow or a continuous drip on a sub-irrigated system and expect it to act like anything other than a drain. continuous flow is totally impossible and drip would have to be timed for intervals for the sub system to work. if you decide to put a timer on the continuous flow system you have just turned it into a pulse system.

& gals...
"no way" "impossible" of course continuous top-fed w/ run-off for sub-irry is possible!

like such:
make pond/shallow pool/trough. approx 4x4-6x6+. small pump in pond. pour fresh nutrient solution directly into trough/pond. nutrient solution stops being poured into trough when 2" level reached. usually 5 gal for 4 large plants. lasts 24-36hrs. pour in more nutrient solution...timer not needed...what needed is container w/ many, many holes for drainage & media that drain well!
the solution is recirculated via top feed/flow/drip - however it comes out of re-used 1/8" vinyl line, 24/24. container full of holes on bottom+sides. tried raising containers using nurserie bins, but found they prefer to be in 1-2" of solution, as long as container permits permeation of water & level only 1-2", which they drink in 1-2 day

since water used very quickly, nutrient remains fresh. bottom of media remain wet. preferably, flower not even began until roots grow out of containers into pond, meaning 10gal container fully colonized w/ roots...roots gro thru container & out into pond...

why considered "impossible"?

 

[superusa]

coco stays wetter
perlyte + turphace require more watering
better drainage!

ph of perlyte dont change, maybe keep initial ph @ 5.0-5.5, as it drift up, generallyu, w/ nitrate nitrogen content of most ferts
over-all healthier plants in perlyte/turface, as long as ph more acid & cal + mag supplied lots & separately... wkly flush w/ both eps salts & cal-nit seem work well. on different days, for 12-24hrs
& gals...
"no way" "impossible" of course continuous top-fed w/ run-off for sub-irry is possible!

like such:
make pond/shallow pool/trough. approx 4x4-6x6+. small pump in pond. pour fresh nutrient solution directly into trough/pond. nutrient solution stops being poured into trough when 2" level reached. usually 5 gal for 4 large plants. lasts 24-36hrs. pour in more nutrient solution...

timer not needed...what needed is container w/ many, many holes for drainage & media that drain well!

the solution is recirculated via top feed/flow/drip - however it comes out of re-used 1/8" vinyl line. container full of holes on bottom. tried raising containers using nurserie bins, but found they prefer to be in 1-2" of solution, as long as container permits permeation of water.

since water used very quickly, nutrient remains fresh. bottom of media remain wet. preferably, flower not even began until roots grow out of containers into pond, meaning 10gal container fully colonized w/ roots...roots gro thru container & out into pond...

why considered "impossible"?

I have done alot of things with perlite and/vermiculite. This idea you have is nice with the pool idea.

Individually you could use standard 3 or 5 gallon buckets with a drain 1-2" up from the bottom, the bucket filled with your perlite etc mix (i suggest screening the drain), and then a drip ring around the top. In this way you could hook several buckets to a res....leave the pump on continuously. If the buckets are raised up above the res level, then they will never fill more than the bottom inch, and you could continuously feed a high flow drip through the top. I bet you could grow some monsters like that.....

 

[*mistress*]

I have done alot of things with perlite and/vermiculite. This idea you have is nice with the pool idea.

Individually you could use standard 3 or 5 gallon buckets with a drain 1-2" up from the bottom, the bucket filled with your perlite etc mix (i suggest screening the drain), and then a drip ring around the top. In this way you could hook several buckets to a res....leave the pump on continuously. If the buckets are raised up above the res level, then they will never fill more than the bottom inch, and you could continuously feed a high flow drip through the top. I bet you could grow some monsters like that.....

no need to raise pl@nts, @ all...
in fact, they seem do better w/ container placed directly onto trough. w/ many, many holes in container & big enough trough, even 10 gals of solution only make 1-2" of water. can slightly tilt 1 side of trough, so can view actual water uptake better. tilted side will have >water... large(r) trough disperse large amount of water over larger area, which make for shallow displacement in vessel. never too wet, but always wet...they likey

so, the drain is the entire bottom 1-2" of the bucket. tried placing them onto upside-down nurserie trays, for space between trough & container. they like beter the 1-2" solution constant @ the bottom.

if left uncovered, algae form slightly. may need cleaning. if add h202, algae gr0 faster... only consideration: cleaning trough wkly... this usually done in any successful system though. tween20 help keep matter dislodged & easy to wet-vac out once displaced by surfacant...

fwiw, actually was very anti-machine, after soooo many bell+whistle of kbs/kfb, then aero-buckets, soooo many moon ago...

same system work well fed 1x/day, handwater, @ ~1/5 volume of container. interesting to note that plant seem drink same amount, wether hand-fed, or top fed continuously... ~1gal/plant/12-36hrs...

but, yes, if desire, can adjust levels & such, etc, etc,.... found that k.i.s.s. = leave on...

 

[superusa]

no need to raise pl@nts, @ all...
in fact, they seem do better w/ container placed directly onto trough. w/ many, many holes in container & big enough trough, even 10 gals of solution only make 1-2" of water. can slightly tilt 1 side of trough, so can view actual water uptake better. tilted side will have >water... large(r) trough disperse large amount of water over larger area, which make for shallow displacement in vessel. never too wet, but always wet...they likey

so, the drain is the entire bottom 1-2" of the bucket. tried placing them onto upside-down nurserie trays, for space between trough & container. they like beter the 1-2" solution constant @ the bottom.

if left uncovered, algae form slightly. may need cleaning. if add h202, algae gr0 faster... only consideration: cleaning trough wkly... this usually done in any successful system though. tween20 help keep matter dislodged & easy to wet-vac out once displaced by surfacant...

fwiw, actually was very anti-machine, after soooo many bell+whistle of kbs/kfb, then aero-buckets, soooo many moon ago...

same system work well fed 1x/day, handwater, @ ~1/5 volume of container. interesting to note that plant seem drink same amount, wether hand-fed, or top fed continuously... ~1gal/plant/12-36hrs...

but, yes, if desire, can adjust levels & such, etc, etc,.... found that k.i.s.s. = leave on...

Definitely agree that you can leave it in the pool. I was looking at it from an eye towards containment. I live in an apartment so I try to keep all fluids inside of either 1)res 2)buckets 3)feed/drain lines. Also, with the drains raised up from the bottom of the bucket, there will always be that 2" of water in the bottom, since the excess can't run out of the drain till it has filled up high enough. I might pass a link to this thread on to my pops. He loves perlite.

 

[delta9nxs]

Hey, superusa!

Mistress, I may be misunderstanding what you are describing but for a sub-irrigated system to work it has to have a period of time where upward capillary flow is allowed. If there is a steady, non interrupted downward stream this can't happen.

Otherwise the sub system acts like a drain only.

This is ok and will grow plants but you will not get the same wetted profile.

In my system the sub feed does most of the work as the top feed is intermittent.

The top volume in flower is only 32 oz's per day. In between top watering events the float valve in the control bucket runs over 100 drips per minute. That is all sub feed.

Remember the perched water table. In my design the pwt is 1.5” in diameter. In a five gallon bucket it is 10” in diameter. If you have a 1.5” high pwt in your design, where the entire bottom of the bucket is sitting in 1.5” of water, you not only have the pwt of a 5 gal bucket but you also have a pwt reserve supplied by the container the bucket is sitting in. As the pwt is only eliminated by evapo-transpiration you will never get rid of it.

The perched water table is the major cause of root rot and plant drowning. We have already discussed what happens to the roots as the pwt is made and eliminated.

The pwt in a 5 gal bucket at 1.5” depth is .54 gals or 69.12 oz's. The pwt in a 1.5” diameter pvc pipe is .01 gal or 1.28 oz's. A difference of 67.84 oz's. If nothing else this represents lost container volume, but it is also a health hazard.

But, I can see a continuously top watered system working fine if you wick away the pwt with either a cloth wick or a media wick. The run off can be captured and recirculated by pump.

i understand that a bucket sitting in a pool of water with a continuous top feed will work and will not become anaerobic if recirculated. but it is not a "sub-irrigated" system.

I know you don't put up photos but maybe a drawing would help. I might not be understanding everything properly.

d9

 

[*mistress*]

trough. ~200gal

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2923714&postcount=1

larger basin gives lower level of solution.

or...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1227565&postcount=1

containers. ~10 gal, w/ many holes. directly onto trough basin.

JUICY's Recirculating Madness @ http://a.imagehost.org/0067/4_7.jpg

2-4 per 1k.
flower not started until roots gr0 out of 10gal container & into nutrient solution in basin...

watering/feeding.
10gal/48h

generic ppms:
n03-189
nh4-7
n total-196
p-90
k-353
ca-151
mg-76
s-69 (there is more s in there than listed)
fe-1.5
si-61

total:
999

ph:
adjusted down to 5.0.

wkly, mini-flush
100% cal 12h.
100% mag 12h.

no root rot. flourish & grow out into trough

 

[delta9nxs]

hi, i'm sure it works, i'm not saying that it doesn't. all i'm saying is that it is not sub-irrigated as it will have a one way flow from the top.

d9

 

[SnowGro]

D9

Those 3 gal rubbermaids are the beezneez. Didn't know they existed TYVM!

I'll be running the Advanced Nutrients product that I have till it's used up. It's not RO specific, so I'll have to add calmag as well. The jack's is interesting.
Grats on the new record!

 

[*mistress*]

flow is lateral, too. thru holes in containers drawn by powerhead

 

[delta9nxs]

ok, maybe a little!

 

[HybridHydro]

2 grows ago, I used a passive system with 3/8ths nylon rope in 32 ounce plastic cups, adjusting the amount of water intake, by adding or removing rope as I went along, ended up using 3 individual ropes between 6 and 8 inches long per cup, with perlite/soiless mix and an air stone in the resevoir, which was a one foot square rubbermaid bin. It was nice because I could jam them close together, the cups helped keep branching to a minimum, they grew 2 & 1/2 to 3 feet tall and each popsicled into a nice single cola, about a 1/4z per plant in a 1 foot square space.

 

[*mistress*]

"12.35. my absolute all time heaviest plant. it only took me 10 years to do this."


from avg 8, to avg 11, to best ever @ 12+, in relatively short period. maybe, the graph shows sharp recent improvements. from 8 to 12 is ~33+% increase in productivity. positive #'s in most any field of endeavor.

 

[delta9nxs]

These are all the same plant. It's at day 19 of flower. What is remarkable about it is the size. Approx 57" tall from the medium. Not that tall, but it is 46" wide and 38" deep. These measurements do not express the density of the foliage.

I did not prep this plant for flower in my usual way, which involved thinning out the small interior growth that would normally produce fluff. The plant is entirely intact. Only 2 clone cuts have been removed.

It was vegged 7 weeks 16” from a bare 1k hortilux.

It was grown with one side presented to the light. It was never turned.

In flower it was placed between 2 cool tubed 1k hortilux bulbs as close as 8” hung vertically at the center of plant mass. Imagine the plant and bulbs as points on an equilateral triangle. Also left in one position, no turning.

It has been on the jack's hydro formula at one strength throughout life.

It has been in an “air-pruning” container for life.

There have been no stunting or stalling events since transplant.

I left the small interior bud sites intact as the plant will be defoliated in 2 days, approaching the end of stretch.

This thing is really large for it's age.

d9

 

[*mistress*]

nice plantee...teehee

nice plantee...teehee

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, hybridhydro! welcome! nice plants over in the defoliation thread!

mistress, thank you! that plant will be a record breaker!

 

[HybridHydro]

 

[delta9nxs]

these are the "after" shots of the same plant. i just posted them on the defoliation thread but thought they should go here too.

 

[Carl Carlson]

one question that is possibly redundant (i.e. you mentioned only taking two cuts), but did you top that plant?