D
passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
the plot gets thicker.
i have found a small box, about 6" x 8" with a pull out switch just under the rear deck.
so the wire from the main panel, which is also 6awg, runs to this pull out switch first and then to the shop.
this increases the distance.
as the crow flies about 90 ft.
via the serpentine path they have here it would be about 120-140 ft.
so it looks to me that i have two options.
option a is to use the 60 amp circuit to the shop as is for as much as i can get and then wire direct to outside plugs and lights and run them buried to make up the difference.
i could also split the dryer line and not use the dryer during flowering. i can get it out of the house easily through the dryer duct and then bury it also.
or i have option b, which is to call an electrician, which is the only sane thing to do.
i think i can get someone sympathetic out here but we are trying to avoid this type of compromise entirely.
i would rather do it myself.
i have found a small box, about 6" x 8" with a pull out switch just under the rear deck.
so the wire from the main panel, which is also 6awg, runs to this pull out switch first and then to the shop.
this increases the distance.
as the crow flies about 90 ft.
via the serpentine path they have here it would be about 120-140 ft.
so it looks to me that i have two options.
option a is to use the 60 amp circuit to the shop as is for as much as i can get and then wire direct to outside plugs and lights and run them buried to make up the difference.
i could also split the dryer line and not use the dryer during flowering. i can get it out of the house easily through the dryer duct and then bury it also.
or i have option b, which is to call an electrician, which is the only sane thing to do.
i think i can get someone sympathetic out here but we are trying to avoid this type of compromise entirely.
i would rather do it myself.
i do have another option i hadn't thought about before. i could drill straight into the house panel from outside and using conduit and sealant run a second line to the shop.
forgot to add that all the 6 awg wire is in 3/4" flexible plastic conduit. no real sharp turns.
forgot to add that all the 6 awg wire is in 3/4" flexible plastic conduit. no real sharp turns.
There is no neutral coming from the main panel. I totally missed that in the pic.
While stuff obviously works now when plugged in with no neutral, I have to tell you what I would do to protect Mr. and Mrs. D9 and that is have a neutral from the main panel.
To do it right there should be 4-wire coming from the main in the house. There should be a grounding rod at the garage and connected to the ground bar in the sub-panel.
There should be a connection between the neutral bus bar in the house panel and in the sub-panel in the form of a conductor (wire) which there is not now.
If you replace the wire (or at least add another wire to act as a neutral between the house panel and the garage), you remove the tie-bar or connection between the neutral bus bar and the ground bus bar in the sub-panel in the shop.
****SAFETY WARNING***** If you run a new wire from the main panel in the house, the NEUTRAL and GROUND bus bars in the SUB-PANEL in the shop should NOT BE BONDED. (you would remove what appears to be a strap between them at the top of the sub-panel).
If you leave the setup as is, then leave the neutral and ground bus bars connected as they now appear to be.
(Do not leave the sub-panel being fed as it is now (No neutral from the house) and remove the connection between the neutral and ground bus bars in the sub-panel)
*****end warning (but still be safe)*****
It looks like if the distance between your main panel in the house and the sub-panel in the shop is 150' or less, 6 AWG can pull 55 AMPS maximum and if we multiply by 0.80 we get 44 AMPS continuous.
With that cable you can have 44 AMPS @ 240V or 88 AMPS @ 120 V of load. You already have a 60 AMP breaker at the house panel so once you get the hots out of that 100 AMP breaker in the sub-panel and tied to the proper lugs at the top of each hot bus you can run 88 AMPS @ 120V worth of loads.
you have: 88 AMPS 120V available (unless you are further away than 150')
you need: 95 AMPS 120V...
I would do everything I could to replace that wire from the house.
I hate to keep probing for info; I wish I could just tell you exactly what is needed (IMO) at once but.....
could you post how far the sub-panel is from the main panel?
To run the loads that were discussed in this thread a few posts back (95 AMPS 120V or 47.5 AMPS 240V) you would be looking at 60 AMP service from the main panel (x0.8 = 48 AMPS). You already have the breaker for it but need 4 AWG wire.
If you ever need any more power you would be better off going to a larger breaker in the main panel and larger wire....
I'd recheck your power requirement estimate because the stuff covered a few posts back that totals 95 AMPS may not include some equipment that will very much need to be plugged in
Lets also get a firm number on the distance then use the distance and total power requirement (with a little thrown in extra for your work stereo or lava lamp) and we can lock down a wire size for that installation.
I wonder if you would consider, if you have to run new cable anyway (which you do for 95 AMPS 120V), just installing a new sub-panel where you really want it and for your use only?
You would leave the existing in place, not really touch it in fact (just put it back together as you found it) and then grab a square D or siemens for <$100 and then you can take it with you if you ever move. If the breakers for a newer panel are much cheaper than the cutler hammer (or brand of sub-panel in place now) then it's a no brainer. You can cut some corners in terms of routing the wires (and not risk life and limb) and I suspect you have more important concerns over inspection than your electrical setup!
It would be a super clean, super fast installation if you think that makes sense for you. Hell, mount the panel right outside the grow room and have short runs for each circuit... the possibilities are endless! (tho this option may not make sense for you)
just saw Stagehand's awesome post above
*I'm using an online wire size calculator that always seems a bit conservative to the tune of about 5 amps. I'm ok with that as a bit bigger is always better. One thing with wire sizing is that there is always a minimum size wire for a given amperage that is needed no matter how short the run, even if the circuit is only 5' in length. When you get past a certain length then you have to go to a thicker wire. Like for example 8 AWG is generally considered 40 AMP or 45 AMP cable... but once you run out a long length you actually have to move to 6 AWG or larger to move that 40 AMPS.
i just walked off the route that i would use for the run and it is 180 ft. i can get out of the main panel at the bottom of the panel and get it through the house and out inconspicuously. i will then have to bury about 80 ft before i can get into the shop immediately adjacent to where i want to put all my connections.
so what kind and size of wire do i need and what kind of sub-panel.
if i understand you correctly i can use a 100 amp 240 breaker at the house panel and go to the lugs on the sub panel and then put a bunch of 120 breakers on it as needed.
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disciple
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disciple
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disciple
stagehand099
Member
A messenger is a steel cable that rides with the electrical cable and allows the cable to be mechanically tightened with a come-along or other ratcheting cable-puller to take up the sag in long spans. I don't know if you could hang 100 ft of #2 awg without a pole midspan.....you probably can. That would sure save all that evil ditch witching action. But for excellent stealth, you prolly want to bury it.
Thanks for the reflectix answer. What type of screw do you use with it?
stagehand
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disciple
fuck
root aphids
fuck
gognats?
met52?
fucky fuck
Concerned with dead root aphids messing with ph etc.
dead is better than living for sure.
root aphids
fuck
gognats?
met52?
fucky fuck
Concerned with dead root aphids messing with ph etc.
dead is better than living for sure.
1" coarse thread drywall screws with a #8 flat washer.
all day taping yesterday and i'm still not done.
disciple, thanks for the detailed list of stuff. so the 1 awg is just a one conductor wire and i need three lengths. color coding doesn't matter? if so i can buy a 500' roll.
homedepot doesn't show it on their site. i will probably have to go to an electrical supply.
can this wire be buried as is? or do i need conduit with it too?
homedepot doesn't show it on their site. i will probably have to go to an electrical supply.
can this wire be buried as is? or do i need conduit with it too?
stagehand099
Member
I'm not positive but I think the size bigger than # 2 awg is 1/0 THHN. It is stranded wire, not solid conductor, I believe. Its pronounced like "one ought", if you're asking for it. It will conduct 125 amps. Its expensive as hell, too, but thats relative, I guess.
You need to go to an electrical supply house and ask them if # 2 awg THHN will be sufficient for 100 amps at 180 feet run from the main panel. You would save good money by using that if you can. Even if you buy it at HD or Lowes, you will get a more accurate answer from those guys than the weekend warriors working at the depot.
I think anything going in the ground needs to be in conduit to be to code, but not positive on that.
Off to buy reflectix now. You taping with aluminum tape?
stagehand
you will have to go to lowes for the reflectix. i don't think hd has it. while in lowes do not buy their no good 3-m brand aluminum tape. it is shit. hard to peel the backing off and it's thin, breaks easily.
the best tape i've found for this yet is the 7.50 per 50 yd roll stuff from wally's in the paint department. it's got a picture of a duck on it.
i would like to drop a size on that cable. the preliminary price i've gotten on the 1 awg 500' roll is 1200 bucks.
if i suspend it i can make it much shorter than the buried route.
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...&langId=-1&storeId=10051&superSkuId=202895702
i just found this. would this work if i can get the run down to about 120 ft?
i just found this. would this work if i can get the run down to about 120 ft?
stagehand099
Member
Yes, that would work great, with the caveat that you need to ask a pro if a run that long is still cool, without dropping down a size. I saw on your link above that #1 awg THHN is $872.00/500'. # 2 is rated to conduct 100 amps, from my research anyway. That wire is not rated for direct burial so if in the ground it must go in conduit. This is heavy stuff to suspend... 3 lengths=very effin' heavy. You will need to look into adding a messenger to it with clamps or something. Then you must have a really strong corner clamp/eye bolt setup on the 2 endpoints. Tied into the structural roof members. Or it would pull the fascia right off when cranking down on it. Possibly/probably need a post in concrete at each end of the span instead of tying into the roof of each building. A heavy duty come-along and a lot of elbow grease. A 6 x 6 post in concrete at the midspan might be needed as well. Never done it so I ain't sure exactly how the pros would do it.
If money is tight, you can do this for sure. All of it. But time is money, too. If money is not a great worry, you could get an electrician to run the aerial cable and drop it down the outside wall of the shop and tell him that you need to save up some jack for the rest of the wiring job. And then do the rest of it yourself. If you say its going to be a complete woodworking shop down the road, I don't think he would be suspicious at all. But I wouldn't let them see that shiny new room.....
Remember, man, all really worthwhile endeavors are usually a frickin' PITA to accomplish. Good luck.
stagehand
ph is the least of your worries.. they will slime your shit right up..
yep root rot
